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Old 09-13-2017, 08:18 PM   #376
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Then make a thread for that explicit purpose and don't drag comics into it! lol
I made this thread for the purpose of the initial article... I think before I even bothered with the Trump thread (though I might be remembering that wrong... it was close though).

And it wouldn't matter if I DID create a pro-Trump thread. People like those in the current Trump thread would just go in there and belittle people too. People like that can't help themselves. So why bother?


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Old 09-13-2017, 08:26 PM   #377
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Ok, now for the reason I came here. I just had to vent about that guy Aubrey Sitterson and his 9/11 tweet and doubling down, AND people that defend him. We live in a time that if someone in his position simply tweeted "I support President Trump", not only would people demand that he be fired (for supporting "bigotry"), but he WOULD be fired. But somehow, what Sitterson tweeted was not only not that bad, but he really had a good point if you look at it from his perspective. If you don't know the tweet, it reads:

"Oh good, it's Self-Centered National Tragedy Remembrance from People Who Weren't Even Anywhere Near New York City Day."

Obviously a dumb thing to say, and totally unjustifiable. I'm getting these quotes from Bleeding Cool btw, who can't help but sound like this is a completely silly "controversy" for them. I won't link it though, because I assume that they are a competitor to SSH, and I think the article is dumb.

Here's the justification from someone within IDW, probably Sitterson himself:
"“Aubrey was living in New York on September 11, 2001 and like many New Yorkers who saw their city attacked and who breathed in the dust of the wreckage and the dying, he at times finds it hard to take when people who didn’t have that direct connection, that direct suffering, make statements that imply their suffering was as bad. Yes, the entire country was attacked but we do see how people who were so directly impacted as New Yorkers can take exception to people who want to likewise connect to the event in the same way. The connection for everyone is there—like I say, everyone was attacked on that day—but it obviously hit New York and New Yorkers more directly."

First I have to ask, is Sitterson a New Yorker, or is he just someone who moved to New York. Because as a native New Yorker, going back many generations, I take issue to people labeling themselves as a New Yorker when their only connection to New York is that it's now their new address. But I was a New Yorker living outside Washington DC so 9/11 doesn't count here, clearly being so far away from NYC.

Then this gem:
"Sorry you found what he said offensive". Isn't the whole Liberal emphasis on feelings supposed to be, "It's not the person who was offended's fault, it's the offender's fault".

I don't read GI Joe, so I can really boycott them, and I don't believe somebody should get fired based on their opinions, but, like I said, if someone tweeted "I support President Trump", they would be gone because Liberals absolutely do believe someone should be fired based on their opinions. So in the interest of fairness, and to see if Liberals stick to their own rules, I am really curious what actions IDW will take.
I've not heard this, but I don't expect any sort of repercussion. Liberals aren't held to the same standards as conservatives in liberal dominated environments such as the comic book world (though I admittedly know nothing of IDW).

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Old 09-13-2017, 08:44 PM   #378
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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People call try and call that Diversity & Comics guy a troll but if you watch his entire line of blogs/videos then you know he tells the truth and knows his stuff. He's funny and well informed. He does speak for the older generation of fans. Maybe it's a "over 35 years old" type thing.

It is amazing just how many Youtubers are taking note and lashing out at Marvel for all their SJW agenda ridiculousness. "SJW Marvel" is indeed starting to become their official title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97vuDwMS-l0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCWCQynEcXI&t=327s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2TsCwtYmpQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wEIezlF10Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcjMQ4r0fDk

At least we old school fans who they intentionally drove away have a forum to complain and to crow that we told you so. As one of those guys put it, if Marvel is going to die because of activist writers then let it be chronicled for all to see.
It's not a diversity problem any of us "old school" fans are complaining about. It's the fact that these allegedly diverse new characters are one dimensional nonsense characters. They are defined by ONE trait (be it gay, black, whatever) and written with a particular agenda to promote. No depth at all.

At the same time, traditional established characters are cast aside or misused. Now, "Generations" is being pushed not as a way to bring back established characters that BUILT the Marvel Universe but as a way to double down on the SJW nonsense and validate bad creative decisions.

Anyone that needs someone to look like them in order to identify with them is frankly a moron. Why court a "new" moron fan base when the numbers are that low?

Marvel has NEVER has had a diversity problem. EX: What they did decades ago with Captain Marvel was masterful with NO politics at play... just good storytelling. Monica Rambeau's Captain Marvel was a fan favorite. She was powerful and interesting and refreshing back in the day and oh by the way BLACK. She led the Avengers at one point as did The Wasp and fans like me applauded and ate it up.

Now, Marvel is hiring people based on factors other than talent. It's been exposed by those youtube channels and it's embarrassing for Marvel to say the least. They have traded in the work of better people that built Marvel in to something great in order to promote a current political stance. That in and of itself is a pure crime.

Bottom line is that sales are horrible and people like me went from buying 30+ Marvel books a month to currently 3. As long as these creative teams are in place and on Twitter bragging about their agenda I'll NEVER come back in to the fold. How is that smart business in any way?

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Old 09-13-2017, 08:56 PM   #379
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I think the bad writers are the white straight dudes, not the "diversity hires", in your words.

Give me G. Willow Wilson over Nick Spencer.

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Old 09-13-2017, 09:06 PM   #380
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Ok, now for the reason I came here. I just had to vent about that guy Aubrey Sitterson and his 9/11 tweet and doubling down, AND people that defend him. We live in a time that if someone in his position simply tweeted "I support President Trump", not only would people demand that he be fired (for supporting "bigotry"), but he WOULD be fired. But somehow, what Sitterson tweeted was not only not that bad, but he really had a good point if you look at it from his perspective. If you don't know the tweet, it reads:

"Oh good, it's Self-Centered National Tragedy Remembrance from People Who Weren't Even Anywhere Near New York City Day."

Obviously a dumb thing to say, and totally unjustifiable. I'm getting these quotes from Bleeding Cool btw, who can't help but sound like this is a completely silly "controversy" for them. I won't link it though, because I assume that they are a competitor to SSH, and I think the article is dumb.

Here's the justification from someone within IDW, probably Sitterson himself:
"“Aubrey was living in New York on September 11, 2001 and like many New Yorkers who saw their city attacked and who breathed in the dust of the wreckage and the dying, he at times finds it hard to take when people who didn’t have that direct connection, that direct suffering, make statements that imply their suffering was as bad. Yes, the entire country was attacked but we do see how people who were so directly impacted as New Yorkers can take exception to people who want to likewise connect to the event in the same way. The connection for everyone is there—like I say, everyone was attacked on that day—but it obviously hit New York and New Yorkers more directly."

First I have to ask, is Sitterson a New Yorker, or is he just someone who moved to New York. Because as a native New Yorker, going back many generations, I take issue to people labeling themselves as a New Yorker when their only connection to New York is that it's now their new address. But I was a New Yorker living outside Washington DC so 9/11 doesn't count here, clearly being so far away from NYC.

Then this gem:
"Sorry you found what he said offensive". Isn't the whole Liberal emphasis on feelings supposed to be, "It's not the person who was offended's fault, it's the offender's fault".

I don't read GI Joe, so I can really boycott them, and I don't believe somebody should get fired based on their opinions, but, like I said, if someone tweeted "I support President Trump", they would be gone because Liberals absolutely do believe someone should be fired based on their opinions. So in the interest of fairness, and to see if Liberals stick to their own rules, I am really curious what actions IDW will take.
So much tone deaf paranoid and clueless natural fertilizer in such a small package. Bravo, obviously not a 37 year old who voted Democratic Party until 2016.

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Old 09-13-2017, 09:14 PM   #381
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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So much tone deaf paranoid and clueless natural fertilizer in such a small package. Bravo, obviously not a 37 year old who voted Democratic Party until 2016.
I see you're a master of the inane comment because you are incapable of an actual reasonable response.

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Old 09-13-2017, 11:25 PM   #382
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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It's not a diversity problem any of us "old school" fans are complaining about. It's the fact that these allegedly diverse new characters are one dimensional nonsense characters. They are defined by ONE trait (be it gay, black, whatever) and written with a particular agenda to promote. No depth at all.
I can't say that I've read even half of what Marvel has produced over the last couple years (I'm one of those old schoolers who prefers big collected editions) since Marvel has shifted to new lead characters. However, I have yet to see evidence of this supposed SJW, singular-trait approach to characters.

Riri is a character who is written correctly. She's got the positive aspect of being a resourceful genius, which is tempered by the underdeveloped emotions of a typical teenager. She's brave, but also a little narcissistic. I can understand fans who think Tony Stark is being underutilized, but Ironheart is a strong edition to the Marvel mythos.

I can't say that every new Marvel lead has been done correctly (Totally Awesome Hulk comes to mind) in this push for fresh characters. However, when I've seen people provide comic panel examples of a so-called "agenda" at Marvel, I've only seen the usual hit-and-miss writing that comics have always had.

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Old 09-14-2017, 12:14 AM   #383
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Well, as correctly as anyone is written by Bendis is, anyway.

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Old 09-14-2017, 04:36 AM   #384
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I can't say that I've read even half of what Marvel has produced over the last couple years (I'm one of those old schoolers who prefers big collected editions) since Marvel has shifted to new lead characters. However, I have yet to see evidence of this supposed SJW, singular-trait approach to characters.

Riri is a character who is written correctly. She's got the positive aspect of being a resourceful genius, which is tempered by the underdeveloped emotions of a typical teenager. She's brave, but also a little narcissistic. I can understand fans who think Tony Stark is being underutilized, but Ironheart is a strong edition to the Marvel mythos.

I can't say that every new Marvel lead has been done correctly (Totally Awesome Hulk comes to mind) in this push for fresh characters. However, when I've seen people provide comic panel examples of a so-called "agenda" at Marvel, I've only seen the usual hit-and-miss writing that comics have always had.
I too don't read them, so don't really care. But what I've heard, it's pretty cringey SJW nonsense.

Top of that list is that these writers are a bunch of young SJWs themselves that are openly hostile to the fanbase that doesn't agree with the direction they are taking the characters. "Oh, you don't like what we're doing with our awesomely diverse characters? That's because you're a racist, sexist, whatever-ist, and we don't want you as fans". Okay, then I won't be.

Nobody dislikes diversity. The second team of X-Men were all about diversity, and they are some of the most popular comic characters. And they were original characters.

Why not make original characters? Why co-opt existing characters? I think I know why, and I'll get to that. Plus these characters come off as Mary Sues.

Asian Hulk is a super genius with all the powers of the Hulk as a hip teen, but none of those pesky rage issue baggage. Also, he's Asian.

Iron-Man Girl is a super genius who decided she wants to become Iron-Man, just because. Who needs things like being captured and almost killed by terrorists, or having to over come alcoholism? Nah, Grrl Power. Also, she's black.

Thor's girlfriend steals his identity, becomes him. That's just creepy.

Worst of all, Captain AMERICA is now a NAZI. Coincidence, or response to Trump becoming President?

Why do I think this co-opting of existing characters is happening? Because Phase Three of the MCU is coming to a close and contracts are expiring. So what are Marvel's choices for their biggest characters? Renegotiate new contracts with higher pay, if the actors are even willing to come back. Recast the characters, having to deal negativity regarding the new actors, AND have the negativity of having more white people in these movies. Or plug in their all new/all diverse characters.

This is going to bite Marvel in the ass. There was already PC "controversy" that the new Spiderman movie was once again Peter Parker, and not Miles Morales. So if a new Iron-Man movie comes out, and RDJ is done, the expectation will be, "Use Riri Williams", even though she's only been a character for what, two years? Fans don't like her, and the general audience would be kind of bewildered.

Combine that with the superhero movie crazy getting close to 20 years old now (how old is SSH?), and no trend last forever. I've seen the words "superhero fatigue" for a while. Things might start to dovetail after Infinity Wars (seriously, where are you going to go after that?). And of course, if that happens, it will be blamed on America being too racist to accept diverse characters.

And what really kind of irks me, is that these young SJW comic book writers, who really don't seem to care about comics or their fans, will probably have a lasting presence in the industry. They will have their niche fans, they will be invited to comic panels, they will have Marvel in their resume, and their names will be mentioned when historians talk about this period in comics, for better or worse. And it only irks me because I've never had the intention of getting into the industry. If I had been a life long comic book fan with dreams of working in the industry, that would sicken me.

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Old 09-14-2017, 01:45 PM   #385
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I've not heard this, but I don't expect any sort of repercussion. Liberals aren't held to the same standards as conservatives in liberal dominated environments such as the comic book world (though I admittedly know nothing of IDW).
Double standards cut both ways, you deride liberals for lumping all Trump supporters together, while SIMULTANEOUSLY talking about all liberals as one big mass

For instance, im clearly very liberal, but also not a huge fan of the current diversity push, and am a believer in diveristy being presented in a creative and natural way that doesnt require the name of a more famous character to get peoples attention. Am i a straight white male? Yes, so some might dismiss my viewpoint. But i felt its been a bit of 'too much too soon' rather than 'rabble rabble nobody likes these damn minorities!"

So you see, theres a diverse range of opinions here on the hype, and all around the country. Those opinions can be horrifically, hysterically wrong... but all we can do is discuss em

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Old 09-14-2017, 06:59 PM   #386
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Double standards cut both ways, you deride liberals for lumping all Trump supporters together, while SIMULTANEOUSLY talking about all liberals as one big mass

For instance, im clearly very liberal, but also not a huge fan of the current diversity push, and am a believer in diveristy being presented in a creative and natural way that doesnt require the name of a more famous character to get peoples attention. Am i a straight white male? Yes, so some might dismiss my viewpoint. But i felt its been a bit of 'too much too soon' rather than 'rabble rabble nobody likes these damn minorities!"

So you see, theres a diverse range of opinions here on the hype, and all around the country. Those opinions can be horrifically, hysterically wrong... but all we can do is discuss em
Oh, I wasn't criticizing liberals in general. I'm typically very careful to not lump you all together as I know a couple really good liberals. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise. I'm referring more to organizations or collections of "important" people that lean far left. Comic book companies, MSM, Hollywood, etc. That sort of thing. Not normal people who are just living their lives.

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Old 09-15-2017, 11:05 AM   #387
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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So you see, theres a diverse range of opinions here on the hype, and all around the country. Those opinions can be horrifically, hysterically wrong... but all we can do is discuss em
Such an important point that many people often don't take into account

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Old 09-16-2017, 04:41 AM   #388
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Double standards cut both ways, you deride liberals for lumping all Trump supporters together, while SIMULTANEOUSLY talking about all liberals as one big mass

For instance, im clearly very liberal, but also not a huge fan of the current diversity push, and am a believer in diveristy being presented in a creative and natural way that doesnt require the name of a more famous character to get peoples attention. Am i a straight white male? Yes, so some might dismiss my viewpoint. But i felt its been a bit of 'too much too soon' rather than 'rabble rabble nobody likes these damn minorities!"

So you see, theres a diverse range of opinions here on the hype, and all around the country. Those opinions can be horrifically, hysterically wrong... but all we can do is discuss em
You don't even have to support Trump. To some people, if you aren't against Trump, that means you are for him. And if you aren't for diversity, you are against it.

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Old 09-17-2017, 04:32 PM   #389
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This Hydra Cap and SJW push/agenda is designed to make real fans angry but since we tuned out long ago it generates nothing but more poor sales and a giant "MEH" from most people.

Until Marvel fires the hate mongering ultra-liberals that run the show most of us will never go back. They can crap on legends all they want at this point.

"If Cap *****s in the woods but no one sees it, did it happen?"

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Old 09-17-2017, 06:19 PM   #390
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I think it is important to point out that Spencer got just as much, if not more, criticism from the left over Secret Empire. There are a lot of problematic things that he did. Especially, from what I saw of the ending.

Let's just say, Nick Spencer was trying to be smarter than he was. And way too self absorbed to accept criticism.

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Old 09-17-2017, 11:38 PM   #391
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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This Hydra Cap and SJW push/agenda is designed to make real fans angry but since we tuned out long ago it generates nothing but more poor sales and a giant "MEH" from most people.

Until Marvel fires the hate mongering ultra-liberals that run the show most of us will never go back. They can crap on legends all they want at this point.
"
I really think Marvel has planned all of this to be cyclical, ending with classic lead re-launches to coincide with Infinity War. This feels a lot like the early 90s where DC changed or replaced all of their icons for years. The status quo always reasserts itself, but when it does, sometimes there are new and interesting characters or events for writers to play with while the old guard characters were away.

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Old 09-18-2017, 12:04 AM   #392
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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This Hydra Cap and SJW push/agenda is designed to make real fans angry but since we tuned out long ago it generates nothing but more poor sales and a giant "MEH" from most people.

Until Marvel fires the hate mongering ultra-liberals that run the show most of us will never go back. They can crap on legends all they want at this point.

"If Cap *****s in the woods but no one sees it, did it happen?"
Designed to make "real fans" angry? First off, a fan is a fan. One is not more real than the other. Second, Marvel gains nothing from making a point to anger fans. Which is to say, they didn't do it by design. Lastly, Secret Empire has been one of Marvel's best selling books during its entire run, every issue being in the top ten of comics sold that month.

So, pretty much everything you just said is completely false.

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Old Yesterday, 09:28 PM   #393
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Designed to make "real fans" angry? First off, a fan is a fan. One is not more real than the other. Second, Marvel gains nothing from making a point to anger fans. Which is to say, they didn't do it by design. Lastly, Secret Empire has been one of Marvel's best selling books during its entire run, every issue being in the top ten of comics sold that month.

So, pretty much everything you just said is completely false.
Top ten of sales slump means what exactly? Marvel is selling at all-time lows and that's a fact. The debate is actual sales. Marvel counts shipped titles. So, if they ship copies NO COST to shop owners or as promotions they count as sales. They are notorious for padding stats. Plus, shop owners can't return books. What they order they have to eat. Where do you buy your books in Motown? I bet they have copies upon copies they cant give away of Secret Empire. Talk to your comic shop owner/worker. I do and Comix Corner (Rochester Hills and Fraser) tells me Marvel sales are in the toilet.

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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM   #394
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People call try and call that Diversity & Comics guy a troll but if you watch his entire line of blogs/videos then you know he tells the truth and knows his stuff. He's funny and well informed. He does speak for the older generation of fans. Maybe it's a "over 35 years old" type thing.

It is amazing just how many Youtubers are taking note and lashing out at Marvel for all their SJW agenda ridiculousness. "SJW Marvel" is indeed starting to become their official title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97vuDwMS-l0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCWCQynEcXI&t=327s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2TsCwtYmpQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wEIezlF10Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcjMQ4r0fDk

At least we old school fans who they intentionally drove away have a forum to complain and to crow that we told you so. As one of those guys put it, if Marvel is going to die because of activist writers then let it be chronicled for all to see.
A link to add that really sums up why most of us hate Nick Spencer and what he has done to Marvel and, by extension what SJW Marvel means in general. Don't even try and tell me this isn't done on purpose to piss off fans. (As MCU Cap would say...*language* warning) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DdBqJzgoiU

Spencer whining about alleged Fascism in the USA and his "gaslighting" techniques.

Just Some Guy Says...

"How warped is your mind that you pat yourself on the back for ruining someone to teach the fans a lesson. You're like the mom that starves her child and then brags about helping the kid lose weight when the kid has an eating disorder. You're like the dad that beats his son and then brags about how he toughened him up. You're like the pervert who rapes a child then brags about teaching the kid about modesty and betrayal when he grows up and confronts them. You used a beloved character to tear down fans and attack your political opponents. Now that those people are jaded and distrustful, you're boasting about how you taught them a valuable lesson? Get off your high horse, Nick. You're NOT the hero. You're the bargain basement villain. This is pure narcissism. There's no self awareness in this man. No understanding of what he's done or how its hurt the fans or the industry."

"I get it, Nick. It doesn't feel good to have most of the comic book fandom hating you. It probably doesn't feel good that your 'super awesome' diatribe against Trump fell flat. You expected everyone to love your hate letter to a so-called Fascist nation. Instead, it was the lowest selling Marvel continuity event in years. The orders were lower that any major Marvel event and at best you may have sold two-thirds of the over shipped books. (Actual sales are way lower because comic book shop owners are forced to eat extra copies they don't sell) You probably only sold half the orders. That's why your own co-workers call you 'Thick Spencer'... you don't know when to stop. Some damaged part of you makes you keep trying to hit people."


This YouTuber goes on to precisely list and take apart Nick Spencer's Tweets and hate mongering. He points out his hypocrisy and double standards.

Just like far too many of SJW Marvel's hires in recent years. It's in part about trying to bully a loyal fan base while promoting a political or social agenda.

And this isn't about believing in the other side of the political fence. As the video pointed out towards the end, last year Chris Evans dressed up as Cap and visited sick kids in the hospital. Evans himself is a staunch liberal and Trump hater. Yet the actor doesn't insist on turning the character in to something it's not. Evans brought joy just by showing up in the costume. Spencer did his best and is STILL trying to piss all over that cherished character.

Marvel is allowing this to happen far too often across their line. Having far left extremist writers bend and disgrace decades of work and continuity to first and foremost promote an agenda.

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Old Yesterday, 10:43 PM   #395
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Again, I should point out that Spencer didn't exactly make liberals happy. Blaming Spencer's bad writing as a side effect of his liberal ideas is idiotic.

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Old Today, 12:32 AM   #396
Motown Marvel
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Detroit Rock City
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
Top ten of sales slump means what exactly? Marvel is selling at all-time lows and that's a fact. The debate is actual sales. Marvel counts shipped titles. So, if they ship copies NO COST to shop owners or as promotions they count as sales. They are notorious for padding stats. Plus, shop owners can't return books. What they order they have to eat. Where do you buy your books in Motown? I bet they have copies upon copies they cant give away of Secret Empire. Talk to your comic shop owner/worker. I do and Comix Corner (Rochester Hills and Fraser) tells me Marvel sales are in the toilet.
I am the comic shop worker, I order the books, I receive the books, I sell the books, I know how this all works better than most. Marvel shipping extra books at no cost is far more rare than you suggest and does not happen in the numbers you think. Yes, Marvel's sales are down right now, as they are for every publisher. It is an industry wide problem, not a Marvel problem. And yes, non-returnability is aiding in those slumps, severely. But none of this has to do with liberal writers and diversity. Rather, specifically with Marvel, it is the constant renumbering, the overly incestuous universe, the never ending events cycle, overpriced comics and trades, and non-returnability. On the retail side of business, the problem is comic shops looking like dimly lit unorganized attics with their windows covered in sun-bleached posters left over from the 90's, the boys-club-holier-than-thou attitude which makes female readers and new readers feel uncomfortable and uninvited, no all ages sections, a scant selection of books outside of the big two/superheroes, and being void of any real customer service for those who may require it. These are the things customers complain about, all day. Not diversity or any perceived liberal agenda of the creators.

But these are things you don't want to accept because they do not support what you wish to be true, because if you cannot justify your anti-diversity position with any other reason than you are simply against diversity, that would mean you are being racist. So, go on believing Nick Spencer is single handedly destroying the entire comic industry. Because that is far more reasonable, I'm sure.

P.S. I sold the hell out of Secret Empire.


Last edited by Motown Marvel; Today at 12:40 AM.
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