Biggest Disappointment - Part 1

[The Joker]

Quality over quantity. Two Face was used effectively in the five or so scenes he had in the final quarter of the movie. He was like the climax to Harvey Dent's arc. That final showdown scene with him holding Gordon's family hostage was more intense and thrilling than anything with Ra's or Scarecrow in Begins, IMO.

[The Morningstar]

Yea, I thought Dent's arc was the best thing about TDK. He was infinitely more interesting than Bruce Wayne.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

Yea, I thought Dent's arc was the best thing about TDK. He was infinitely more interesting than Bruce Wayne.

Yeah, Dent was definitely the best part of TDK, but I wasn't too thrilled with how they just killed him off. I really wanted to see him in TDKR.

As for Wayne, I really didn't enjoy him at all in TDK. I felt like Bale gave a pretty wooden performance, and the only thing that felt like he put any emotion in, is when Rachel died, and even then, it didn't really do anything for me. Added to the fact that I hated his bat-voice(you can blame Bale, Nolan, or whoever altered his voice, I don't care), really made me disappointed in almost all of Bale's scenes. I just didn't really feel the same vibe I did with BB. I'm supposed to enjoy Batman/Bruce Wayne scenes in a Batman movie, and ultimately, it was some of the worst parts about it, IMO.

[The Morningstar]

Agreed. When the titular character is the least interesting aspect of a movie, that's kinda a big no no for me.

There was a few moments where i thought Bale was great. Like when Maroni explained to him why they don't fear Batman anymore. Some good acting there from Bale with just his facial expression. But then, it also shows how naive and stupid he is. Of course the mob is going to fear Joker more than him. I mean, it wasn't exactly a revelation was it?

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Quality over quantity. Two Face was used effectively in the five or so scenes he had in the final quarter of the movie. He was like the climax to Harvey Dent's arc. That final showdown scene with him holding Gordon's family hostage was more intense and thrilling than anything with Ra's or Scarecrow in Begins, IMO.

I totally agree. The scene with the Gordons was absolutely intense. Better than lots of explosions.

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

There was a few moments where i thought Bale was great. Like when Maroni explained to him why they don't fear Batman anymore. Some good acting there from Bale with just his facial expression.

I'd also add the scene where Bruce Wayne is talking to Gordon after he accidentally "tried to catch the light." That and when he looks at Reese.

Originally Posted by The Morningstar

But then, it also shows how naive and stupid he is. Of course the mob is going to fear Joker more than him. I mean, it wasn't exactly a revelation was it?

Well it was for him. The whole point of Joker under Batman's pespective is that he's a kind of villiain he simply couldn't understand.

[The Morningstar]

Yea but how is it hard to understand that a guy who actually murders people, in cruel and sadistic ways, is more frightening than a guy who just beats people up?

[Thebumwhowalks]

Bale was just as good in TDK as he was in BB, he was phenomenal in the interrogation scene, and was the best Batman onscreen yet, in *all* of his scenes in costume.

He was also very good as Bruce Wayne, he has a good sly way about him when he is being sarcastic as part of his act, with the little digs at Harvey in the restaurant, and when he makes his grand entrance at the Wayne Penthouse fundraiser. He plays the smartass playboy scenes he was given very well indeed.

I've always particularly enjoyed watching him in the retaurant scene as he gradually switches off the sarcastic act, and looks at Harvey with a grateful, hopeful, sincerity in his eyes, just as Harvey starts giving his 'speech' supporting Batman.
It's like you can see the emotion welling up in him to the point where it would give someone else a noticible choke, or tear to the eye, but of course, he controls this, in order to protect his identity, and all that emotion comes flooding out in the controlled, firm and serious manner in which he promises Dent to get him the financial support he needs for the rest of his life.
Because when Dent is saying 'the Batman doesn't want to do this for the rest of his life', that is the moment that really gets to Bruce, he sees someone sympathising with how difficult the life is, rather than just going on about how badass it is or whatever.
*That* was a *great* Bruce Wayne performance, to say otherwise is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I really don't know what you guys feel was 'off' or missing from those scenes, it's not like he is mumbling into his clothes, or looks lost in any of the scenes, he's totally got control of the scenes and plays them consumantly. I am completely baffled as to how you could like his BW/BM in BB, and dislike it so much in TDK, c'mon, even the difference in Bat-voice can't put you off that much, I mean, that is the only difference in performance I can see.
Unless, it's just the TDK script you have a problem with in regards to BW/BM, as opposed to what Nolan and Goyer had him do in BB.

[Cain]

Yeah I liked Bale in TDK a lot. So many nuances in the movie but he's more haunted and conflicted in this one. He didn't have as much expository dialogue to deal with this time. So he had more freedom to move the character into a darker place.

That title of the movie has more than one point narratively speaking. It's not just because of the whole White Knight (Dent)/Dark Knight (Batman) thing. He's given this war his all and inadvertently in doing so made things worse for himself. He seems burdened. Even physically with him being a little more gaunt than in BB it's a great display that it's been a rough road for him since he became Batman.

It's taking it's toll on him and becoming a curse yet he also realizes that he's the only one that could make the decisions that only the Batman could make. The one thing I can't wait to see in the new one is how this is all resolved. He went from optimistic and determined to haunted and in pain because of all the bad stuff he's responsible for (people risking their lives imitating him, crazier & more dangerous kooks like The Joker rising up etc.)

Stakes keep getting higher. I really do wonder how he will end up. I actually wouldn't mind a Batman that quits for the greater good in this version cause in the end it's a powerful if obvious narrative conclusion. If he's done more harm than good to Gotham better to keep with the good and walk away. Use his wealth as Bruce Wayne to make the differences to the city in other ways like Bruce Wayne does in the comics (IE: Helping orphanages, Dr. Thompkins' clinic, helping with the agriculture like recently investing in rebuilding crime alley etc.) without continuing the Batman thing. We'll see.

[cloverfan98]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Yeah, Dent was definitely the best part of TDK, but I wasn't too thrilled with how they just killed him off. I really wanted to see him in TDKR.

As for Wayne, I really didn't enjoy him at all in TDK. I felt like Bale gave a pretty wooden performance, and the only thing that felt like he put any emotion in, is when Rachel died, and even then, it didn't really do anything for me. Added to the fact that I hated his bat-voice(you can blame Bale, Nolan, or whoever altered his voice, I don't care), really made me disappointed in almost all of Bale's scenes. I just didn't really feel the same vibe I did with BB. I'm supposed to enjoy Batman/Bruce Wayne scenes in a Batman movie, and ultimately, it was some of the worst parts about it, IMO.

Wow I agree with you on pretty much everything you said there. For me Bale is really good in TDK but otherthan his scenes with Dent and the aftermath of Rachel's death he really doesn't get to do much.

[Thebumwhowalks]

So, you would agree that Bale's performance was 'wooden'? Then, you would be wrong, I think that term gets thrown around far too much on this forum, for any number of performances, and it's usually not applicable.
I saw another poster point this out to someone, and realised just how willy nilly this term is used, without any consideration for it's actual meaning.

[Thebumwhowalks]

Originally Posted by Cain

Yeah I liked Bale in TDK a lot. So many nuances in the movie but he's more haunted and conflicted in this one. He didn't have as much expository dialogue to deal with this time. So he had more freedom to move the character into a darker place.

That title of the movie has more than one point narratively speaking. It's not just because of the whole White Knight (Dent)/Dark Knight (Batman) thing. He's given this war his all and inadvertently in doing so made things worse for himself. He seems burdened. Even physically with him being a little more gaunt than in BB it's a great display that it's been a rough road for him since he became Batman.

It's taking it's toll on him and becoming a curse yet he also realizes that he's the only one that could make the decisions that only the Batman could make. The one thing I can't wait to see in the new one is how this is all resolved. He went from optimistic and determined to haunted and in pain because of all the bad stuff he's responsible for (people risking their lives imitating him, crazier & more dangerous kooks like The Joker rising up etc.)

Stakes keep getting higher. I really do wonder how he will end up. I actually wouldn't mind a Batman that quits for the greater good in this version cause in the end it's a powerful if obvious narrative conclusion. If he's done more harm than good to Gotham better to keep with the good and walk away. Use his wealth as Bruce Wayne to make the differences to the city in other ways like Bruce Wayne does in the comics (IE: Helping orphanages, Dr. Thompkins' clinic, helping with the agriculture like recently investing in rebuilding crime alley etc.) without continuing the Batman thing. We'll see.

He's done more harm than good for Gotham?! There wouldn't be a Gotham if he hadn't taken it upon himself to begin his work as a superhero, Ras would've razed it to the gorund.

No, if he retires from the life, it will be because he is no longer needed, it will be because his work is done, he'll have left Gotham in the place where it is now free from being overrun by corrupt officials.
It looks like that is the place where Gotham is at at the beginning of TDKR, but then Bane shows up to wreck the peace.
So, he takes care of Bane, peace will reign in the valley once more, and Gotham can rest easy, then Wayne can retire, because his work is done, he's made the place self regulatory, where the honest cops and officials can take care of business, as they were supposed to all along.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Thebumwhowalks

Bale was just as good in TDK as he was in BB, he was phenomenal in the interrogation scene, and was the best Batman onscreen yet, in *all* of his scenes in costume.

He was also very good as Bruce Wayne, he has a good sly way about him when he is being sarcastic as part of his act, with the little digs at Harvey in the restaurant, and when he makes his grand entrance at the Wayne Penthouse fundraiser. He plays the smartass playboy scenes he was given very well indeed.

I've always particularly enjoyed watching him in the retaurant scene as he gradually switches off the sarcastic act, and looks at Harvey with a grateful, hopeful, sincerity in his eyes, just as Harvey starts giving his 'speech' supporting Batman.
It's like you can see the emotion welling up in him to the point where it would give someone else a noticible choke, or tear to the eye, but of course, he controls this, in order to protect his identity, and all that emotion comes flooding out in the controlled, firm and serious manner in which he promises Dent to get him the financial support he needs for the rest of his life.
Because when Dent is saying 'the Batman doesn't want to do this for the rest of his life', that is the moment that really gets to Bruce, he sees someone sympathising with how difficult the life is, rather than just going on about how badass it is or whatever.
*That* was a *great* Bruce Wayne performance, to say otherwise is absolutely mind boggling to me.

I really don't know what you guys feel was 'off' or missing from those scenes, it's not like he is mumbling into his clothes, or looks lost in any of the scenes, he's totally got control of the scenes and plays them consumantly. I am completely baffled as to how you could like his BW/BM in BB, and dislike it so much in TDK, c'mon, even the difference in Bat-voice can't put you off that much, I mean, that is the only difference in performance I can see.
Unless, it's just the TDK script you have a problem with in regards to BW/BM, as opposed to what Nolan and Goyer had him do in BB.

Originally Posted by Cain

Yeah I liked Bale in TDK a lot. So many nuances in the movie but he's more haunted and conflicted in this one. He didn't have as much expository dialogue to deal with this time. So he had more freedom to move the character into a darker place.

That title of the movie has more than one point narratively speaking. It's not just because of the whole White Knight (Dent)/Dark Knight (Batman) thing. He's given this war his all and inadvertently in doing so made things worse for himself. He seems burdened. Even physically with him being a little more gaunt than in BB it's a great display that it's been a rough road for him since he became Batman.

It's taking it's toll on him and becoming a curse yet he also realizes that he's the only one that could make the decisions that only the Batman could make. The one thing I can't wait to see in the new one is how this is all resolved. He went from optimistic and determined to haunted and in pain because of all the bad stuff he's responsible for (people risking their lives imitating him, crazier & more dangerous kooks like The Joker rising up etc.)

Stakes keep getting higher. I really do wonder how he will end up. I actually wouldn't mind a Batman that quits for the greater good in this version cause in the end it's a powerful if obvious narrative conclusion. If he's done more harm than good to Gotham better to keep with the good and walk away. Use his wealth as Bruce Wayne to make the differences to the city in other ways like Bruce Wayne does in the comics (IE: Helping orphanages, Dr. Thompkins' clinic, helping with the agriculture like recently investing in rebuilding crime alley etc.) without continuing the Batman thing. We'll see.

Great posts.

I actually enjoyed Batman's story more in TDK because of all the consequences he inadvertently caused on Gotham. It's like he opened this big can of worms and now he had to deal with it. The Joker, the copycats, the people of Gotham turning on him, Rachel dying etc. For me that was more interesting than the origin story, which was still great btw.

I think Bale was just as good in TDK.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Thebumwhowalks

He's done more harm than good for Gotham?! There wouldn't be a Gotham if he hadn't taken it upon himself to begin his work as a superhero, Ras would've razed it to the gorund.

Yes and clearly even he feels that way. Batman was a necessity at a time and now it's become a bit of a nuisance. He is now burdened by his decision most especially telling after Rachel dies. This is the arc that flows through BB and TDK when it comes to Bruce Wayne.

1 good (taking out Ra's) led to a series of bads (Arkham inmates being on the loose, the gangs taking more extreme measures in their execution to the point of hiring murderous unpredictable mad men, copycats who are just untrained innocent people putting themselves in harm's way).

That's more than likely why he stepped aside for 8 years in the first place. The "escalation" Gordon talked about is real and if Batman falls back things are bound to die down in terms of the extremities of crime and crime fighting. It's not that his "work is done" I bet $ there are still corrupt officials in Gotham around by TDKR.

It's that he realized that there are less harmful yet more effective means of justice than the one he was dishing out (the Harvey Dent's and Jim Gordon's out there) when it comes to the city's bottom line. He loves Gotham too much to understand that and he falls back. You no longer have anybody trying to call him out and any crime left is enough for the authorities to deal with. Till Bane comes around.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Great posts.

I actually enjoyed Batman's story more in TDK because of all the consequences he inadvertently caused on Gotham. It's like he opened this big can of worms and now he had to deal with it. The Joker, the copycats, the people of Gotham turning on him, Rachel dying etc. For me that was more interesting than the origin story, which was still great btw.

I think Bale was just as good in TDK.

Yeah that's what took it to another level for me too.

[El Payaso]

Originally Posted by The Joker

Great posts.

I actually enjoyed Batman's story more in TDK because of all the consequences he inadvertently caused on Gotham. It's like he opened this big can of worms and now he had to deal with it. The Joker, the copycats, the people of Gotham turning on him, Rachel dying etc. For me that was more interesting than the origin story, which was still great btw.

I think Bale was just as good in TDK.

I think the origin is naturally the most interesting part of the character, but Nolan made the next part much better than it could have been. And, as a movie, much more interesting than BB.

[Ironhorse75]

None of the ferry boats blew up.

I was really hoping for a scenario where Joker made it where whoever detonated blew themselves up.

[darklord1967]

My "Biggest Disappointment" Regarding Chris Nolan's The Dark Knight ?

Um... I guess it was the fact that the horrid film was even made at all.

But if i must pick actual moments from the film, THREE instances come to mind.

Two of the moments have to do with The Batman's portrayal as an inept, un-elegant, clumsy oaf:

1) Being smacked into a garage piller by the Scarecrow's men when he clung to the side of their getaway van. This made him look like one of the dumb NAZI STOOGES from the truck chase in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

2) Bearing down upon The Joker in his Bat-pod, only to un-ceremoniously skid, crash, and break his ass... (for no damned good reason at all)

3) And then there is the laughably bad Interrogation Scene with its terrible staging, and Christian Bale's hammy, over the top shouting (while wearing a cowl that was literally pinching his cheeks together and making him look like an idiot).

[Fudgie]

I have no disappointments. The movie is near perfection for me.

[ALP]

I think I am most disappointed at the fat guy who didn't even realize that a cell phone bomb was surgically implanted into his stomach.

[The Joker]

That guy seemed to be a few sandwiches short of a picnic. He believed Joker was going to replace voices in his head with bright Christmas lights.

Says it all.

[ALP]

...hmm...LOL

[Mindreaper21]

The biggest disappointment to me is how Harvey was killed off. No one will no that "Two-Face" existed. Though, Eckhart gave one hell of a performance. The laughable dissapointment was Batman in his skinnies trying to look intimidating. Who the hell would be scared of that? Alfred should have made him some damn sandwiches instead of all of that soup.

[Fudgie]

Originally Posted by Mindreaper21

The biggest disappointment to me is how Harvey was killed off. No one will no that "Two-Face" existed. Though, Eckhart gave one hell of a performance. The laughable dissapointment was Batman in his skinnies trying to look intimidating. Who the hell would be scared of that? Alfred should have made him some damn sandwiches instead of all of that soup.

Nobody in Gotham knows Ra's existed except Batman. Even Gordon didn't know about him. Then Batman left him to die on the train.

What skinnies are you on about? New suit looked better than that fat puffy Begins one. It's back in the new flick as well. Hell to the yeah.

[ALP]

Wonder if Bale's Batman wears a onesie to bed.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by Fudgie

Nobody in Gotham knows Ra's existed except Batman. Even Gordon didn't know about him. Then Batman left him to die on the train.

Never even thought of that. Although regarding Dent as Two Face:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

From what we've seen and heard Bane spills the beans on his wicked deeds as Two Face.

What skinnies are you on about? New suit looked better than that fat puffy Begins one. It's back in the new flick as well. Hell to the yeah.

The only Batman suit to be used as the main suit for two movies