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Old 09-03-2017, 01:11 AM   #351
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Default Re: The Leaks and Spoilers discussion (*MAJOR SPOILER WARNING*)

The Night King would have broken through the wall anyway, it just would've taken longer. And had Jon not gone over and gotten the wight he would not have been able to convince Dany or Cersei of the real threat. So even though it wasn't the greatest plan it was successful.

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Old 09-03-2017, 02:10 AM   #352
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Did anyone else notice that as Cersei watches Jamie cross the map room towalk out on her, her right hand (twice) starts to move slightly up towards her stomach, almost as if she's about to reach for her baby? It looks totally unnatural and there's no way Lena Hedley just did this for no reason.

I'm wondering if the stress of Jamie leaving was the prompt for the miscarriage and they cut the scene/postponed it until next season?
I think that could be one possible route, if they did actually film those scenes already.

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The Night King would have broken through the wall anyway, it just would've taken longer. And had Jon not gone over and gotten the wight he would not have been able to convince Dany or Cersei of the real threat. So even though it wasn't the greatest plan it was successful.
This definitely.

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Old 09-03-2017, 11:56 AM   #353
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The Night King would have broken through the wall anyway, it just would've taken longer. And had Jon not gone over and gotten the wight he would not have been able to convince Dany or Cersei of the real threat. So even though it wasn't the greatest plan it was successful.
I agree. I don't buy into everyone's "the plan was stupid and poor writing" idea. Does everything have to go completely right for the heroes in the story? The epitome of GoT is things getting worse before they get better, and usually the bad guys winning out early. If Jon and co. had gone north and the only cost was Thoros, that would have come across as too convenient and easy, and people would have complained anyway. I get the logic of needing to convince Cersei. I think the thing that makes Beyond the Wall harder to accept is how quickly things unfold...Gendry>Raven>Dragonstone>Dany arrival. Which even bugged me a bit, but in the relative scope of the show and its general perfection, cutting a few timeline corners right now isn't a huge crime.

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Old 09-03-2017, 12:02 PM   #354
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The Night King would have broken through the wall anyway, it just would've taken longer. And had Jon not gone over and gotten the wight he would not have been able to convince Dany or Cersei of the real threat. So even though it wasn't the greatest plan it was successful.
Agreed. Without doing this it's just a slow but sure defeat, at least for all of the North which Jon is leader of.

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Old 09-03-2017, 04:01 PM   #355
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The Night King would have broken through the wall anyway, it just would've taken longer. And had Jon not gone over and gotten the wight he would not have been able to convince Dany or Cersei of the real threat. So even though it wasn't the greatest plan it was successful.
Yeah, I agree with this. If anything, Jon got Jaime to believe, and now he is finally opening his eyes to the kind of person Cersei is.

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Old 09-03-2017, 09:06 PM   #356
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Default Re: The Leaks and Spoilers discussion (*MAJOR SPOILER WARNING*)

So does anyone know the reason on why the NK NOW wants to take over Westeros in this particular winter and not the previous winters?

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Old 09-04-2017, 12:33 AM   #357
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I agree. I don't buy into everyone's "the plan was stupid and poor writing" idea. Does everything have to go completely right for the heroes in the story? The epitome of GoT is things getting worse before they get better, and usually the bad guys winning out early. If Jon and co. had gone north and the only cost was Thoros, that would have come across as too convenient and easy, and people would have complained anyway. I get the logic of needing to convince Cersei. I think the thing that makes Beyond the Wall harder to accept is how quickly things unfold...Gendry>Raven>Dragonstone>Dany arrival. Which even bugged me a bit, but in the relative scope of the show and its general perfection, cutting a few timeline corners right now isn't a huge crime.
The only thing that really bugged me about the episode was Benjen appearing out of nowhere to then die immediately. The Snow Squad was on that frozen lake for at least a day, so there was no reason why he couldn't have shown up before that. I think it would've made more sense for him to appear earlier while the team was searching for the wight, guide them, and then die in the subsequent battle.

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Old 09-04-2017, 01:11 AM   #358
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The only thing that really bugged me about the episode was Benjen appearing out of nowhere to then die immediately. The Snow Squad was on that frozen lake for at least a day, so there was no reason why he couldn't have shown up before that. I think it would've made more sense for him to appear earlier while the team was searching for the wight, guide them, and then die in the subsequent battle.
we don't know if Benjen died. I don't think we've seen the last of him. I think the zombies incapacitated him, and the NKing will revive him as another white walker.

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Old 09-04-2017, 01:45 AM   #359
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I believe D&D confirmed he was dead.

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Old 09-04-2017, 02:27 AM   #360
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I think they cryogenically froze him until Dr. Evil returns.

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Old 09-04-2017, 02:34 AM   #361
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The NK looks cool but his plan is lame af to me. He seems to actually know what the hell is going on, so making everyone into a goddamn popsicle zombie would be what to him? Mindless zombies. I don't know, maynes, he seems like a dude who would get bored by that. He is just another way to move the plot along, which is fine, but his end all plan still so lame. lol

This whole world domination thing! Yeah, but you still need some ants to step on every now and then. I just imagine him sitting on his iced throne and surrounded by corpses with their jaws on the floor. Some kingdom. Lawd.

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Old 09-04-2017, 01:11 PM   #362
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I believe D&D confirmed he was dead.
source?

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Old 09-04-2017, 01:18 PM   #363
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Default Re: The Leaks and Spoilers discussion (*MAJOR SPOILER WARNING*)

Benjen killed all the wights, then took out the White Walkers, Night King and his wight dragon (and rebuilt the wall) before breakfast. Standard morning for him.

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Old 09-04-2017, 05:02 PM   #364
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Technically he was already dead.

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Old 09-04-2017, 06:20 PM   #365
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I didn't like the way Benjen appeared and disappeared. I wanted more of an explanation of what uncle has been up to

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Old 09-04-2017, 10:49 PM   #366
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Benjen Ex Machina

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Old 09-04-2017, 10:50 PM   #367
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The NK looks cool but his plan is lame af to me. He seems to actually know what the hell is going on, so making everyone into a goddamn popsicle zombie would be what to him? Mindless zombies. I don't know, maynes, he seems like a dude who would get bored by that. He is just another way to move the plot along, which is fine, but his end all plan still so lame. lol

This whole world domination thing! Yeah, but you still need some ants to step on every now and then. I just imagine him sitting on his iced throne and surrounded by corpses with their jaws on the floor. Some kingdom. Lawd.
He's just a plot device and an extra, just "White Walker #1". He doesn't really count as a character IMO.

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Old 09-04-2017, 11:15 PM   #368
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Technically he was already dead.
if he was already dead then there's no need to kill him again.

having him come back as a zombie wouldn't feel as impactful as if he comes back as a white walker

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Old 09-04-2017, 11:51 PM   #369
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source?
The inside the episode for Beyond the Wall, they talk about how "Coldhands" achieved peace from the limbo he was stuck in by dying to save his nephew.

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Old 09-05-2017, 01:38 PM   #370
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The NK looks cool but his plan is lame af to me. He seems to actually know what the hell is going on, so making everyone into a goddamn popsicle zombie would be what to him? Mindless zombies. I don't know, maynes, he seems like a dude who would get bored by that. He is just another way to move the plot along, which is fine, but his end all plan still so lame. lol

This whole world domination thing! Yeah, but you still need some ants to step on every now and then. I just imagine him sitting on his iced throne and surrounded by corpses with their jaws on the floor. Some kingdom. Lawd.
I'd say that it's about the great war between R'hllor and the Great Other, meaning that it's really a struggle between gods. The Night King could be seen as just the highest "priest" in service of the Great Other, it's not about personal goals for him.

Of course all of what Melisandre and the other red priests say (and there's more statements in the books) could be wrong, but since they seem to have power and their prophecies seem to be true (although they have been misinterpreted) so I'll treat it as true until it changes.

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Old 09-05-2017, 06:43 PM   #371
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The NK looks cool but his plan is lame af to me. He seems to actually know what the hell is going on, so making everyone into a goddamn popsicle zombie would be what to him? Mindless zombies. I don't know, maynes, he seems like a dude who would get bored by that. He is just another way to move the plot along, which is fine, but his end all plan still so lame. lol

This whole world domination thing! Yeah, but you still need some ants to step on every now and then. I just imagine him sitting on his iced throne and surrounded by corpses with their jaws on the floor. Some kingdom. Lawd.
Think of why the Children of the Forest made him. They were at war with the First Men. Out of desperation they turned a First Man into the NK. Intending the NK to destroy the First Men. But the Children werent able to control him and he created other white walkers and wights and subjugated the North creating a perpetual winter. This led to the Long Night. Eventually the Childeen and First Men seem to have locked the White Walkers in the North behind the Wall.

I dont think the NK wants a kingdom. He is like a virus. He was created to destroy mankind. And he is trying to do what he was created to do. Anything in his way is destroyed or turned into a wight. I think that makes him much much more frightening. He isnt evil. He isny greedy. He doesnt think in terms of right and wrong. And he can't be bargained with.

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Old 09-05-2017, 08:37 PM   #372
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So...the only leak that never panned out was 'Coldhands at Craster's' from season 4, yes?

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Old 09-06-2017, 12:11 AM   #373
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I'd say that it's about the great war between R'hllor and the Great Other, meaning that it's really a struggle between gods. The Night King could be seen as just the highest "priest" in service of the Great Other, it's not about personal goals for him.

Of course all of what Melisandre and the other red priests say (and there's more statements in the books) could be wrong, but since they seem to have power and their prophecies seem to be true (although they have been misinterpreted) so I'll treat it as true until it changes.
I don't think that there is a "Great Other" in the show.

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Old 09-06-2017, 12:21 AM   #374
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Yeah they've shied away from that stuff in the show. The White Walkers in general seem to significantly different from the mythology the books hint.

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Old 09-06-2017, 05:38 AM   #375
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I don't think honk there isn't a "Great Other" in the show.
He's been mentioned by Melisandre in the show so he's there. How much they'll play it up is a different matter but it will still be there to explain the Night King if they don't give him more motivation in the final season.

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