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Old 03-18-2012, 02:21 PM   #226
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Flash memory is hardly expensive at the sizes needed to store games. Huge benefits are that the read-times are near instantaneous (load times begone) and they're a lot less likely to be damaged from the environment.

The only downside from this method would be the lack of BD support, but this is a gaming console first. Priorities should be given to the content the system was made for.
I never realized that about Flash Memory,I love being able to play DVD's&CD's and I sure love Blu-Ray's as I mostly use my PS3 for it and so I'd sell my PS3&360 for the new Xbox with one reason being for Blu-Ray,However..

It is indeed a gaming system and I'd take less loading times for games,Plus at least it'd probably still have apps like Netflix and able to use flash drive USB's to hear music(perhaps even now able to store content into the hard drive like music/videos/etc)!!

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Old 03-18-2012, 03:06 PM   #227
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but this is a gaming console first. Priorities should be given to the content the system was made for.
I'm sorry, but no. Maybe the 360 was a game console first in 2005, but it's so much more than that today, to the point where Microsoft claimed that the majority of activity on Xbox comes from Netflix and other apps, not games. If you think Microsoft is going to abandon that direction with their next console then you're crazy.

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Old 03-18-2012, 03:10 PM   #228
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I'm sorry, but no. Maybe the 360 was a game console first in 2005, but it's so much more than that today, to the point where Microsoft claimed that the majority of activity on Xbox comes from Netflix and other apps, not games. If you think Microsoft is going to abandon that direction with their next console then you're crazy.
What does flash storage have to do with any of that? The lack of disc support omits Blu-Rays and DVDs. That's it. Microsoft's content direction is via the cloud. As is every other media company today.

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Old 03-18-2012, 03:26 PM   #229
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I'm 100% fine with not being able to play DVDs/Blu-Rays. I have a Blu-Ray player and by the X-Box solely for games. And using the gaming systems for playing DVDs/Blu-Rays uses more than twice the electricity than a stand alone player.

They did a study on power usage somewhere, I cant remember exactly.

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Old 03-18-2012, 05:43 PM   #230
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I still fully believe that we will get two sku's. One without a disk drive for digital downloads and one with.

The one with will be a bit expensive. Digital gaming and cloud storage will be huge next gen.

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Old 03-18-2012, 05:46 PM   #231
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Default Re: The next Xbox

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Originally Posted by KRIM View Post
Flash memory is hardly expensive at the sizes needed to store games. Huge benefits are that the read-times are near instantaneous (load times begone) and they're a lot less likely to be damaged from the environment.

The only downside from this method would be the lack of BD support, but this is a gaming console first. Priorities should be given to the content the system was made for.
Michael Pachter says it best:

"Flash memory costs at least $10 for 15 GB to manufacture, versus the $0.70 for a DVD and $2 for a Blu-ray DVD. The rumor is complete crap."

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Old 03-18-2012, 05:51 PM   #232
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The rumor of a “digital only” console refuses to die. We’ve heard about Steam releasing a console-like device that would use Valve’s digital distribution service to deliver games to customers. Then came the rumor that the newest Xbox console would ship with no disc drive, and would rely on a combination of memory cards and digital distribution to deliver games.

These rumors are ********. The world is not ready for an all-digital console, and the United States would specifically present a number of challenges for any company that hopes to rely on digital sales. We’re not saying that this won’t happen in the future, but it is safe to say that we’re a long way from losing discs. How can we be so sure?

You Lose a Large Chunk of the Market Right Off the Bat
Broadband adoption in the United States stands at 81 percent, according to a “State of the Internet” report released by Akamai in January of this year. The US ranked 13th in average connection speed in the world, with South Korea and Hong Kong taking the first and second slots for speed, respectively. According to those numbers, you’d lose 19 percent of your potential market on a purely-digital delivery mechanism.

It gets worse when you look at things among economic and geographical lines. “In rural America, only 60 percent of households use broadband Internet service, according to a report released Thursday by the Department of Commerce. That is 10 percent less than urban households,” the New York Times reported. “Over all, 28 percent of Americans do not use the Internet at all.”

This creates a sort of division through American culture that is beginning to impact many parts of life, and its doubtful video games as an industry are in a rush to join that split. There are plenty of people who want to buy new games, but don’t have access to affordable broadband. There are also smaller implications: video games are a popular way of passing the time for soldiers stationed overseas. Downloading a 10GB game from Afghanistan would be quite the trick.

Even if Your Home is Wired, Your Console May Not Be
“The real point is that a digital-only box excludes people who aren’t connected, or who don’t want to connect. A lot of people have consoles in basements without Wi-Fi or Internet access,” Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter told the Penny Arcade Report. “At least 15 percent of high-definition consoles are not connected to the Internet, and requiring game downloads would be suicide.” The last rumor stated that the new Xbox console may get rid of a disc drive in favor of memory cards, but Pachter doesn’t believe it for a second. “Flash memory costs at least $10 for 15 GB to manufacture, versus the $0.70 for a DVD and $2 for a Blu-ray DVD. The rumor is complete crap,” he said.

The other issue is the fact that retailers could refuse to stock the hardware if there isn’t enough of a profit margin to justify the shelf space. “This isn’t like the iPhone, which has data and voice plans to sell and planned obsolescence every 9 months, or even like other hardware, where you buy multiple TVs, or iPods,” Pachter said. “Here, we’re talking about one device every five years. If there is no software to sell, retailers won’t support it, and the competition would exploit their weakness by offering disc drives.”

Think of it this way: players who enjoy trading in their games or don’t want to download their games would simply find the one system that did offer a disc drive. It would make that feature desirable, instead of being expected. “Without collusion, Sony would likely exploit this, meaning Microsoft wouldn’t attempt [a discless console],” Pachter said.

Data Caps!
Downloading games takes time and bandwidth. Many ISPs are now placing data caps on customers, and will either throttle your download speeds or charge extra if you go over your allotment. This is bad news for people who want to download games that may be more than 10GB in size. If you knew buying a $60 game would cost you an extra few bucks in Internet fees, would you still buy it?

According to some, these data caps won’t be going away. “Over a period of years, as the market becomes more accustomed to (usage-based pricing), we expect these plans to become the rule rather than the exception,” Sanford Bernstein’s Craig Moffett wrote in a research note to his investor clients, as reported by StopTheCap.

The site also noted that companies that use a large amount of bandwidth may become targets for fees from ISPs. “Netflix itself is also battling an Internet Overcharging scheme it faces — double-dipping by cable operators like Comcast,” Phillip Dampier reported. “In addition to the fees Comcast collects from customers for its broadband service, the cable operator also wants to be paid directly by Netflix to allow the movie service’s traffic on its network.” Does Valve want to deal with ISPs asking for payment in exchange for moving large amounts of game data? Does anyone?

Besides, the situation is even more dire in other parts of the world. Digital distribution is much less appealing if it takes more time than running to the store and adds to the cost of buying games.

It Won't Happen Because It Doesn't Need to Happen
Digital delivery is going to become a more popular option next generation. But that’s what it will be: An option. No one is stupid enough to require it.

While it’s possible that Microsoft wants to use some new form of storage to sell games, it is unlikely and would create extra costs that would may be passed on to consumers, for very little benefit. It’s important that each console use a standard with enough storage to avoid swapping discs, but that’s all.

Pushing digital as a primary delivery mechanism screws Americans with slow or expensive Internet connections. It would also be a middle finger to soldiers stationed overseas trying to play modern games. It would hurt people who don’t keep their systems connected to the Internet. It would piss off large swaths of the market. Microsoft has no reason to remove its disc drive and give its competitors an instant advantage. And a Steam Box with a disc drive is arguably not even a console at all, but rather just a miniature computer. We’re going to be using discs for the majority of our console-based gaming for a long time, even if the standards change. Don’t believe the hype.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...ess-xbox-rumor

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Old 03-18-2012, 06:23 PM   #233
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Default Re: The next Xbox

Yeah, right now MS is touting the Xbox line as their all in one thing. Games, PC, entertainment center, etc.

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Old 03-18-2012, 10:19 PM   #234
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Hippie, you're acting like digital downloads are this niche little thing and kind of ignoring the enormous popularity of Steam, Origin, D2D, GOG, and many other services on PC, not to mention how digital downloads completely dominate the music industry, but whatever.

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Old 03-19-2012, 08:30 AM   #235
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Default Re: The next Xbox

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Hippie, you're acting like digital downloads are this niche little thing and kind of ignoring the enormous popularity of Steam, Origin, D2D, GOG, and many other services on PC, not to mention how digital downloads completely dominate the music industry, but whatever.
I think he's talking digital-only systems. Digital is the future for sure but PC users still have the option for discs alongside use of Steam. The new XBox will embrace digital fully but taking out discs altogether is a separate decision.

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Old 03-19-2012, 08:39 PM   #236
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I think he's talking digital-only systems. Digital is the future for sure but PC users still have the option for discs alongside use of Steam. The new XBox will embrace digital fully but taking out discs altogether is a separate decision.
Exactly. Digital has to be embraced, it is not some niche thing going on. But to completely get rid of physical media at this stage is suicide. The next consoles from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo need to be a hybrid of both digital and physical. Forgetting one or the other will ruin it.

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Old 03-20-2012, 05:37 PM   #237
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I hope the next X-Box has a peripheral that gives HJs.

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Old 03-20-2012, 06:11 PM   #238
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It'd be neat if they made it so we can mod it out like a computer but with parts specifically made by Microsoft/Sony respectively for these systems.

Like better graphics card, ram, drives etc.

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Old 03-20-2012, 06:16 PM   #239
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No that wouldnt. That would be a complete mess. Developers have a hard enough time developing for more than one platform bc of different specs. Just imagine if within one console, there's multiple specs and variations to worry about. Theres already the possibility to upgrade HDD but dont expect anything more technical than that. They all need to have the same baseline to work with or else they run the risk of fracturing their potential userbase

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Old 03-20-2012, 06:20 PM   #240
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Good point.

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Old 03-21-2012, 12:30 AM   #241
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My main reasons why a only digital download console wont work is the data caps from isp's, not everyone has high-speed internet, and they wouldnt want to piss off brick and mortar stores. Stores like GameStop and Wal-Mart wont want to use real estate to display the consoles if they wont be making money off of the software.

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Old 03-21-2012, 12:35 AM   #242
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My main reasons why a only digital download console wont work is the data caps from isp's, not everyone has high-speed internet, and they wouldnt want to piss off brick and mortar stores. Stores like GameStop and Wal-Mart wont want to use real estate to display the consoles if they wont be making money off of the software.
Actually, GameStop and Wal-Mart really don't make much money off of the hardware or software.

GameSpot makes all of their profits from the used game market, while stores like Wal-Mart and Target basically make no profit from most major Electronics items (in fact, if you see a TV on sale for 30 dollars at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart is actually losing 30 dollars with every sale).

The only reason Wal-Mart and Target carry things like video games is merely to get people into the store where they will buy things like clothing and home goods that are marked up 40-60%. That's were all of their profits come from.

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Old 03-21-2012, 12:51 AM   #243
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No that wouldnt. That would be a complete mess. Developers have a hard enough time developing for more than one platform bc of different specs. Just imagine if within one console, there's multiple specs and variations to worry about. Theres already the possibility to upgrade HDD but dont expect anything more technical than that. They all need to have the same baseline to work with or else they run the risk of fracturing their potential userbase
I just want more visual customization, and not just faceplates.

I want to change the color of the lights of my console without going thorugh some process.

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Old 03-21-2012, 01:02 AM   #244
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Actually, GameStop and Wal-Mart really don't make much money off of the hardware or software.

GameSpot makes all of their profits from the used game market, while stores like Wal-Mart and Target basically make no profit from most major Electronics items (in fact, if you see a TV on sale for 30 dollars at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart is actually losing 30 dollars with every sale).

The only reason Wal-Mart and Target carry things like video games is merely to get people into the store where they will buy things like clothing and home goods that are marked up 40-60%. That's were all of their profits come from.
Which is ANOTHER reason they wont support a digital-download only system. They will just devote more shelf space to the other systems that choose not to go that route.

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Old 03-21-2012, 01:47 AM   #245
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While video game software and hardware doesn't hold any profit margin for retailers, video game peripherals and online gaming cards actually DO have a sizable profit margin. Video game controllers are often marked up anywhere from 30-50%, and the profit margin on gaming cards is in the 30% range.

It's perfectly feasible that Microsoft could keep video game retailers still satisfied with a steady stream of new peripherals and the massive increase in gaming cards that an all-digital system would usher in.

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Last edited by CConn; 03-21-2012 at 02:22 AM. Reason: Ugh. Fine, I'll be sophisticated.
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:54 AM   #246
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Wow, you got a mighty big opinion of yourself there.

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Old 03-21-2012, 02:03 AM   #247
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Then prove me wrong.

Show me some facts that you didn't pull from my own posts.

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Old 03-21-2012, 02:09 AM   #248
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I wasnt commenting on the argument/difference of opinions. I just think it's funny how you so readily talk down to someone you dont even know over something so trivial as differing opinions on gaming consoles. I just prefer debating with people without talking to them like they're a child.

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Old 03-21-2012, 02:12 AM   #249
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No, you're deflecting the conversation because you have nothing to counter with.

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Old 03-21-2012, 02:32 AM   #250
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No, I gave you my opinion and you gave me yours. I was genuinely amused at the way you responded. I still believe that they will never make a digital only system but dont feel the need to continue trying to convince people who dont. Your last response was similarly condescending. Sorry if you feel otherwise.

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