Justice League Vs Avengers

[Class100strngth]

This might have already been a post due to the Dc marvel crossover. Im just curious , the fact that the avengers can stand against the justice league is quite spectacular. In Dc marvel crossovers Thor and superman fight , superman beats him but throughout the series , it appears that the rest of the justice league is very weak , i mean quicksilver fighting the flash .... on and off and quicksilver beating him this is kind of interesting . Green lantern is greatly underestimated in this series , but i do love when captain america goes up against superman , not caring how much power superman has , captain america is amazing , he knows he is no match for superman but still stands up against him. Who do you guys like better the avengers or the justice league , i will [personally go with the avengers because of iron man , vision and captain america.

[TheFalcon]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say most people here is going to say Justice League. Atleast they've got my vote.

And the Justice League is much more powerful than the Avengers (depending on their members of course). Flash, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter could take on anyone and win.

[The Question]

Well, I'm assuming we're going for the most popular/iconic line ups. Those being:



Justice League:

Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
Aquaman
The Flash


Avengers:

Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision


Now, the major clicnher in this fight would really be The Flash. Thor, while not having Superman's reflexes/reaction time, has a great deal more range, seeing as how he can conjur up a pretty nasty storm, ao thoaw two are pretty evenly matched. Captain America would defeat Batman, Scarlet Witch could hold her own againts Green Lantern, The Vision would be able to deal with Martian Manhunter, and Giant Man is capable of reaching sizes where he would be a formidable oponent for Wonder Woman and Aquaman. The Flash, however, trumps Quicksilver in terms of speed, and could conceivably disable the other Avengers at high speed, or at least mess with them.


Also, you have to consider tactics. Thor and Scarlet Witch would most likely pool their powers to teleport both groups to some secluded location, possible a place where the Avengers would have the upper hand. Also, Martian Manhunter would have the League in a telepathic link, giving them a greater stratigic advantage. Also, Vision (and martian Manhunter, who has similar powers) could preform a "Superman Smasher", as I call it. Basically, he would fly into the upper atmosphere, increase his body's density to maximum (where he weighs roughly 90 tons), and then free falls, slamming into his desired target (most likely the oposition's heavyest hitter), slamming into him or her at terminal velocity. If either Vision or Martian Manhunter did this, they could definately take out the bigger players like Thor and Superman quite early in the game.


Really, depending on how well they stratigise, it could go either way.

[TheFalcon]

Originally Posted by The Question

Well, I'm assuming we're going for the most popular/iconic line ups. Those being:



Justice League:

Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
Aquaman
The Flash


Avengers:

Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision


Now, the major clicnher in this fight would really be The Flash. Thor, while not having Superman's reflexes/reaction time, has a great deal more range, seeing as how he can conjur up a pretty nasty storm, ao thoaw two are pretty evenly matched. Captain America would defeat Batman, Scarlet Witch could hold her own againts Green Lantern, The Vision would be able to deal with Martian Manhunter, and Giant Man is capable of reaching sizes where he would be a formidable oponent for Wonder Woman and Aquaman. The Flash, however, trumps Quicksilver in terms of speed, and could conceivably disable the other Avengers at high speed, or at least mess with them.


Also, you have to consider tactics. Thor and Scarlet Witch would most likely pool their powers to teleport both groups to some secluded location, possible a place where the Avengers would have the upper hand. Also, Martian Manhunter would have the League in a telepathic link, giving them a greater stratigic advantage. Also, Vision (and martian Manhunter, who has similar powers) could preform a "Superman Smasher", as I call it. Basically, he would fly into the upper atmosphere, increase his body's density to maximum (where he weighs roughly 90 tons), and then free falls, slamming into his desired target (most likely the oposition's heavyest hitter), slamming into him or her at terminal velocity. If either Vision or Martian Manhunter did this, they could definately take out the bigger players like Thor and Superman quite early in the game.


Really, depending on how well they stratigise, it could go either way.

I think the deciding factors are brains, speed and communication.
Flash and the heavy hitters like Superman, WW and MM could easily keep alot of the Avengers busy long enough for Batman to analyze their opponents and come up with a plan to take them out. Then MM delivers the plan to everyone telepathically. Both of them are protected by GL, who could probably also join in the fight at the same time.
The telepathic link gives the JLA a big advantage since they don't have to give orders in the open and Flash's speed is another big advantage. Therefore I think the JLA takes it.

[The Question]

I doubt that in a battle situation, Batman would be calmly "analyzing their oponents." In a fight like that, he'd be forced to make stuff up on the fly. And also, remember, The Avengers are not idiots, and they are capable of tactical thinking themselves (hell, Cap is probably just as smart as Batman is). Wanda and Thor, pooling theri powers, could scatter the League apart. And, like I said, The Vision would atempt to take out their heavy hitters by doing what I described. It could easily go either way.

[TheFalcon]

Originally Posted by The Question

I doubt that in a battle situation, Batman would be calmly "analyzing their oponents." In a fight like that, he'd be forced to make stuff up on the fly. And also, remember, The Avengers are not idiots, and they are capable of tactical thinking themselves (hell, Cap is probably just as smart as Batman is). Wanda and Thor, pooling theri powers, could scatter the League apart. And, like I said, The Vision would atempt to take out their heavy hitters by doing what I described. It could easily go either way.

Batman would be protected by Green Lantern while planning, but even if he doesn't have much time he's a pretty good improviser.

But like I said it all depends on who reacts first and gets a tactic ready. I think JLA has the advantage there because of the telepatich link and GL can shield everyone. Flash's speed is also a big advantage since he can take Capt America out of the fight pretty fast.

In short it could go either way, but I think the JLA has the advantage.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by TheFalcon

Batman would be protected by Green Lantern while planning, but even if he doesn't have much time he's a pretty good improviser.

But like I said it all depends on who reacts first and gets a tactic ready. I think JLA has the advantage there because of the telepatich link and GL can shield everyone. Flash's speed is also a big advantage since he can take Capt America out of the fight pretty fast.

In short it could go either way, but I think the JLA has the advantage.

Scarlet Witch could easily nuetralize GL. She waves her hands, he's rolling on the ground and suffering from massive seizures. Hard to concentrait then, don't you think?

[KaptainKrypton]

Justice League:
Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
Aquaman
The Flash
Avengers:
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision

I'd definitely go with the JLA on this one. The Avengers isn't an all-star team like the JLA is in my opinion. The prime x-factor with the Avengers I think would have to be the qualities of Thor and Scarlet Witch. Both being magic beings they would pose a problem for Superman who is definitely the quarterback of the opposing squad (lest J'onn keeps them busy, then they're all in big trouble). Location would also play an important role because if it was anywhere near a body of water (New York, Metropolis, California coast), then Aquaman is definitely a few notches above the others on the food chain (he's always underestimated, too). In the end, though, I just don't see the Avengers pulling it out on this one due to the Flash's raw speed, Wonder Woman's fierce nature, and Batman's intelligence. As much as I hate always hearing about it, Batman is never unprepared to deal with a threat (even if he's thinking on the fly). The only way that Batman could be nullified is if Stark can invent some kind of gadget or weapon to deal with his foes. This is a damn tough question, though, because so many variables could determine the victory. If you're just talking about some kind of straight-up fight though, the mathematics spell doom for the Avengers, to me anyway.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

I'd definitely go with the JLA on this one. The Avengers isn't an all-star team like the JLA is in my opinion.

All star does not mean win. Scarlet Witch may not be hella popular, but she could probably kick Green Lantern's ass.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

The prime x-factor with the Avengers I think would have to be the qualities of Thor and Scarlet Witch. Both being magic beings they would pose a problem for Superman who is definitely the quarterback of the opposing squad (lest J'onn keeps them busy, then they're all in big trouble).

How would J'onn keep them busy? Telepathically? Thor has been shown to have a level of resistance against psychic atacks before.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

Location would also play an important role because if it was anywhere near a body of water (New York, Metropolis, California coast), then Aquaman is definitely a few notches above the others on the food chain (he's always underestimated, too).

How so? Water doesn't make him physically stronger, and he can't control it. The only up would be that he can comunicate with marine life. But that would only be of use if he could get someone down deep in the water. I doubt any city coasts have whales or giant squids living in them.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

In the end, though, I just don't see the Avengers pulling it out on this one due to the Flash's raw speed, Wonder Woman's fierce nature,

I'll give you the deal with Flash's speed. He is damn fast. But Wonder Woman's feirce nature? Thor's got that in spades.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

and Batman's intelligence. As much as I hate always hearing about it, Batman is never unprepared to deal with a threat (even if he's thinking on the fly).

You do realize that Cap is just as smart as Batman, right? And also, Batman can be unprepared for a threat. Like, when he's unprepared for a threat. It is impossible to prepare for everything. If he's thrown into a situation where he has no idea what's going on, he will not be prepared.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

The only way that Batman could be nullified is if Stark can invent some kind of gadget or weapon to deal with his foes.

Or, maybe, if Thor smacked him over the head with his big scary hammer. Or, if Captain America opened up a can of whup ass on him.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

This is a damn tough question, though, because so many variables could determine the victory. If you're just talking about some kind of straight-up fight though, the mathematics spell doom for the Avengers, to me anyway.

No, they don't. You're seriously under-estimating them. Or over-estimating the League. Either way.

[Guyverjay]

LOL

I think its hilarious when someone says the JLA beat the avengers because of Batman

Not because of the speed advantge, not because of the Flash, Supes or J'onn, or even GL and WW but BATMAN??

[The Question]

I love Batman, but Cap would kick his ass. The League's main advantage is The Flash. He would be the main deciding factor.

[Guyverjay]

I kow of a marvel team worhty of taking on the JLA

Okay they only fought together for like one issue but still...

Silver Surfer
Dr Strange
Thanos and the infinity watch

This is the "team" that stormed Asgard

[The Question]

Dude, against such a team, the League would get savagely anally raped so hard it's not even funny. Thanos alone would pose an ample threat to the entire group.

[KaptainKrypton]

Originally Posted by The Question

All star does not mean win. Scarlet Witch may not be hella popular, but she could probably kick Green Lantern's ass.

Oh, I wouldn't doubt she could get the drop on GL. She'd have to do it in a hurry though, because if that ring is raised in her direction she's in deep ****. This also depends on which universe you're talking about having the battle occur in as well (if you even are).

Originally Posted by The Question

How would J'onn keep them busy? Telepathically? Thor has been shown to have a level of resistance against psychic atacks before.

Manhunter is also carrying strength on par with Thor as well as flight, shapeshifting, and matter phasing for his own body. If Superman didn't already take care of Thor (which I believe he's done before in a handy fashion) then this wouldn't help matters. However, if The Avengers learned J'onn's weakenss, then all they'd have to do is bring a Bic lighter and some Kingsford lighter fluid and...presto. As for Wanda, once again her magic is the only x-factor, but if I personally don't think that even with all of her probability control and teleportation of objects she could do much (although maybe I'm wrong) if The Flash simply deposited her fine behind into the Speed Force (depending on which universe they were in, though Wanda would be stronger in the DC universe so Flash better be on his toes and in the Marvel universe there is no Speed Force, but she's weaker there anyway). Even if the Speed Force thing didn't work, he could run at full speed and punch her in the mouth.

Originally Posted by The Question

How so? Water doesn't make him physically stronger, and he can't control it. The only up would be that he can comunicate with marine life. But that would only be of use if he could get someone down deep in the water. I doubt any city coasts have whales or giant squids living in them.

Remember he can bring any of the creatures to any point of the water or near the shoreline with the communication abilities (not that this would always spell victory or anything like that). This isn't me underesimating the Avengers by any stretch, as I'd be fearful of susceptibility to Wanda's abilities, but Aquaman is very underestimated in that he is a solid combatant who has greatly enhanced strength and bulletproof skin to also stand on (yes, even on dry land) that could take on Iron Man or Captain America and come up victorious.

Originally Posted by The Question

I'll give you the deal with Flash's speed. He is damn fast. But Wonder Woman's feirce nature? Thor's got that in spades.

Thor was spanked by Superman and depending on what deal Wonder Woman has going on in her head at the given moment, she may show up with a sword in hand. Of course Thor's got fierceness in spades, I never would've claimed he didn't (I'm of Norwegian descent for pete's sake). He's not dubbed the God of Thunder for his serene disposition.

Originally Posted by The Question

Or, maybe, if Thor smacked him over the head with his big scary hammer. Or, if Captain America opened up a can of whup ass on him.

There are a handful of JLA members that could squab with Thor head-on (Superman, WW, GL, J'onnz). Last I checked Captain America wasn't the one with a victory over Batman, but what do I know, I just read 'em sometimes.

Originally Posted by The Question

No, they don't. You're seriously under-estimating them. Or over-estimating the League. Either way.

Quest, it's not that I think they'd get owned or anything like that. I also think that location would play a very important role as the power levels of each have been shown to be varied by which universe they reside in. I'm just looking at the facts garnered by previous matchups and overall power carried by each member separately along with past history, that's all. It's not that I feel an intelligent write-up couldn't yield an Avengers victory, but it had better be a good one, that's all.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

Oh, I wouldn't doubt she could get the drop on GL. She'd have to do it in a hurry though, because if that ring is raised in her direction she's in deep ****. This also depends on which universe you're talking about having the battle occur in as well (if you even are).

Why would she bee in deep ****? She could make it so his ring suddenly runs out of power.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

Manhunter is also carrying strength on par with Thor as well as flight, shapeshifting, and matter phasing for his own body. If Superman didn't already take care of Thor (which I believe he's done before in a handy fashion) then this wouldn't help matters. However, if The Avengers learned J'onn's weakenss, then all they'd have to do is bring a Bic lighter and some Kingsford lighter fluid and...presto. As for Wanda, once again her magic is the only x-factor, but if I personally don't think that even with all of her probability control and teleportation of objects she could do much (although maybe I'm wrong) if The Flash simply deposited her fine behind into the Speed Force (depending on which universe they were in, though Wanda would be stronger in the DC universe so Flash better be on his toes and in the Marvel universe there is no Speed Force, but she's weaker there anyway). Even if the Speed Force thing didn't work, he could run at full speed and punch her in the mouth.

Well, I agree, Martian Manhunter would probably beat Thor. Superman, it could go either way, but with J'onn, his desnity powers would give him an edge. But remember, The Vision has the same damn powers as J'onn, minus the telepathy and shapeshifting. So I'd think he'd keep him busy. With Wanda, I doubt The Flash would trap her in the speed force. He only does that when he's very desperate, since there's a chance he won't come back. And by that time, she may take him out.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

Remember he can bring any of the creatures to any point of the water or near the shoreline with the communication abilities (not that this would always spell victory or anything like that). This isn't me underesimating the Avengers by any stretch, as I'd be fearful of susceptibility to Wanda's abilities, but Aquaman is very underestimated in that he is a solid combatant who has greatly enhanced strength and bulletproof skin to also stand on (yes, even on dry land) that could take on Iron Man or Captain America and come up victorious.

Oh, hand to hand, he'd demolish Cap and Iron Man. But he can't magically make sea creatures apear in front of him when he's in the water. They still have to swim for where ever they are when he calls them. And I doubt there are many whales or giant squids in city shore lines.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

Thor was spanked by Superman and depending on what deal Wonder Woman has going on in her head at the given moment, she may show up with a sword in hand. Of course Thor's got fierceness in spades, I never would've claimed he didn't (I'm of Norwegian descent for pete's sake). He's not dubbed the God of Thunder for his serene disposition.

Superman beating Thor was badly written. The descision was based entirely on DC not wanting their star hero to loose. The fight should have been much closer that it was written. In said fight, Thor did alot of stupid **** he normally wouldn't do.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

There are a handful of JLA members that could squab with Thor head-on (Superman, WW, GL, J'onnz). Last I checked Captain America wasn't the one with a victory over Batman, but what do I know, I just read 'em sometimes.

Cap can and should beat Batman. He's about twice as string, fast, and agile as Batman. He never gets tired. He's as skilled a hand to hand combatant. And he's just as smart. He would own Batman quite hard.

Originally Posted by KaptainKrypton

Quest, it's not that I think they'd get owned or anything like that. I also think that location would play a very important role as the power levels of each have been shown to be varied by which universe they reside in. I'm just looking at the facts garnered by previous matchups and overall power carried by each member separately along with past history, that's all. It's not that I feel an intelligent write-up couldn't yield an Avengers victory, but it had better be a good one, that's all.

And I don't think the League has as huge an advantage as you say.

[KaptainKrypton]

We could debate this all day long, which would be fun. I'm probably not going to convince you anymore than you'd convince me. It's a pity we're not allowed to help edit what's been done in print. The Marvel/DC fiasco certainly comes to mind. Don't even get me started on Amalgam.

[Lord Melo]

I find it interesting that everyone seems to think that Caps would take Bats so easily as he's x2 speed, strength, etc.
If we're talking straight hand to hand, then yeh, Caps probably takes it.
But seriously, since when has Bats been the type to stand there and go toe to toe with suped up enemies? He has a huge array of tricks up his sleeve for dealing with guys that are above the normal strength of humans.
And what you CAN guarantee is that Caps hasn't seen hardly any of the tricks that Bats would throw his way.

A round shield and a stiff punch isn't going to make Bats shake at all. lol..

As for the whole match up: JLA all the way. I read the Avengers for years, but against the JLA (hell, even Supes, Flash & Bats alone) Cap and crew would get all smacked to doody. And if Supes is pissed for some reason (Thor macked on Lois), and is moving at full speed with eyes blazing, forget about it.

[Lord Melo]

Just re-read rosters. I'd say you'd have to go with this lineup for a decent fight:

Partial JLA:
Superman
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Batman
The Flash

Avengers:
Captain America
Thor
Iron Man
Scarlet Witch
Quicksilver
Giant Man
Wasp
Vision
ADD Fantastic Four as cannon fodder
ADD core X-Men as distraction (Without Phoenix this is still a bloodbath. With Phoenix JLA is hurting).


Then you'd have a decent fight.
But bring along Supergirl or Captain Atom, game seriously over.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

I find it interesting that everyone seems to think that Caps would take Bats so easily as he's x2 speed, strength, etc.
If we're talking straight hand to hand, then yeh, Caps probably takes it.
But seriously, since when has Bats been the type to stand there and go toe to toe with suped up enemies? He has a huge array of tricks up his sleeve for dealing with guys that are above the normal strength of humans.
And what you CAN guarantee is that Caps hasn't seen hardly any of the tricks that Bats would throw his way.

A round shield and a stiff punch isn't going to make Bats shake at all. lol..

Yeah. But Cap isn't retarded, either. He's got just as muich experiance as Batman, and is probably just as smart, if not moreso.

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

As for the whole match up: JLA all the way. I read the Avengers for years, but against the JLA (hell, even Supes, Flash & Bats alone) Cap and crew would get all smacked to doody. And if Supes is pissed for some reason (Thor macked on Lois), and is moving at full speed with eyes blazing, forget about it.

Okay. If it were Superman, Batman, and The Flash by themselves, Batman would be taken wout pretty quick. Superman wouldn't make much a difference, because he'd simply be overpowered by the rest. The only advantage that group would have is The Flash, because his speed dwarfs that of everyone in The Avengers. That's it.

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

Just re-read rosters. I'd say you'd have to go with this lineup for a decent fight:



Partial JLA:

Superman

Green Lantern

Martian Manhunter

Wonder Woman

Batman

The Flash



Avengers:

Captain America

Thor

Iron Man

Scarlet Witch

Quicksilver

Giant Man

Wasp

Vision

ADD Fantastic Four as cannon fodder

ADD core X-Men as distraction (Without Phoenix this is still a bloodbath. With Phoenix JLA is hurting).





Then you'd have a decent fight.

But bring along Supergirl or Captain Atom, game seriously over.

If you had the FF and X-Men helping, the League would get destroyed. Adding tmem isn't necesairy to make it a decent fight.

[Lord Melo]

Someone needs to re-read Superman/Batman to see how they handle large groups lol.

[Lord Melo]

Originally Posted by The Question

Yeah. But Cap isn't retarded, either. He's got just as muich experiance as Batman, and is probably just as smart, if not moreso.

Didn't say he was, not sure how the statement is applicable. Batman has hundreds of actual weapons and distractions to choose from.

Originally Posted by The Question

Okay. If it were Superman, Batman, and The Flash by themselves, Batman would be taken wout pretty quick. Superman wouldn't make much a difference, because he'd simply be overpowered by the rest. The only advantage that group would have is The Flash, because his speed dwarfs that of everyone in The Avengers. That's it.

Superman is almost as fast as the Flash and WAY faster than Quicksilver or anyone else in the Avengers, FF4 or X-Men.
Overpower Supes, lol, that's a good one. You'd think they'd have done that with the Hulk years ago... but no, the Avengers hired out Spiderman to take on the Hulk when it came down to it.

Originally Posted by The Question

If you had the FF and X-Men helping, the League would get destroyed. Adding tmem isn't necesairy to make it a decent fight.

Naw, don't buy it. If phoenix is there then they have a shot. Without, it's just more cannon fodder. FF4... seriously, they have trouble handling water tube traps that Dr. Doom throws at them.

[The Question]

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

Someone needs to re-read Superman/Batman to see how they handle large groups lol.

I have read Superman/Batman. And I know that when the fight between them and the president's group was badly written. Superman should not have been able to dispatch with Green Lantern that easily.

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

Didn't say he was, not sure how the statement is applicable. Batman has hundreds of actual weapons and distractions to choose from.

No he doesn't. Not on him, anyway. His belt only has twelve pouches.

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

Superman is almost as fast as the Flash and WAY faster than Quicksilver or anyone else in the Avengers, FF4 or X-Men.
Overpower Supes, lol, that's a good one. You'd think they'd have done that with the Hulk years ago... but no, the Avengers hired out Spiderman to take on the Hulk when it came down to it.

1) Superman is not almost as fast as The Flash. At his fastest speed, Superman would still look like a statue to The Flash moving at his fastest speed.

2) The Avengers didn't hire out Spider-Man. They were considering him for membership, and a test of his skills was to see how well he would fare against The Hulk.

3) Thor is on The Hulk's level in terms of strength, and has more than a few other abilities that give him an advantage.

Originally Posted by Lord Melo

Naw, don't buy it. If phoenix is there then they have a shot. Without, it's just more cannon fodder. FF4... seriously, they have trouble handling water tube traps that Dr. Doom throws at them.

And I'm sure the League would have trouble with Dr. Doom aswell. If the Pheonix is there, then the League would definately get owned. She's much more powerful than the League.

[Lord Melo]

Well, I guess I can't argue with a guy who's posted over 20,000 times!!!
Lol man.

Good show, and JLA ALL THE WAY!

[larryfilmmaker]

Does anybody have the picture of Superman catching Thor's hammer? If so, can ya post it?

[Andy C.]

I don't have that one, but I've got one of Supes carrying Thor's hammer and Cap's shield if you're interested.