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Old 11-09-2012, 06:43 AM   #251
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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So what is the difference between this... and a cheap fine and insurance that can't discriminate on preconditions?
What you get when you pay a fine is just emergency services. If you need long term care you will either have to pay for it yourself (which would be very expensive) or get insurance (which will be more expensive with the pre-existing condition). You want to get insurance when you are healthy not when you are sick. Not smart at all.

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Old 11-09-2012, 06:47 AM   #252
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

Can anyone tell me what's worng with Florida.

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:39 AM   #253
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

Who cut one?

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:40 AM   #254
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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Until the economy improves for that demographic, it is not happening. The fine is more attractive than paying premiums. This isn't Massachusetts, you have an array of youths across the country. Not as affluent, not in rich organizations.

The young get screwed first, the older ones will hold on to jobs to pay off the debts and their mortgages they are counting the young to buy (house equity = retirement). The same jobs that the young were suppose to take.
Like I said, the fines will only be more attractive as long as the premiums are substantially higher. Once that condition no longer holds, you will see that young people will make the rational choice of going for the slightly more expensive insurance than paying some arbitrary fine and getting diddly squat in return, and this is especially true in an economic downturn when people are far more prudent about what they actually get for their money rather than just giving it away to the government.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #255
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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Stop subsidizing the crap crop known as corn.
Its that simple?

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:38 AM   #256
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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Its that simple?

No, I want my HFCS in my soda/mountain dew.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:40 AM   #257
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

What I don't undestand is why after being outclassed in the groundgame area in 2008 the GOP did not take notes from the Obama campaign. They should have least tried to replicate what the Dems did right but I did not a see a learning curve at all this time. They canvassed in the same old fashion and were overwhelmed. It's like what Wellington said about the French at Waterloo, "The came at us in the same old fashion and we saw the off in the same old fashion".

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Old 11-09-2012, 11:34 AM   #258
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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What I don't undestand is why after being outclassed in the groundgame area in 2008 the GOP did not take notes from the Obama campaign. They should have least tried to replicate what the Dems did right but I did not a see a learning curve at all this time. They canvassed in the same old fashion and were overwhelmed. It's like what Wellington said about the French at Waterloo, "The came at us in the same old fashion and we saw the off in the same old fashion".
They thought that Citizens United vs. the Federal Elections Commission covered that. Their strategy was by using unlimited amounts of cash to bombard the airwaves with their message and negative advertising they would persuade the electorate to vote for them. It didn't work. Unfortunately, the other side could do the same, and, with the aid of disruptive technologies such as social media and crowd funding, with a lot less effort. There should be a lot of pissed off donors out there right now who gave millions of dollars to buy an election that wound up losing out big time, and folks like Karl Rove, Frank Luntz, Reince Priebus, and many others who took the money have a lot of explaining to do (at least behind closed doors) as to why they wasted that money.

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Old 11-09-2012, 11:42 AM   #259
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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They thought that Citizens United vs. the Federal Elections Commission covered that. Their strategy was by using unlimited amounts of cash to bombard the airwaves with their message and negative advertising they would persuade the electorate to vote for them. It didn't work. Unfortunately, the other side could do the same, and, with the aid of disruptive technologies such as social media and crowd funding, with a lot less effort. There should be a lot of pissed off donors out there right now who gave millions of dollars to buy an election that wound up losing out big time, and folks like Karl Rove, Frank Luntz, Reince Priebus, and many others who took the money have a lot of explaining to do (at least behind closed doors) as to why they wasted that money.
I don't see why Frank Luntz should be blamed, he was given the hard task of trying to find the correct wording to make terrible policies sound good. lol

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #260
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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They thought that Citizens United vs. the Federal Elections Commission covered that. Their strategy was by using unlimited amounts of cash to bombard the airwaves with their message and negative advertising they would persuade the electorate to vote for them. It didn't work. Unfortunately, the other side could do the same, and, with the aid of disruptive technologies such as social media and crowd funding, with a lot less effort. There should be a lot of pissed off donors out there right now who gave millions of dollars to buy an election that wound up losing out big time, and folks like Karl Rove, Frank Luntz, Reince Priebus, and many others who took the money have a lot of explaining to do (at least behind closed doors) as to why they wasted that money.
Why should Frank Luntz be blamed....out of all of them he did the best job. He spoke many times of the wrong decisions the campaign was making, as well as the crappy vs. good campaign ads, etc....the one who shares the majority of the blame are the C-Pacs and Reince Priebus....he is out, they are already looking for his replacement....

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:22 PM   #261
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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Why should Frank Luntz be blamed....out of all of them he did the best job. He spoke many times of the wrong decisions the campaign was making, as well as the crappy vs. good campaign ads, etc....the one who shares the majority of the blame are the C-Pacs and Reince Priebus....he is out, they are already looking for his replacement....
Luntz took money from them (the super PAC's) too, and his strategies didn't altogether work for the 2012 campaign. Remember, he sat down with senate and house republican's the night of the President's (first) inauguration and help strategize their plan that would "show united and unyielding opposition to the president’s economic policies", as well as win the spear point of the House in 2010, jab at the President relentlessly in 2011, (supposedly) win the White House and the Senate in 2012 (this was revealed in Robert Draper's book "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives" ). Although they did take the House in 2010, the ultimate goal didn't happen, and he (Luntz) is just as accountable for that as the others are.

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:37 PM   #262
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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Luntz took money from them (the super PAC's) too, and his strategies didn't altogether work for the 2012 campaign. Remember, he sat down with senate and house republican's the night of the President's (first) inauguration and help strategize their plan that would "show united and unyielding opposition to the president’s economic policies", as well as win the spear point of the House in 2010, jab at the President relentlessly in 2011, (supposedly) win the White House and the Senate in 2012 (this was revealed in Robert Draper's book "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives" ). Although they did take the House in 2010, the ultimate goal didn't happen, and he (Luntz) is just as accountable for that as the others are.
Well, then what was done behind closed doors as far as Luntz was concerned is far different than his rhetoric outside. Since we don't know what went on behind closed doors, I will go with what I heard with my own ears, and saw with my own eyes. It was clear to me that they (GOP) did not follow his lead. They took the direction of Rove and it didn't work. This campaign had his scent all over it.

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #263
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

As a Texan, I don't know how Ted Cruz, a Tea Parry favorite is going to work alongside John Cornyn, part of the group who's represented the status quo in Texas for the last decade.

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:48 PM   #264
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As a Texan, I don't know how Ted Cruz, a Tea Parry favorite is going to work alongside John Cornyn, part of the group who's represented the status quo in Texas for the last decade.
They will be fine....right now John Cornyn is more underfire from the far right wing christians in Texas than anyone else at the moment. His comments on the Republican Party needing changes pissed them off...Cruz did not have the support from that wing of the Tea Party, he was fully backed by the Fiscally Conservative Tea Party groups....the Socially Conservative factions stayed quiet.

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:57 PM   #265
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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They will be fine....right now John Cornyn is more underfire from the far right wing christians in Texas than anyone else at the moment. His comments on the Republican Party needing changes pissed them off...Cruz did not have the support from that wing of the Tea Party, he was fully backed by the Fiscally Conservative Tea Party groups....the Socially Conservative factions stayed quiet.
Would that give them someone to challenge for his seat in the primary?

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Old 11-09-2012, 01:22 PM   #266
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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Would that give them someone to challenge for his seat in the primary?
John Cornyn? yeah, can they win? who knows....

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Old 11-09-2012, 06:26 PM   #267
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I don't see why Frank Luntz should be blamed, he was given the hard task of trying to find the correct wording to make terrible policies sound good. lol
... and it didn't work. If it were me and i spent millions of dollars on election campaiigns, I would expect to win and I would certainly be pissed if I didn't. I could have built a stadium or bought a sports team with the money given to some of these super PAC's.

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:17 PM   #268
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

I still can't believe the Romney Campaign was so shocked they lost. They thought victory was so likely they didn't even write a concession speech ahead of time and had to scramble at the last minute to put one together after they lost. Their internal polling data was apparently so off it's crazy. Was everyone just living in a bubble in that campaign or did Karl Rove just do such a good job of conning them?

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:34 PM   #269
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

I don't think the Obama Campaign's internal polling was much better.....they were just lucky that it wasn't showing them in the lead so they kept punching....

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:01 PM   #270
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I don't think the Obama Campaign's internal polling was much better.....they were just lucky that it wasn't showing them in the lead so they kept punching....
Adviser: Romney shellshocked by loss.

Apparently, Obama's Campaign's internal polling was more accurate than Romney's.

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #271
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Adviser: Romney shellshocked by loss.

Apparently, Obama's Campaign's internal polling was more accurate than Romney's.
I think Obama was shellshocked earlier on, and fought to the end....Romney thought he was fully in control, and coasted in to a loss....

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Old 11-09-2012, 09:36 PM   #272
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I think Obama was shellshocked earlier on, and fought to the end....Romney thought he was fully in control, and coasted in to a loss....
I still say a competent campaign team doesn't run those Jeep ADs and makes a play for a longshot like Pennsylvania UNLESS they realize they needed to throw everything at the fence to win.

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Old 11-09-2012, 09:55 PM   #273
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I still say a competent campaign team doesn't run those Jeep ADs and makes a play for a longshot like Pennsylvania UNLESS they realize they needed to throw everything at the fence to win.
Was that the actual campaign running those ads or another group? I can't remember....

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:37 PM   #274
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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I still can't believe the Romney Campaign was so shocked they lost. They thought victory was so likely they didn't even write a concession speech ahead of time and had to scramble at the last minute to put one together after they lost. Their internal polling data was apparently so off it's crazy. Was everyone just living in a bubble in that campaign or did Karl Rove just do such a good job of conning them?
I think that most people just didn't expect the level of micro-campaigning that the Obama campaign performed. Seriously, the polls had Romney leading independents by double digits, youth turnout was expected to be down, he supposedly caught up with women and had double digit leads among men. Add in the fact that Obama's policies just weren't very popular and he had a bad economy still to deal with. With that kind of formula, any campaign should expect to win, because that is what typically happens. But none of what the polls suggested to happen, didn't happen. Romney only won independents by 4%, he lost women by huge margins as opposed to the single digits, there was a stealth turnout effort with African-Americans, youth turnout didn't drop, etc.

The Republicans were right that the polls were wonky, but the way that they were off weren't in their favor.

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Old 11-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #275
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Default Re: November 6th, 2012: Campaigning, Early Voting, Election Day, And The Results! II

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I still say a competent campaign team doesn't run those Jeep ADs and makes a play for a longshot like Pennsylvania UNLESS they realize they needed to throw everything at the fence to win.
Someone I know in OH felt that something was off in the Romney camp when all the Romney robocalls suddenly stopped a week or two before Election Day, and it seemed the Romney camp suddenly thought it was more worth it to swing PA instead, where Obama had the bigger lead in polls. That's just strange.

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