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Old 05-05-2006, 06:32 PM   #101
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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Originally Posted by javi1024
did it have to be a machine that drained his powers? did he have to kidnap rogue to power it? it couldve been more about magneto gathering parts to get it completed. maybe he really couldve been hunting wolverine because he needed adimantium. theres plenty of things that couldve been altered.
No it certainly didn't have to be that way! Yes there were things that could've been done differently for the better by using Kitty Pryde as the newcomer in X1.

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Old 05-05-2006, 06:35 PM   #102
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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I think Ultimate took it from the movies actually.
Actually no they didn't. Kitty and Bobby were a couple in the Ultimate universe before the X3 script was written. That's why I said they took that from Ultimate X-Men.

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Old 05-05-2006, 11:08 PM   #103
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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well its not like it was the greatest story ever written. it wouldnt have hurt to change some things up.
I'm not saying it's the greatest story ever told. It's in response to your "all they would have had to have changed was Magneto's plan" statement, like changing Magneto's plan was such a minor plot point or something, when in actuality, it was his plan that was the reasoning behind just about everything that happened in the movie.

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Old 05-06-2006, 11:28 AM   #104
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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I'm not saying it's the greatest story ever told. It's in response to your "all they would have had to have changed was Magneto's plan" statement, like changing Magneto's plan was such a minor plot point or something, when in actuality, it was his plan that was the reasoning behind just about everything that happened in the movie.
well yes magneto's plan was important to the film. all i was saying was they could have changed some of the details to bring rogue closer to her character, maybe have Wolverine Magneto's actual target, or have Kitty or even Jubilee as the newcomer and one of them could've been Magneto's target. it would hav worked better because im sure we all know that wolverine does have that kind of relationship with Kitty Pryde and/or Jubilee (cant remember right now).yes many of the scenes would have to be altered to fit with the new character(s), but esentially it couldve been the same story with characters/relationships we're used to.

on another note- would it have killed the writers to have Sabertooth and Wolverine talk about their history before they fought in Canada? or maybe when Xavier was describing Sabertooth, Wolverine couldve interrupted and said "Yea I know him." I dont understand why singer wouldnt want to establish that relationship (especially since Wolverine was his favorite X-Man)

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Old 05-06-2006, 12:26 PM   #105
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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Originally Posted by The Batman
1. The camera totally focused on logan after jeans death scene when cyke was crying.

2. No ones saying the fued between wolverine/cyclops is not accurate. its the way that its totally one sided in logans favor that is.
1.They should both of them cry after Jean died- first Cyclops as he lost it, then Wolverine trying to hold back his tears, and then back to Cyclops while Nightcrawler was reciting the Bible verse.
2. I didnt see it as one-sided at all. Yes Wolverine has feelings for Jean, but he went out of line when he tried to take her from Cyclops. I think they portrayed both characters perfectly.

my only gripe was Cyclops was barely in the second one. i know it was for good reason, but i think if they included his 2 deleted scenes i wouldve been more satisfied.

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Old 05-06-2006, 07:11 PM   #106
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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Originally Posted by javi1024
well yes magneto's plan was important to the film. all i was saying was they could have changed some of the details to bring rogue closer to her character, maybe have Wolverine Magneto's actual target, or have Kitty or even Jubilee as the newcomer and one of them could've been Magneto's target. it would hav worked better because im sure we all know that wolverine does have that kind of relationship with Kitty Pryde and/or Jubilee (cant remember right now).yes many of the scenes would have to be altered to fit with the new character(s), but esentially it couldve been the same story with characters/relationships we're used to.

on another note- would it have killed the writers to have Sabertooth and Wolverine talk about their history before they fought in Canada? or maybe when Xavier was describing Sabertooth, Wolverine couldve interrupted and said "Yea I know him." I dont understand why singer wouldnt want to establish that relationship (especially since Wolverine was his favorite X-Man)
I'll totally agree with you on that last point. Even though I'm not a huge Sabretooth fan, some history between him and Wolverine should have happened. I don't think it would have been too hard.

In your response to Batman, I also agree. I don't think that Wolverine was the focus when Jean died. I think that Cyclops was the focus. I think it was obvious. And I also agree that I think they nailed the characters as well as they could.

My only complaint with Cyclops' portrayal is by the end of all things, Storm will have been portrayed as more of a leader than he was.

Cyclops led the team well, just like he should have, in X-Men. But in X2 he was out of commission due to Stryker's plan, and Storm took over. Now in this one, whether he dies or not, he's still striken with grief, and leaves the team.

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Old 05-07-2006, 09:37 AM   #107
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Default Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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Originally Posted by Sun_Down
Yes. Take Cyke, the character who everyone seems to ***** about. In the movies, he was an uptight control freak who constantly sits on his hands and waits for Xavier's approval. That sounds quite a bit like Scott Summers to me. And I'll say it again : these are not comics! You can't slowly flesh out a character every month for 40 years. There would be no way to go into every detail of each character's histories the way you seem to want. Details were changed to fit the medium, but the characters were, at the core, the same. In the grand scheme of things, all you're doing is nitpicking and you know it. If you don't like the movies...

Deal.

With.

It.
True about Scott. Seems to me he is exactly like he is in the comics. And I don't mind anything about him. The actor works just fine for me. I love how he really doesn't take one ounce of crap from Logan. The "It needs gas" ...."Well fill it up!" exchange is perfect.

Bottom line for me is make a good movie please. I can take changes if the movie is good. The characters change in the comics too. (We tend to forget that one.) But if the comic remains good, I can take it. I remember when the New Mutants went to that weird artwork....yuck...I could barely stand it.

So change Rogue for the movie...I understand that we can't explain Ms Marvel...I get it. The movie was good and I like Rogue....so it's ok.

Change the Hulk....the movie is horrid...it's not ok.

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Old 05-11-2006, 02:00 PM   #108
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Lightbulb Re: Now what the hell would've been so hard about getting relationships right?

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Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay
mistopurr, never make assumptions about my X-Men fandom ever again. I have been a fan of the X-Men since long, LONG before the movies ever came out. I've been wanting X-Men movies my entire life. But I "get" the X-Men, and I realize that there is more to the X-Men than just being a bunch of superheroes with super powers. There is a true meaning there, to not only each character, but to the mythos as a whole. X-Men in general (no matter the form) suffers when it strays from it's themes of oppression, and the political commentary. When they go into space, and alternate realities, and all of that kind of stuff, it suffers. And I feel that way about the comics, cartoons, video games, and if the movies end up taking that direction in future movies.

Don't you ever question my love of these characters again.




Now to this:

First off, yes, I am a fan of the comics. I am by no means an expert on the comics, but I am a fan of the comics. And yes, I do feel that the X-Men movies were all that they could have been.

Because as a fan, I take it as a sign of respect towards the fans, and towards the mythos, that someone like Bryan Singer came along and saw these characters as *more* than just comic book characters. He saw these guys as something to be taken seriously. And yes, it would have looked like Power Rangers if it was taken out of the comics. People always bring up Spiderman as a comparrison as to why the costumes could have worked, but there is a difference here; the character of Spiderman was done in all CGI, it wasn't a guy in a bright red spider costume. There is also the fact that Spiderman isn't as serious of a superhero as the X-Men are. Spiderman is a superhero who's purpose more is towards the bright colors and fancy powers, whereas the purpose of the X-Men is more of a social commentary, with superheroes to make it more interesting. Bryan Singer even said that he tried costumes more accurate to the comics, and they just didn't work.

Someone coming in and taking these characters seriously, and portraying them in a way that can be taken seriously by everyone is a sign of respect, as far as I'm concerned. It's a director understanding that these characters aren't just comic book characters, and that these movies aren't just comic book movies. These are stories with a true message fueling them, not just "super hero has to fight super villian to save cty"... no, it's something that everyone can relate to on some level. And it's something that is very real in our world, something that has happened, something that is still happening.

The X-Men is about things like the Holocaust, the Jim Crow Laws of the south, genocide, segregation, the camps that Japanese Americans were placed in during World War 2, the destruction of the Native Americans... it is abot every kind of prejudice that this world has ever faced. And that is something that is much deeper than "Spiderman gets bit by a spider and gets super powers, and Norman Oswell's company goes bankrupt, he's exposed to a toxin, his company gets stolen from him, and he goes crazy"

No, the X-Men is about a man who survived one of the greatest horrors this world has ever faced, the Holocaust. A man who has seen first hand the destruction that can be caused through human intolerance. And a man who is a double minority; he is not just Jewish, but he is also a mutant. And the world looks dubiously towards mutants because of the potential threat they can cause. And this is a man who knows first hand what can happen because of those dubious views upon a group of people, and will not sit idly by while his people gradually lose all of their rights, and become oppressed yet again.

X-Men is also about another man, a pacifist, who believes that through hard work, patience, peace, and diplomacy, that mankind can come to accept mutants as equals, and that the 2 forms of humanity can live together in prosperity.

X-Men is about a group of young men and women who go to an institution to learn how to best utilize their powers, not just for themselves, but also for the benefit of all of mankind. It is also about another group of young men and women who are going to take action, and stand up for what they believe in, and fight for their acceptance and equality, even if their actions are a bit radical, they aren't going to sit around and accept their fate.

And Bryan Singer got that. He saw that, and that's what he made them about in the movies. Exactly what they should have been about. Unlike characters like Spiderman, the X-Men aren't about super powers and colorful costumes. They are about something much deeper than that, with special powers and colorful costumes to make it a bit interesting.

Being more "accurate", as you say, towards the comics (which, by more accurate, you just mean the stuff like powers and costumes, not the things that the X-Men is truly about, the things that truly are accurate) would mean sacrificing the emotion and heart of the storyline, sacrificing the substance, for the flash. And that is not what the X-Men is about. That would have turned X-Men into a typical summer action film, just like Fantastic 4 or Daredevil, that you all seem to despise so much. But instead we got someone who, despite not being a fan initially, saw deeper than Cyclops blasting a hole through a mountain, saw deeper than Rogue flying around throwing tanks at Sentinels, and dug deep to find out just what X-Men was truly about. And he saw it. And he got it. And he brought it to life, just the way it should have been brought to life.

I honestly feel that people who think these movies weren't accurate don't truly comprehend the true meaning behind the mythos, and the true essence that ever character possesses, beyond a costume and a power. Yes, there were some inaccuracies, such as the characterization of Storm, Iceman, and Lady Deathstrike, but other than that, everything these movies have portrayed has been spot on to what the comic books are all about.

Too bad we never see Cyclops blast a hole through a mountain and bark out orders like a madman. He is still portrayed as a leader. He is still portrayed as someone who looks towards Xavier like a father, and someone who will step up and take Xavier's role should anything ever happen to him. He is portrayed as someone with an undying love towards Jean Grey, and just because some of you can't see beyond Wolverine's screentime doesn't mean that's not how he's portrayed. He is shown as somebody who is loyal to his teammates, or rather, his family.

Too bad we don't see Rogue flying around throwing tanks. She is portrayed as someone who is very scared because of her powers, something very accurate to the comics. She is portrayed as someone afraid to hurt the ones she loves because of her powers, and as such, she is afraid to get close, just like in the comics. And this next movie seems to have her questioning herself, and whether or not she should "cure" herself... just like the comics.

If you think these movies weren't accurate, then you can't see the forest for the trees. You don't know these characters beyond their costumes and their powers. And you don't comprehend that X-Men is more than a superhero story, but a story about true to our world realities, with a message deeper than "the good guy always stops the bad guy".
you nailed it. i also agree with your theaory. i think brian singer got this franchise right. i see to that it might of not of had as much of an impact if the x-men where in thier costumes. it just makes it more real that they went with the uniforms & thier owm clothes.

i liked the direction that singer went with. & i hope this 3rd movie will go out with a bang!

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