Alan Moore on "The Killing Joke"

[[A]]

(...) I've never really liked my story in The Killing Joke. I think it put far too much melodramatic weight upon a character that was never designed to carry it. It was too nasty, it was too physically violent. There were some good things about it, but in terms of my writing, it's not one of me favorite pieces. If, as I said, god forbid, I was ever writing a character like Batman again, I'd probably be setting it squarely in the kind of “smiley uncle” period where Dick Sprang was drawing it, and where you had Ace the Bat-Hound and Bat-Mite, and the zebra Batman—when it was sillier. Because then, it was brimming with imagination and playful ideas. I don't think that the world needs that many brooding psychopathic avengers. I don't know that we need any. It was a disappointment to me, how Watchmen was absorbed into the mainstream. It had originally been meant as an indication of what people could do that was new. I'd originally thought that with works like Watchmen and Marvelman, I'd be able to say, “Look, this is what you can do with these stale old concepts. You can turn them on their heads. You can really wake them up. Don't be so limited in your thinking. Use your imagination.” And, I was naively hoping that there'd be a rush of fresh and original work by people coming up with their own. But, as I said, it was meant to be something that would liberate comics. Instead, it became this massive stumbling block that comics can't even really seem to get around to this day. They've lost a lot of their original innocence, and they can't get that back. And, they're stuck, it seems, in this kind of depressive ghetto of grimness and psychosis. I'm not too proud of being the author of that regrettable trend.

http://www.mania.com/alan-moore-refl...le_117529.html

[webhead9707]

Didn't See That Coming!

[Cain]

He's absolutely right. Alan Grant had the best approach to writing Batman in the late 80's and that was because he kept a lighthearted type of Batman in a creepy crime ridden city. It was like TAS. There was a balance and not a hint of what the bat comics became by the mid 90's yet.

[[A]]

^ I wanna say something but your avvy is too much

[Indrid Cold]

The most pissy author alive, good, but pissy. It seems to me that any time Alan Moore's work is picked up in any fashion by mainstream media, he's the first to denounce it as "not my favorite", "not very good" or "I wish I wouldn't have written that."

[[A]]

Did he say something like that about Watchmen?

[Venom 1988]

Originally Posted by Body by Joker

The most pissy author alive, good, but pissy. It seems to me that any time Alan Moore's work is picked up in any fashion by mainstream media, he's the first to denounce it as "not my favorite", "not very good" or "I wish I wouldn't have written that."

I'm pretty sure Alan Moore has regarded "The Killing Joke" as his least favorite work for several years now.

[Two-Face]

I don't see why Moore would say something like this. I like The Killing Joke.

[returntovoid]

Originally Posted by Cain

Alan Grant had the best approach to writing Batman in the late 80's and that was because he kept a lighthearted type of Batman in a creepy crime ridden city. It was like TAS. There was a balance

I have not read Alan Grant written Batman stories but the same can be said about the 1970's Dennis O' Neil, Steve Englehart stories and 1939 (minus the killing criminals aspect), 1940-1942 Bill Finger stories.

[Cobblepot]

No Alan Grant's stories are far better written then O'Neil's and Engleharts. Most issues contained a full story and introduced something new to the character. He didn't always write from Batman's perspective which was really refreshing and he made jokes. Alan could do a Batman story that was grimm, but still lighthearted and make reading 'em fun again.

[chamber-music]

Ah Alan Moore!
British cynicism personified

[returntovoid]

Originally Posted by Cobblepot

No Alan Grant's stories are far better written then O'Neil's and Engleharts. Most issues contained a full story and introduced something new to the character. He didn't always write from Batman's perspective which was really refreshing and he made jokes. Alan could do a Batman story that was grimm, but still lighthearted and make reading 'em fun again.

What I meant was that the 1939, early 1940's and 1970's Batman comics had balance. Below I will give examples of some jokes in Denny O' Neil written stories.

In Batman#234, when Batman comes and spooks on Arthur Reeves in Gordon's office, Reeves gets s**t scared and runs out of the office. Then Batman has this smirk on his face and Gordon trying to hold his laughter but can't help cracking up at it.

In Batman #251, The Joker slips on the beach due to the oil dump. Then, Batman starts joking and The Joker is just too humiliated to laugh at it.

That joke is on my signature, below.

[The Batman]

I find it funny that some people here seem to take this kinda personally, that moore dosent consider this book the holy grail like most fans do. I bet frank miller feels the same way about how people reacted to his batman...

[[A]]

I think every artist must feel that way about some of their work.

[Joker]

Most writers are their own worst critics.

[returntovoid]

^What's your avvy from???

[david icke]

This exact quote from the interview was quoted and discussed in the other Killing Joke thread.

Suffice to say, I think Alan Moore got a little embaressed over the attention this short story got over his other works, and that's because it's Batman and The Joker.
He contradicts himslef in the interview, saying he put 'too much melodramatic weight on characters who were not designed to take it', while he did exactly this with Miracleman/Marvelman, the characters from Charlton comics who became the protaganists of Watchmen, and the LOXG. He is asking that writers should take stale old concepts and put a new spin on them, and isn't that exactly what he just did with all those works, TKJ included?
Alan Moore is a great writer, of that there is no doubt, but he lashes out sometimes without making much sense and contradicts himself.

[TruerToTheCore]

It should be noted that TKJ was originally going to become just another Batman Annual.

I don't know, I think Moore has never bashed Watchmen, that's the work he is really proud of. He's never bashed "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow", "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". So I actually believe him in this matter. It was just planned to be "another story". I think Moore could've written a story about Batman raping an elephant back in that era and it would be called a classic.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Body by Joker

The most pissy author alive, good, but pissy. It seems to me that any time Alan Moore's work is picked up in any fashion by mainstream media, he's the first to denounce it as "not my favorite", "not very good" or "I wish I wouldn't have written that."

That might have something to do with him not expecting it to be appreciated by the mainstream. A bit pretentious on his part but that's just my guess.

Originally Posted by Two-Face

I don't see why Moore would say something like this. I like The Killing Joke.

You tend to be your own worst critic, not to mention people's tastes and attitudes change over the years. He may have liked it or thought it was OK back then but over the years realized that it wasn't as good as it could have been.

[Mister J]

I'm not entirely surprised by this, having read Moore comment in a similar fashion before. However, I don't believe I've seen him go into this much detail before. I love the story and it's still one of my favorites for the character dynamics and themes presented.

I get where Moore's coming from about the 'regrettable trend' (some stories seem to try to be mature just for shock value), but the good storytellers can make it work, provided the character allows for it. I think the genre is richer because writers aren't always afraid to take chances. Like with anything else, it can be hit or miss. Beyond that, there still are several books where the stories are light-hearted and fun; still retaining that innocence Moore refers to. I don't see, overall, where the medium is 'stuck' in reveling in depressive tales.

[SuperFerret]

I'd originally thought that with works like Watchmen and Marvelman, I'd be able to say, “Look, this is what you can do with these stale old concepts. You can turn them on their heads. You can really wake them up. Don't be so limited in your thinking. Use your imagination.” And, I was naively hoping that there'd be a rush of fresh and original work by people coming up with their own.

Alan Moore: Optimist? Never thought I'd see the day...

[Joker]

Originally Posted by returntovoid

^What's your avvy from???

Infinite Crisis #7, when Joker kills Alexander Luthor.

[The Batman]

why is everyone trying to make up some kind of justification for him not liking TKJ, as if its impossible just because you dont agree with him? As mentioned before, he dosent talk about his other works the way he does about TKJ, and its not the first time hes bashed it. Maybe he....just dosent like it as a story.

[mothy]

well, he is more than entitled to his opinion.

personally, i love the killing joke to death and still hold it up as one of, if not the, best joker stories out there. with all of that said though, i do think it can be a tad over-rated at times. it's a solid outing, but i rank quite a few other batman comics in front of it.

[[A]]

Originally Posted by returntovoid

^What's your avvy from???

Originally Posted by Joker

Infinite Crisis #7, when Joker kills Alexander Luthor.

Ahem.