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Old 07-20-2006, 03:30 AM   #76
ntcrawler
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BatJeff7786
The Professor said he was dead, and he would of all people be the one to know. Otherwise he wouldn't have provoked the Phoenix so much when he said that to her.
Oh? And how would he be the one to know? He can't sense anyone that far. Cerebro was out of commision since its parts were stolen by Stryker and ended up under water at his base, so he couldn't use it to find anyone even if he wanted to. Jean herself wasn't sure what happened, just random flashes of memory. He didn't learn anything by probing her head while talking to Logan either. Plus Xavier can't sense or scan people who are unconcious or in a coma unless he's there in person and makes physical contact. The movie leaves a big plothole at just HOW Xavier found out. My best guess is Logan told him so and he believed him. I think it went something like this:

"Charles, we couldn't find any sign of Scott."
"Did you do a thorough search for him?"
"Well not really. We forgot all about it once we found Jean."
"hmmm, I see. But you found his glasses?"
"yeah. Floating in mid-air."
"It's obvious then. Jean must have vaporized him"
"damn"

When he felt that disturbance, he didn't know anything specific except that something BIG happened at Alkali Lake. but he didn't sense something specific like Scott being in danger, otherwise he would have told Logan and Ro before they left. None of them knew that Scott went to Alkali Lake. In fact they were surprised to find his glasses there (no specifics on whether they found his motorcycle). So the whole matter seems pretty vague. Neither the movie audience nor the chararcters in the movie could determine for certain what happened.

And I'd get provoked too if someone accused me of killing someone and I didn't. Granted I probably wouldn't lift my house off its foundation and turn the other person into sand, but I'd still get mighty upset.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.

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Old 07-20-2006, 03:38 AM   #77
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baredevil


"Take THAT, you scene-and-girlfriend stealer!"

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Old 07-20-2006, 04:38 AM   #78
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntcrawler
Granted I probably wouldn't lift my house off its foundation and turn the other person into sand, but I'd still get mighty upset.
Well then, you just DON'T know how to vent your frustrations, do you?!

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Old 07-20-2006, 09:08 AM   #79
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Big question, if scott was vaporised, why didnt his glasses blow? Look how quickly they went in the infirmary

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Old 07-20-2006, 09:10 AM   #80
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntcrawler
"Charles, we couldn't find any sign of Scott."
"Did you do a thorough search for him?"
"Well not really. We forgot all about it once we found Jean."
"hmmm, I see. But you found his glasses?"
"yeah. Floating in mid-air."
"It's obvious then. Jean must have vaporized him"
"damn"
hahahaha

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Old 07-20-2006, 11:03 AM   #81
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
Big question, if scott was vaporised, why didnt his glasses blow? Look how quickly they went in the infirmary
Because Jean had them.

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Old 07-20-2006, 11:25 AM   #82
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Yup i don't think he was dead anyway and good point, The Ones

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Old 07-20-2006, 11:41 PM   #83
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
Big question, if scott was vaporised, why didnt his glasses blow? Look how quickly they went in the infirmary
Basically because they weren't in Scott's hands. Jean was holding them or let them go. So whatever happened to Scott didn't happen to the glasses.

Also, they were meant to be used as a plot device. Remember, no one knew that Scott went to Alkali Lake. It was sort of an obvious way to tell the chars and the rest of the audience "Scott was here".

If it wasn't for the glasses, there would probably be no one for anyone to know that Scott had in fact been there. They certainly didn't find his motorcycle.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 12:02 AM   #84
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Hehe.

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Old 07-21-2006, 04:18 PM   #85
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bana
he's in Metropolis
That's one way Devastated by the events of X3, Scott took the cure, changed his name and started a new life working for a newspaper in Metropolis, hehe.

Someone should try doing a fanfic about this. A major crisis is looming an the X-men desperately need their Cyclops back, so they go to Metropolis to convince him to stop pretending to be Richard White and come back

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:21 PM   #86
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Zak Penn may actualy be stupid enough write that in X-4 if it happens

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Old 07-21-2006, 04:25 PM   #87
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
Zak Penn may actualy be stupid enough write that in X-4 if it happens
If you've seen SR, you just know that there are some suspicious similarities between the two characters. Funny thing, if Penn were to do that, some fans would feel vindicated, haha

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:31 PM   #88
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
Zak Penn may actualy be stupid enough write that in X-4 if it happens
I take back what I said. You're right. Penn's the one who said that the Phoenix saga has nothing to do about love or sacrifice or the bond between Jean and Scott.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:37 PM   #89
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilya
Yeah, that would be the result of internalizing the energies from his eyes. What happens is she got so caught up in those great lookin blue eyes for the first time that she loses concentration and POW*
It's pretty much established that Jean's never seen Scott's eyes before and Scott's never seen Jean on his own. There's a back cute story about shortly after they met, where a blindfolded Scott was able to show Jean his eyes by thinking a picture of them to her telepathically, and Jean was able to show him what she looked like the same way. To see each other eye to eye with nothing in between, it is pretty touching, isn't it? And then losing each other in the moment, it certainly would be a good reason to get distracted and forget about those force fields you're trying to maintain over his eyes.

That final moment where Jean suddenly opens her eyes in concern could be either a sign that the evil inside is waking up, or perhaps "OMG! I forgot about those optic blast forcefields!"

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 04:41 PM   #90
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniella
I will say no more of it... you'll have to read the story... I will try to be quickly in my translation, but I can't promise anything...

Dany
Hey Dany don't hold us in suspense too long! I look forward to reading it! It amazez me already how many stories have been published. I'm big into the fanfic community for this and other movies. Usually when a movie comes out, you see fanfics that either fill in missing scenes or show how the story continues. But this time there is a very large number of stories that actually rewrite or change what happens in the movie to fix the atrocities, it's really amazing. So far I found at least a dozen alternate X3 stories (I'm working on 2 myself), as well as - get this - 2 full length novels that have already been published online showing an alternate X3. I highly recommend them. Both authors are taking a much different look at the events, but at the sime time it's clear how much better researched and thought out they are, both do a great job of answering the questions and lose ends that X2 left behind, as well as showing the true strengths and courage of the characters that X3 seemed to lack.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:11 PM   #91
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntcrawler
I take back what I said. You're right. Penn's the one who said that the Phoenix saga has nothing to do about love or sacrifice or the bond between Jean and Scott.
HE DID!?!?!?!??! THAT BASTARD! If he thinks its just some potential for some cool F/X sequence instead of an actual plot device then let me get my book of assassins out...

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Old 07-21-2006, 05:22 PM   #92
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
HE DID!?!?!?!??! THAT BASTARD! If he thinks its just some potential for some cool F/X sequence instead of an actual plot device then let me get my book of assassins out...
Here is the actual quote:

"The message of the Dark Phoenix Saga is not one of self-sacrifice. Nor is it about the fact that Scott and Jean are in love. It is about the terrible, horrific, but ultimately human capacity for evil, and what we must do in the face of it. Even when it comes from inside us. I know a lot of people like to see the Phoenix Saga as a love story, but I don't agree with that. It is a classic Jekyl and Hyde story, including repressed emotions and the like, and the ESSENTIAL moment is that Jean realizes what she has done and destroys (or allows to be destroyed) the dark side of her. I think we got the spirit of it without the details."

-Zak Penn

I really like the part where he goes "We got the spirit of it without the details". That just makes me so happy

Funny thing, I never thought of Jean like that. Jean's supposed to be known for her compassion and love, a kindred spirit who would be devastated if she ever willingly caused mass destruction and murder. Even in EndSong Scott tells her when she's possessed by the Phoenix "You are love! To deny that is to deny your own existence!". Obviously that's one of the details that Penn left out. I seriously can't see Jean as having that kind of rage and hatred deep down inside that Penn talks about. If she did have a Phoenix alter-ego evil persona that was bitter and filled with hatred, it would have shown. You would see SOME hints that she's holding back some kind of repressed frustration. And yet you never do. Especially towards Xavier. In fact you only see the opposite. Like that really touching extra scene in X1 where she confesses to Charles with tears in her eyes that without him, none of them would have a life worth living and kisses him on the forehead.
It just doesn't work. It'd make more sense to just have Jean in X3 possessed by evil demonic monsters

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.

Last edited by ntcrawler; 07-21-2006 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:29 PM   #93
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntcrawler
Here is the actual quote:

"The message of the Dark Phoenix Saga is not one of self-sacrifice. Nor is it about the fact that Scott and Jean are in love. It is about the terrible, horrific, but ultimately human capacity for evil, and what we must do in the face of it. Even when it comes from inside us. I know a lot of people like to see the Phoenix Saga as a love story, but I don't agree with that. It is a classic Jekyl and Hyde story, including repressed emotions and the like, and the ESSENTIAL moment is that Jean realizes what she has done and destroys (or allows to be destroyed) the dark side of her. I think we got the spirit of it without the details."

-Zak Penn

I really like the part where he goes "We got the spirit of it without the details". That just makes me so happy

Funny thing, I never thought of Jean like that. Jean's supposed to be known for her compassion and love, a kindred spirit who would be devastated if she ever willingly caused mass destruction and murder. Even in EndSong Scott tells her when she's possessed by the Phoenix "You are love! To deny that is to deny your own existence!". Obviously that's one of the details that Penn left out. I seriously can't see Jean as having that kind of rage and hatred deep down inside that Penn talks about. It just doesn't work
FFS!!!, He calls himself a fanboy? He doesnt know anything about the phoenix saga if thats what he thinks it is.

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Old 07-21-2006, 05:33 PM   #94
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
FFS!!!, He calls himself a fanboy? He doesnt know anything about the phoenix saga if thats what he thinks it is.
He doesn't know anything about love stories or character relations either. If that's his take on things, then I'd hate to see his version of Romeo and Juliet or Casablanca. I can just see it now: Juliet kills Romeo during the balcony scene because she hated the fact that he was a Capulet, at which point Mercutio takes Romeo's place because he thinks he loves Juliet too, and then kills her at the end. And in Casablanca when Rick walks up to Ilsa and tells her to go ahead and shoot him, she does.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:34 PM   #95
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntcrawler
He doesn't know anything about love stories or character relations either. If that's his take on things, then I'd hate to see his version of Romeo and Juliet or Casablanca. I can just see it now: Juliet kills Romeo during the balcony scene because she hated the fact that he was a Capulet, at which point Mercutio takes Romeo's place because he thinks he loves Juliet too, and then kills her at the end. And in Casablanca when Rick walks up to Ilsa and tells her to go ahead and shoot him, she does.
Ha, lol. So true. Can you believe he's writing the new Hulk movie???

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Old 07-21-2006, 05:37 PM   #96
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

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Originally Posted by The Ones
Ha, lol. So true. Can you believe he's writing the new Hulk movie???
Hmm, well the Hulk is supposed to be about repressed rage and anger. Now it makes me wonder.

Maybe he confused X-Men and Jean for the Hulk???

At this rate, the new Hulk movie might turn out to be a story of love and sacrifice and redemption.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.
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Old 07-21-2006, 05:40 PM   #97
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

If he got the wrong message entirely about one of the most famous stories in the X-men, Who's to say he wont get the wrong message about Hulk, produced by Marvel. Dont give out that there completely different comic's and stories but he just seems to be mental right now.

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Old 07-21-2006, 05:47 PM   #98
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
If he got the wrong message entirely about one of the most famous stories in the X-men, Who's to say he wont get the wrong message about Hulk, produced by Marvel. Dont give out that there completely different comic's and stories but he just seems to be mental right now.
I can accept that there are some things which are ok to interpret or adapt for the screen. But there is a line that you are not allowed to pass. Some things are considered fundamental and those details MUST be kept to preserve the spirit of the story you are working on. It takes skill to know where that line is and how to avoid going across it. Singer, Raimi, and Jackson are very good at this. They also respect the story they are working on and appreciate what it means to the fans. I'm not saying that Ratner is evil, but he's just not good at doing this. And I do agree strongly with whoever said that "adapting comics to screen" is NOT an acceptable excuse for bad writing!

And some of these fundamental elements? Cyclops having beams he can't control and wearing a visor, Xavier being bald and in a wheelchair, Wolverine being angry and having claws, Storm controlling the weather and having white eyes when using her power, Jean having red hair, and of course Jean and Scott's relationship. These are fundamental elements which make the X-Men the X-Men. if you change any of those, it's no longer the X-Men. Same deal with the Phoenix saga. If you turn it into a Jekyl/Hyde monster story, then it's a Jekyl/Hyde monster story, but NOT the Phoenix saga.

I stand by what I said earlier. Psyched out or not, mental blocks notwithstanding, Jean would never, ever do to Scott what we were made to believe she did in X3. Their bond goes beyond love and absolute trust. It's thanks to this bond why they both have been able to survive and get to where they are today. The fact that Scott's fate is PURPOSELY kept vague and gives us hope only supports that notion. To imply she just blew him away because she's so evil or so out of control, while he was doing something that more than anything would help supress the phoenix inside and bring out the good Jean and calm her and let her feel safe, is bizarre and wrong.

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He'd never believed in life after death until Jean had died, and he still wasn't sure what he believed, but he believed in something. Maybe he just believed in her.

Jean: Mom says the only way I can cook is over a bunsen burner.

Last edited by ntcrawler; 07-21-2006 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 07-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #99
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Well said. Even though some changes have to be made for the phoenix saga to be adapted to the big screen, you cant change the central essence or message of the phoenix saga. What we got in X-3 wasnt Phoenix but a reason to blow **** up.

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Old 07-22-2006, 05:12 AM   #100
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Default Re: Where has Scott Summers gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ones
Well said. Even though some changes have to be made for the phoenix saga to be adapted to the big screen, you cant change the central essence or message of the phoenix saga. What we got in X-3 wasnt Phoenix but a reason to blow **** up.
I don't know, you could see a dark essence within her when she was using her powers(not that the phoenix force is actually evil just merciless) it looked like the phoenix was emerging

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