The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > TV Series > The Defenders

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2018, 09:05 PM   #176
SPO2 Dalisay
Vigilante
 
SPO2 Dalisay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Safe House
Posts: 809
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
The bolded is all that matters here, the rest is all your speculation. Stark knew they were going in for a fight
What do you mean "again"? This is the first time you've tried this rebuttal since every other time all you've said is "ign is crap" - and anyways, I got no reason to believe that the scale on the marvel website isn't overall in line with the MCU, I don't see why it wouldn't be

I've already pointed out sections in the media where Luke's strength trumps Cap's, so I'm just gonna have to repeat myself; Cap struggled to break open a locked door on a helicarrier, meanwhile Luke kicked down a set of metal bars blocking his path. Cap can kick a man and send them flying in the air, meanwhile Luke flicks a man and knocks him out cold.

This is all it comes down to man. There's nothing else to be said here and I'm glad we can at least agree on this.
We are all speculating, giving theories, ideals filing in the blanks were a movie or TV show can't because there is no time.

Now you think that Stark would just snap up everybody who was strong. In that case why didn't he get Secretary Ross to get the 82nd Airborne to help?

My theory, he wasn't going to fight. And when they did fight as the Scarlet Witch said they were pulling their punches

__________________
There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies.
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
SPO2 Dalisay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 09:11 PM   #177
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPO2 Dalisay View Post
We are all speculating, giving theories, ideals filing in the blanks were a movie or TV show can't because there is no time.
No, we're not all doing it. I've already drawn the conclusion that there is zero logic in Stark approaching one superhero in New York and ignoring the rest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPO2 Dalisay View Post
Now you think that Stark would just snap up everybody who was strong. In that case why didn't he get Secretary Ross to get the 82nd Airborne to help?
I don't know, and I don't care, and your guess is as good as mine, but my only guess is that this is a comic book movie so it's focusing on comic book characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPO2 Dalisay View Post
My theory, he wasn't going to fight. And when they did fight as the Scarlet Witch said they were pulling their punches
That's all you got man, is a fan theory

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 09:19 PM   #178
SPO2 Dalisay
Vigilante
 
SPO2 Dalisay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Safe House
Posts: 809
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
No, we're not all doing it. I've already drawn the conclusion that there is zero logic in Stark approaching one superhero in New York and ignoring the rest.

I don't know, and I don't care, and your guess is as good as mine, but my only guess is that this is a comic book movie so it's focusing on comic book characters

That's all you got man, is a fan theory
And folks disagree with your theory, deal with it.

__________________
There is some good in the worst of us and some evil in the best of us. When we discover this, we are less prone to hate our enemies.
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.
SPO2 Dalisay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2018, 11:01 PM   #179
fan4stic
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 393
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
It's not like Tony's never visited someone who's been incarcerated before. Tony would decide for himself whether another is not stable. As for the "acrobat who punches people" - Black Widow could fall under that category and she was team Iron Man. Danny is the heir to a billion dollar conglomerate so I doubt Tony would have trouble finding him - he had no trouble finding Peter Parker, so...there is a point to reaching out to each of them.

This is the same old tired fan explanation that practically everyone now including you has tried to recycle in this thread
Yeah and an acrobat wouldn't serve his situation at all. Tony isn't shown to have the authority to Cage out of prison, even if Cage would agree and even if he's the kind of hero Tony wanted. Jessica is just as needless. None of this serves Tony's goal. Even Luke wouldn't really serve what Tony wanted to accomplish. Call it forced if you want, but Tony went to Peter for his strength in stopping a car at 3,000 pounds 40 miles an hour and his webbing. Maybe he did go to them first and they rejected him, but it doesn't matter and seeing those scenes doesn't service the movie or what the movie wants to do.

fan4stic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 03:35 AM   #180
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPO2 Dalisay View Post
And folks disagree with your theory, deal with it.
I don’t have a theory, so there’s nothing for me to deal with. Y’all are the ones with the theories. As far as folks disagreeing with me, I couldn’t care less
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
Yeah and an acrobat wouldn't serve his situation at all. Tony isn't shown to have the authority to Cage out of prison, even if Cage would agree and even if he's the kind of hero Tony wanted. Jessica is just as needless. None of this serves Tony's goal. Even Luke wouldn't really serve what Tony wanted to accomplish. Call it forced if you want, but Tony went to Peter for his strength in stopping a car at 3,000 pounds 40 miles an hour and his webbing. Maybe he did go to them first and they rejected him, but it doesn't matter and seeing those scenes doesn't service the movie or what the movie wants to do.
Like I said earlier, Black Widow is an “acrobat” and served Tony’s situation, so Daredevil could too. Tony could’ve also easily bailed Luke out of prison if he wanted to. I’m not calling it forced, I’m calling it a plot hole. The rest of your post is just more of “maybe this, maybe that” - fan explanation and speculation

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 05:49 AM   #181
fan4stic
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 393
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
I don’t have a theory, so there’s nothing for me to deal with. Y’all are the ones with the theories. As far as folks disagreeing with me, I couldn’t care less
Like I said earlier, Black Widow is an “acrobat” and served Tony’s situation, so Daredevil could too. Tony could’ve also easily bailed Luke out of prison if he wanted to. I’m not calling it forced, I’m calling it a plot hole. The rest of your post is just more of “maybe this, maybe that” - fan explanation and speculation
BW is already an established part of his group and Matt was retired. Maybe he could, but why would he when getting someone out of prison isn't in the interest of the accords and would take up an amount of time from what Ross gave him and how would showing him trying only to be rejected by Luke serve the movie? It's not maybe, Tony highlights Peter's webbing and strength in his points of interest in Peter. It's not a plot hole, because none of these things matter to the movie and all of these characters would reject Tony if asked (Matt's retired, Luke's a hometown hero, Jessica has no interest in government work), which would make those scenes pointless.

fan4stic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 06:47 AM   #182
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
BW is already an established part of his group and Matt was retired.
Really going all over the places with these excuses. First it's the fact that Matt is just an acrobat, now it's the fact that Tony doesn't know him and that he's retired...as if this explains why Tony wouldn't even try to recruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
Maybe he could, but why would he when getting someone out of prison isn't in the interest of the accords and would take up an amount of time from what Ross gave him and how would showing him trying only to be rejected by Luke serve the movie?
...because Luke has brute strength and would be a huge asset to his team
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
It's not maybe,
It is maybe because this is all an explanation coming from you, a fan, and not from a scene in the movie with Stark saying "Hm there is that bulletproof man in jail who would be a tough cookie to beat, but...I don't wanna waste my time with him."
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
Tony highlights Peter's webbing and strength in his points of interest in Peter. It's not a plot hole, because none of these things matter to the movie and all of these characters would reject Tony if asked (Matt's retired, Luke's a hometown hero, Jessica has no interest in government work), which would make those scenes pointless.
It is a plot hole. There are several superheroes in New York and there is no logic whatsoever narratively for Tony to not even attempt to talk to them, and no amount of fan explanation is going to make sense out of it. That's all you guys are doing is making up your own excuses to justify it when really, as I've said perhaps 10 times now - the only reason there's no passive mention or cameo of the Netflix characters in the MCU films is because of Hollywood politics

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:18 AM   #183
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 47,767
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

There also is no scene in the show explaining why Tony didn't recruit them or even a scene that shows he knows who they are. So your argument is based on speculation as well (since it is not directly mentioned in the narrative). You're speculating that there is no reason Tony should not have recruited them, and we're speculating on reasons why he may not have. All any of us are doing is speculating. You cannot have a debate based on speculation from yourself and then try to use that against other people. That is called hypocrisy.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:23 AM   #184
fan4stic
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 393
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
Really going all over the places with these excuses. First it's the fact that Matt is just an acrobat, now it's the fact that Tony doesn't know him and that he's retired...as if this explains why Tony wouldn't even try to recruit. ...because Luke has brute strength and would be a huge asset to his team It is maybe because this is all an explanation coming from you, a fan, and not from a scene in the movie with Stark saying "Hm there is that bulletproof man in jail who would be a tough cookie to beat, but...I don't wanna waste my time with him."It is a plot hole. There are several superheroes in New York and there is no logic whatsoever narratively for Tony to not even attempt to talk to them, and no amount of fan explanation is going to make sense out of it. That's all you guys are doing is making up your own excuses to justify it when really, as I've said perhaps 10 times now - the only reason there's no passive mention or cameo of the Netflix characters in the MCU films is because of Hollywood politics
These aren't excuses. These are pieces of the universe. BW is already there. Tony didn't recruit her. And him being retired or at least not active is evident by him not showing up for months and that's not a readily available superhero. What you're calling a plot hole is just a piece of info you don't have that the movie doesn't need because it doesn't serve the movie in any way. We know why the real reason they wouldn't be mentioned, but the movies don't need to mention them even if it could. The universe has built in reasons why irregardless though. Tony is on a limited timeframe. None of them are active at that moment, but Peter was. Based on everything, it makes sense for Tony to go for the active hero that wouldn't kill more time than he has.

Yeah, in Tony's situation at the moment, he wouldn't want to waste his time, because he doesn't have much. He was given a limit by Ross.

fan4stic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:24 AM   #185
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
There also is no scene in the show explaining why Tony didn't recruit them or even a scene that shows he knows who they are. So your argument is based on speculation as well (since it is not directly mentioned in the narrative). You're speculating that there is no reason Tony should not have recruited them, and we're speculating on reasons why he may not have. All any of us are doing is speculating. You cannot have a debate based on speculation from yourself and then try to use that against other people. That is called hypocrisy.
wait, are you talking about Spiderman? Or just everybody else on Tony's team? There wouldn't really need to be one since those characters have been introduced for a while.

Spider-Fan I thought you said you were done talking to me about this even if I am being a hypocrite, I ain't throwing any speculation around how or why or what ifs in regards to the Netflix characters being no shows on the big screen, I've said countless times that it's just politics

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:27 AM   #186
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 47,767
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
wait, are you talking about Spiderman? Or just everybody else on Tony's team? There wouldn't really need to be one since those characters have been introduced for a while.

Spider-Fan I thought you said you were done talking to me about this even if I am being a hypocrite, I ain't throwing any speculation around how or why or what ifs in regards to the Netflix characters being no shows on the big screen, I've said countless times that it's just politics
I am done making points in this argument itself. Pointing out that you're being a hypocrite is different. Ignoring the politics of why people can't appear in anything, there is no in universe explanation for anything, so any explanation either on why it doesn't make sense or why maybe Tony would have just ignored them for this is entirely speculative. You cannot cry foul when you yourself are speculating on reasons Tony should/would have called them.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:27 AM   #187
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
These aren't excuses. These are pieces of the universe. BW is already there. Tony didn't recruit her. And him being retired or at least not active is evident by him not showing up for months and that's not a readily available superhero.
So what excuse is there in Tony not even trying to recruit a vigilante who will be at least as effective as Black Widow, regardless of the fact that he was retired?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
What you're calling a plot hole is just a piece of info you don't have that the movie doesn't need because it doesn't serve the movie in any way. We know why the real reason they wouldn't be mentioned, but the movies don't need to mention them even if it could. The universe has built in reasons why irregardless though. Tony is on a limited timeframe. None of them are active at that moment, but Peter was. Based on everything, it makes sense for Tony to go for the active hero that wouldn't kill more time than he has.
The plot hole that I've been discussing in this thread is actually far beyond Civil War, it's for the MCU as a whole; this thread has just devolved into a discussion about that particular movie. It serves the MCU immensely if New York is going to be a key setting in the next Avengers movie and the Defenders do nothing. Anyways, Stark was on a limited timeframe yet he was already in New York so timing is not something I agree with either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
Yeah, in Tony's situation at the moment, he wouldn't want to waste his time, because he doesn't have much. He was given a limit by Ross.
Again, it's not like Tony himself said "I don't have time to talk to the other superheroes in New York" - it's you saying it

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:30 AM   #188
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
I am done making points in this argument itself.
But you're still here arguing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Pointing out that you're being a hypocrite is different. Ignoring the politics of why people can't appear in anything, there is no in universe explanation for anything, so any explanation either on why it doesn't make sense or why maybe Tony would have just ignored them for this is entirely speculative. You cannot cry foul when you yourself are speculating on reasons Tony should/would have called them.
Call me a hypocrite all you want but that isn't speculation...I thought it was said in this thread already that Feige doesn't care about Netflix so that's one and done the reason why this hasn't happened. I remember back before the Sony/Disney deal, people tried making similar excuses as to why Peter Parker doesn't need to be in the MCU, saying things like "he's a solo hero so he wouldn't join up with the Avengers anyway" lo and behold because the politics worked out, he's a full fledged MCU character now

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:38 AM   #189
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 47,767
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
But you're still here arguing... Call me a hypocrite all you want but that isn't speculation...I thought it was said in this thread already that Feige doesn't care about Netflix so that's one and done the reason why this hasn't happened. I remember back before the Sony/Disney deal, people tried making similar excuses as to why Peter Parker doesn't need to be in the MCU, saying things like "he's a solo hero so he wouldn't join up with the Avengers anyway" lo and behold because the politics worked out, he's a full fledged MCU character now
Pointing out Feige and co have a strained relationship with Marvel TV is not where the speculation comes from. I am not calling you a hypocrite for that reason. What IS speculation is trying to argue why Tony should have called them. Calling that a plot hole because he didn't is an entirely speculative argument. That is where you're being a hypocrite.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:42 AM   #190
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Pointing out Feige and co have a strained relationship with Marvel TV is not where the speculation comes from. I am not calling you a hypocrite for that reason. What IS speculation is trying to argue why Tony should have called them. Calling that a plot hole because he didn't is an entirely speculative argument. That is where you're being a hypocrite.
Tony should have called them because he was in New York, and completely ignoring the rest of the superheroes makes no narrative sense whatsoever. Insult me all you want, you ain't changing my mind man

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 07:48 AM   #191
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 47,767
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
Tony should have called them because he was in New York, and completely ignoring the rest of the superheroes makes no narrative sense whatsoever. Insult me all you want, you ain't changing my mind man
I'm not insulting you. I am pointing out your remark against people who disagree with you because they're speculating on something not explained in the movie is hypocritical because you're doing the same thing. You're allowed to think it is a plot hole, but if you're going to engage in a speculative debate, don't try and use that as an argument in your favor when you're doing the same thing. It's not an insult. It's a description of your current tactic.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 08:37 AM   #192
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
I'm not insulting you. I am pointing out your remark against people who disagree with you because they're speculating on something not explained in the movie is hypocritical because you're doing the same thing. You're allowed to think it is a plot hole, but if you're going to engage in a speculative debate, don't try and use that as an argument in your favor when you're doing the same thing. It's not an insult. It's a description of your current tactic.
Calling someone a hypocrite is one of the worst insults you could call them. I'm not trying to come up with reasons as to why Tony didn't reach out to the Netflix heroes. Therefore, I ain't speculating. My bottom line is that such a scenario hasn't happened because the writers didn't make it so. If Sony didn't shake the mouse's hand, Spider-Man wouldn't be part of the conversation either

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 08:42 AM   #193
Infinity9999x
Side-Kick
 
Infinity9999x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,308
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
What do you mean "again"? This is the first time you've tried this rebuttal since every other time all you've said is "ign is crap" - and anyways, I got no reason to believe that the scale on the marvel website isn't overall in line with the MCU, I don't see why it wouldn't be

I've already pointed out sections in the media where Luke's strength trumps Cap's, so I'm just gonna have to repeat myself; Cap struggled to break open a locked door on a helicarrier, meanwhile Luke kicked down a set of metal bars blocking his path. Cap can kick a man and send them flying in the air, meanwhile Luke flicks a man and knocks him out cold.

This is all it comes down to man. There's nothing else to be said here and I'm glad we can at least agree on this.
I said again because I mentioned two posts ago how innacurate and subject to change supolemental materials are. The only thing that's Canon are the shoes themselves. Period.

And dude, it doesn't matter if Luke appears to handle some grunts easier than Cap, he has never done anything close to pulling a helicopter down.

Let's say this again, He. Has. Never. Done. Anything. Like. That. There is no arguing this point. Cap, as of now, has clearly demonstrated the most impressive feat of strength. Luke hasn't. As such, we have no evidence to show that Luke is above Cap as of now.

It's simple man, if you're in a competition to see who lifts the heaviest thing, the dude who lifts the heaviest thing wins. You're argument is essentially saying "but in earlier rounds the other guy lifted a bit more!" Doesn't matter. What matters is who lifts the most at the end. Cap had lifted the heaviest thing so far. Luke has not. Ignoring that at this point is simply ignoring the reality of the movies and the Luke Cage show.

Once again, I'm not saying that Lukr won't eventually be shown to be as strong or stronger, but so far, he's done nothing to compare to Cap in Civil War.

__________________


my veiws on Raimi's Spider-man
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
here
just scoll down

X-men Short film:
http://vimeo.com/41530049
Infinity9999x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 08:46 AM   #194
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity9999x View Post
I said again because I mentioned two posts ago how innacurate and subject to change supolemental materials are. The only thing that's Canon are the shoes themselves. Period.

And dude, it doesn't matter if Luke appears to handle some grunts easier than Cap, he has never done anything close to pulling a helicopter down.

Let's say this again, He. Has. Never. Done. Anything. Like. That. There is no arguing this point. Cap, as of now, has clearly demonstrated the most impressive feat of strength. Luke hasn't. As such, we have no evidence to show that Luke is above Cap as of now.

It's simple man, if you're in a competition to see who lifts the heaviest thing, the dude who lifts the heaviest thing wins. You're argument is essentially saying "but in earlier rounds the other guy lifted a bit more!" Doesn't matter. What matters is who lifts the most at the end. Cap had lifted the heaviest thing so far. Luke has not. Ignoring that at this point is simply ignoring the reality of the movies and the Luke Cage show.

Once again, I'm not saying that Lukr won't eventually be shown to be as strong or stronger, but so far, he's done nothing to compare to Cap in Civil War.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. What you're saying basically if we're being non-biased, is that Luke hasn't had the exposition of doing something as extraordinary as what Cap did with the helicopter in Civil War.

I get that, however in the same movie we see Cap also kicking opponents to neutralize them; Luke spends way less effort to do the same. To me that means that Luke potentially can do much more than what Cap's done, we just haven't seen it yet because of budgetary reasons

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 08:57 AM   #195
Infinity9999x
Side-Kick
 
Infinity9999x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,308
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. What you're saying basically if we're being non-biased, is that Luke hasn't had the exposition of doing something as extraordinary as what Cap did with the helicopter in Civil War.

I get that, however in the same movie we see Cap also kicking opponents to neutralize them; Luke spends way less effort to do the same. To me that means that Luke potentially can do much more than what Cap's done, we just haven't seen it yet because of budgetary reasons
That I can get behind. And I think that's the most probable reason as well. And the fact that writers like to power up or down characters to serve frantic purposes. As cool as it was to see Cap pull a helicopter down, if he can pull 3000lbs, he should be able to more easily incapacitate people as well. But then we wouldn't have those knifty action scenes.

They do the same thing with Elecktra, if she can go hand to hand with Luke and Jessica, one hit should take Matt out of a fight. But that would make for a boring action sequence.

__________________


my veiws on Raimi's Spider-man
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
here
just scoll down

X-men Short film:
http://vimeo.com/41530049
Infinity9999x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2018, 09:40 AM   #196
Spider-Fan
SHHFFL 2014 Champion
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In the neighborhood!
Posts: 47,767
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
Calling someone a hypocrite is one of the worst insults you could call them. I'm not trying to come up with reasons as to why Tony didn't reach out to the Netflix heroes. Therefore, I ain't speculating. My bottom line is that such a scenario hasn't happened because the writers didn't make it so. If Sony didn't shake the mouse's hand, Spider-Man wouldn't be part of the conversation either
No it's not. Everyone is guilty of hypocrisy at some point or another, and pointing that out is not wrong. But it is speculative to assume Tony would have wanted their help in the first place. This is what I think you're having a hard time understanding.

Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 01:40 AM   #197
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,555
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Nothing that happens in Marvel TV is relevant to the films. It's pretty clear at this point. I hoped there could always be more, but I've moved on. Everyone else should too.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 05:26 AM   #198
fan4stic
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 393
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by XtremelyBaneful View Post
So what excuse is there in Tony not even trying to recruit a vigilante who will be at least as effective as Black Widow, regardless of the fact that he was retired?The plot hole that I've been discussing in this thread is actually far beyond Civil War, it's for the MCU as a whole; this thread has just devolved into a discussion about that particular movie. It serves the MCU immensely if New York is going to be a key setting in the next Avengers movie and the Defenders do nothing. Anyways, Stark was on a limited timeframe yet he was already in New York so timing is not something I agree with either.

Again, it's not like Tony himself said "I don't have time to talk to the other superheroes in New York" - it's you saying it
BW is already apart of his group and is apart of the avengers already. She's there because she's apart of te avengers. Tony isn't recruiting here. She's already apart of it.

NY wasn't a key setting. Titan and Wakanda were key settings along with thanos' ship and the dwarf star. NY is a footnote in the movie. It would've been nice to see more characters there, but it doesn't add anything to do it even if they were allowed to. Timing is still an issue with retired, anti-social and imprisoned people. If someone wants nothing to do with superheroism, they'll be harder to convince and that's more time. Even being in prison takes a little more legal time to wrangle, especially with Tony plnning to take the person out of the country. Then there's the things that Tony is interested in in spider-man's abilities.

You don't need it. If you know enough to know these characters, you'll know their situations are out of sorts at the moment, in connection with Tony's time limit. If you don't, it won't matter.

fan4stic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2018, 02:38 PM   #199
XtremelyBaneful
XOTWOD
 
XtremelyBaneful's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the dope spot
Posts: 13,066
Default Re: This show in the larger MCU...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity9999x View Post
That I can get behind. And I think that's the most probable reason as well. And the fact that writers like to power up or down characters to serve frantic purposes. As cool as it was to see Cap pull a helicopter down, if he can pull 3000lbs, he should be able to more easily incapacitate people as well. But then we wouldn't have those knifty action scenes.

They do the same thing with Elecktra, if she can go hand to hand with Luke and Jessica, one hit should take Matt out of a fight. But that would make for a boring action sequence.
Alright, I'm glad we could come to an understanding then. So...even if we don't want the same things, perhaps we still see eye to eye on these particular in-universe situations
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
No it's not. Everyone is guilty of hypocrisy at some point or another, and pointing that out is not wrong. But it is speculative to assume Tony would have wanted their help in the first place. This is what I think you're having a hard time understanding.
I understand what you're saying, you're being reasonable. I'm not saying that pointing it out is wrong nor am I saying that you don't have merit in calling me that, but I was brought up to believe it's a pretty bad insult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
BW is already apart of his group and is apart of the avengers already. She's there because she's apart of te avengers. Tony isn't recruiting here. She's already apart of it.
...no one said anything about recruiting BW. But she's on Tony's team, and Daredevil is as at least as effective as her so if he has her on his team it doesn't make sense for him to not want him too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
NY wasn't a key setting. Titan and Wakanda were key settings along with thanos' ship and the dwarf star. NY is a footnote in the movie. It would've been nice to see more characters there, but it doesn't add anything to do it even if they were allowed to. Timing is still an issue with retired, anti-social and imprisoned people. If someone wants nothing to do with superheroism, they'll be harder to convince and that's more time. Even being in prison takes a little more legal time to wrangle, especially with Tony plnning to take the person out of the country. Then there's the things that Tony is interested in in spider-man's abilities.
Technically the whole galaxy was a key setting since half the population was wiped out. That would mean a good portion of NY's population was wiped out too. But regardless of that, NY might become a primary setting in Av4 and if the Netflix characters do nothing, then it's a plot hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4stic View Post
You don't need it. If you know enough to know these characters, you'll know their situations are out of sorts at the moment, in connection with Tony's time limit. If you don't, it won't matter.
I don't need what? What the hell are you talking about?

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
"some guy" sounds like an idiot
Indeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexy Magician View Post
'you know what let this discussion go.'
Haha
XtremelyBaneful is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of Mandatory Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2018 All Rights Reserved.