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Old 02-26-2018, 11:34 AM   #26
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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I don't find the character outdated. My favourite Superman stories centre around moral implications of his actions/inaction, when he should/shouldn't become involved - and there are certainly stories where he gets it wrong. He knows he's not perfect - something he'll say to anyone who'll listen - but he strives for an ideal, both for himself and for the world as an inspiration. That shouldn't be an outdated concept IMO.
I don't think he's outdated but he seems like the "perfect" being. He has every power you can think of, he's gorgeous, his biggest nemesis is a regular human with no powers.........I don't know. He seems to win when he feels like it. That's the perception of him.

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Old 02-26-2018, 12:10 PM   #27
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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I don't think he's outdated but he seems like the "perfect" being. He has every power you can think of, he's gorgeous, his biggest nemesis is a regular human with no powers.........I don't know. He seems to win when he feels like it. That's the perception of him.
"nobody likes a showoff." - you're right though, Superman seems unstoppable really, short of having Kryptonite thrown at him...

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Old 02-26-2018, 12:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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"nobody likes a showoff." - you're right though, Superman seems unstoppable really, short of having Kryptonite thrown at him...
Even with kryptonite he's still unstoppable. Think about it: if it really was his true weakness, there's no way he should be able to beat Metallo, yet he digs in deep and overcomes it.

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Old 02-26-2018, 01:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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I don't think he's outdated but he seems like the "perfect" being. He has every power you can think of, he's gorgeous, his biggest nemesis is a regular human with no powers.........I don't know. He seems to win when he feels like it. That's the perception of him.
I think that's largely a carry-over from a time when he was portrayed like that. But writers have been putting more depth, complexity, and character work into his stories for years.

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Old 03-12-2018, 10:20 AM   #30
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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Nope. Spiderman will never be replaced. Also while iron man is popular now. Lets see how popular he will be once RDJ is gone. Sorry but I don't see Batman, supermanor spiderman ever being replaced. Spiderman is the highest selling hero ever in merch.
Also Black panther was always well known. he just never had the push like he does now.
It will always be Batman "DC" Spider man "Marvel"and Superman...
However I don't see Superman as DC rather in the Center and Foundation of both worlds and all Superhero Worlds.
batman because he will represent the Human who can be a Superhero without Powers..The Closest to our reality.
Spider man for the exact opposite..The Sci-Fi hero with uncanny powers
Superman always by Default because he is credited as the First and in this I dont see Superman as DC but as the Universal SuperHero.
Who just happends to be in DC but in every hero no matter what company.

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Old 03-12-2018, 11:35 AM   #31
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Default Re: A new big 3?

Black Panther has now passed $1B. Has Superman done that? I'm not saying he's not famous, I do think Superman is more famous, but I think a lot of Marvel characters are way more popular than him and it shows in film receipts.

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Old 03-12-2018, 11:48 AM   #32
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Default Re: A new big 3?

The question of popularity is this:

Will Black Panther T-Shirts be outselling Superman T-Shirts 5 years from now? 10? Will Camp Waconda erect giant panther statues and have a yearly celebration where people come from all over the world to celebrate the simple *idea* of Black Panther, year after year, decade after decade?

Obviously Superman movies aren't popular right now, neither are Batman movies and Spider-Man:Homecoming isn't the best or brightest or most profitable even in the MCU stable, but the fact that Superman was the most popular superhero for 30+ years means something. A lot of times when people say "most popular" and "big three" they're talking about 'most popular of all time,' not necessarily 'most popular right now.'

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Old 03-12-2018, 01:36 PM   #33
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If people want to live in the past and ignore the present, that's up to them. The past means something but the pieces on the board have definitely been rearranged going forward. The antiquated notion of 'Big 3' needs to change. Time to make more room at the table.

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Old 03-12-2018, 05:58 PM   #34
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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The question of popularity is this:

Will Black Panther T-Shirts be outselling Superman T-Shirts 5 years from now? 10? Will Camp Waconda erect giant panther statues and have a yearly celebration where people come from all over the world to celebrate the simple *idea* of Black Panther, year after year, decade after decade?

Obviously Superman movies aren't popular right now, neither are Batman movies and Spider-Man:Homecoming isn't the best or brightest or most profitable even in the MCU stable, but the fact that Superman was the most popular superhero for 30+ years means something. A lot of times when people say "most popular" and "big three" they're talking about 'most popular of all time,' not necessarily 'most popular right now.'
Hasn't IronMan outsold Superman in the last 10 years in products?

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Old 03-12-2018, 06:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: A new big 3?

Moving forward into Phase 4 and beyond, I think Black Panther, Captain Marvel and Doctor Strange will be the new big three as the focus shifts away from Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor. Spider-Man is there too, but considering his popularity transcends beyond the MCU and he's still partially owned by Sony, I didn't include him in this. He'll forever be the most popular Marvel hero anyway. Probably.

But I can see T'Challa being one of the most popular hero in the MCU post-Avengers 4 not including Spidey. Aside from how popular his character was in Civil War and the massive success of his first solo film, as a character he has qualities of the current big three. He is of royal blood like Thor, he has the physical enhancements and moral fiber of Captain America, and he has superior technological advancements like Iron Man. What's not to like?

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Old 03-12-2018, 07:50 PM   #36
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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Hasn't IronMan outsold Superman in the last 10 years in products?
Y'know, I would assume not, based on just seeing more Superman merch more places, but it'd be interesting to verify that somehow.

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Old 03-12-2018, 08:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: A new big 3?

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Y'know, I would assume not, based on just seeing more Superman merch more places, but it'd be interesting to verify that somehow.
I can't prove it either but I can guarantee you that he has. Superman is seen as corny by today's generation. Part of it is WB's fault with everything centering on Batman.

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Old 03-12-2018, 11:49 PM   #38
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Nope. Spiderman will never be replaced. Also while iron man is popular now. Lets see how popular he will be once RDJ is gone. Sorry but I don't see Batman, supermanor spiderman ever being replaced. Spiderman is the highest selling hero ever in merch.
Also Black panther was always well known. he just never had the push like he does now.
True, based purely on merchandice, Spidy tops everyone. However, just from comics, practically ALL the X titles and the avengers, routinely sold out at most every comic store i knew as a kid, compared to spidey.

Now that is just MY perception. Pity doing a bing search for "Top comic selling superhero" just pulls up stories for THIS years sales...

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It's not so much about the Big 3 as for the notion that the DC brand is getting stale and constantly losing ground. If i go out there and ask 100 people from the street to name me 10 superheroes most of them will name 6-7 Marvel ones and 3-4 DC ones.

Characters like Deadpool, Panther, Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Avengers, Guardians are becoming integral to pop culture and DV has the same old trinity on the forefront. How many DC characters have broken out in the past 20 years?
That's a good point. Most fans imo these days are that way CAUSE of the films, not just comics.. But in the 70-90s (early to mid), most of the fans WERE from comics, ergo knew more heroes imo than most people these days who DON'T get comics, and just watch the films do.

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Black Panther has now passed $1B. Has Superman done that? I'm not saying he's not famous, I do think Superman is more famous, but I think a lot of Marvel characters are way more popular than him and it shows in film receipts.
But that 1 bil is just from the film. How much over the 60+ years of superman's comics has he sold?

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Old 03-13-2018, 06:33 AM   #39
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True, based purely on merchandice, Spidy tops everyone. However, just from comics, practically ALL the X titles and the avengers, routinely sold out at most every comic store i knew as a kid, compared to spidey.

Now that is just MY perception. Pity doing a bing search for "Top comic selling superhero" just pulls up stories for THIS years sales...



That's a good point. Most fans imo these days are that way CAUSE of the films, not just comics.. But in the 70-90s (early to mid), most of the fans WERE from comics, ergo knew more heroes imo than most people these days who DON'T get comics, and just watch the films do.


But that 1 bil is just from the film. How much over the 60+ years of superman's comics has he sold?
You guys keep going back 60 years, I'm talking about the last 10-15
years. Wilt Chamberlain was considered the GOAT at one point but then Jordan came along and surpassed him. Isn't it possible that some guys have passed Superman? Batman and Spiderman are still the top dogs, I agree but I just don't see Superman as being that beloved any more.

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Old 03-13-2018, 08:25 AM   #40
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Default Re: A new big 3?

The fact that DC makes crappy movie after crappy movie but people keep showing up anyway tells us something about the difference between long-term and short-term popularity.

But things do shift and change over time. When I was a kid, Spider-man was an upstart. My parents had no idea who he was. But now he's part of the old-guard. My son grew up with him, and his kids will know Spider-Man as somebody who has always been huge.

If Black Panther continues to get great films for the next 20 years, he'll start to get that cross-generational appeal, and he could take his place among the other top characters... or a few lousy films could see him drop back to where people will say: "Remember that year Black Panther was the big thing?"

There are a lot of heroes out there, but a limited number of films and top-selling comic books. So the biggest films and the best comic-book talent gets put on the big characters and that tends to keep those characters at the top.

As a Fantastic Four fan, I certainly hope their long-term popularity is able to overcome the crappy Fox films to allow them to get back to their place, but that will require faith and investment from Marvel.

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Old 03-13-2018, 11:52 AM   #41
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The fact that DC makes crappy movie after crappy movie but people keep showing up anyway tells us something about the difference between long-term and short-term popularity.
The didn't show up for Justice League, lol.

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Old 03-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #42
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Black Panther has now passed $1B. Has Superman done that? I'm not saying he's not famous, I do think Superman is more famous, but I think a lot of Marvel characters are way more popular than him and it shows in film receipts.
Most people would probably still say that the best Supes films are the Donner films done wayyyy back in the seventies. A couple of Richard Pryor and Nuclear Man films since then we got a forgettable Superman Returns and bitterly divided MOS. Supes hasn't gotten any favors on the big screen. Yet he is still prominent in animation as well as live action TV.

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Old 03-13-2018, 01:06 PM   #43
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Most people would probably still say that the best Supes films are the Donner films done wayyyy back in the seventies. A couple of Richard Pryor and Nuclear Man films since then we got a forgettable Superman Returns and bitterly divided MOS. Supes hasn't gotten any favors on the big screen. Yet he is still prominent in animation as well as live action TV.
I think this is because fans know Superman better than the studio and directors do.

Fans know that Superman is an unapologetic, unambiguous good guy who isn't conflicted or questioning his place in the world.

But the studios are afraid to make that film. They think that idea is dated and people don't want it, so they keep trying to 'improve' Superman and they try to make him into the cliche' of the superhero who is burdened with superherodom.

But the fans know who he really is and they keep showing up because they love that character and hope to see him again - despite being disappointed so many times.

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Old 03-13-2018, 04:06 PM   #44
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You guys keep going back 60 years, I'm talking about the last 10-15
years. Wilt Chamberlain was considered the GOAT at one point but then Jordan came along and surpassed him. Isn't it possible that some guys have passed Superman? Batman and Spiderman are still the top dogs, I agree but I just don't see Superman as being that beloved any more.
But if you are taking Marvel in as its totality, you DO need to go back through comics, not just films..

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Old 03-13-2018, 05:22 PM   #45
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DC's big three is the Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman trinity, no question. They're the most popular characters in the real world and in universe they edge out MM, Cyborg and the multiple Flashes/Green Lanterns as the biggest heroes in the Justice League. It's been that way since the 1940s, probably won't ever change.

Marvel's different. Pre-MCU their most popular characters were probably Spider-Man, Wolverine and Hulk. Nowadays Iron Man is probably more popular than Wolverine or Hulk, Thor/Cap aren't far behind them either and give Black Panther another couple of films and who knows. In universe though, Cap, Iron Man and Thor are the leading Avengers and definitely the closest equivalents Marvel has to the DC trinity.

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Old 03-17-2018, 12:37 PM   #46
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Default Re: A new big 3?

RoboCop made more money than Superman IV in 1987.

Is RoboCop more popular than Superman?

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Old 03-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #47
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IRON FIST will be among the top 3.

I can sense it with my chi

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Old 03-17-2018, 12:49 PM   #48
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SPIDERMAN will probably always be #1 and Batman will challenge him for that.

#3 will always be rotational. It seems now that it's Iron Man, but maybe in 5 years it's Black Panther or Captain Marvel or maybe Hulk gets a resurgence.

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Old 03-17-2018, 12:50 PM   #49
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DC's big three is the Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman trinity, no question. They're the most popular characters in the real world and in universe they edge out MM, Cyborg and the multiple Flashes/Green Lanterns as the biggest heroes in the Justice League. It's been that way since the 1940s, probably won't ever change.

Marvel's different. Pre-MCU their most popular characters were probably Spider-Man, Wolverine and Hulk. Nowadays Iron Man is probably more popular than Wolverine or Hulk, Thor/Cap aren't far behind them either and give Black Panther another couple of films and who knows. In universe though, Cap, Iron Man and Thor are the leading Avengers and definitely the closest equivalents Marvel has to the DC trinity.
How does The Flash compare to WW when it comes to popularity or fandom?

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Old 03-17-2018, 04:24 PM   #50
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RoboCop made more money than Superman IV in 1987.

Is RoboCop more popular than Superman?
It wasn't hard for any film imo, to beat out box office takes of that crap known as Supe 4..

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