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Old 10-15-2013, 07:46 AM   #176
Rodrigo90
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Default Re: The Joker's background?

I agree with that.

I think I look too deep into it. The writers weren't psychological experts and nor am I lol

I do believe Joker attempted suicide. But you're right in saying it wasn't through the mutilation.
It was just a physical manifestation of what he feels he is deep down, an evil joke. It's all done to hold a mirror up to life and it's true and absurd self.

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Old 10-15-2013, 09:31 AM   #177
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Yeah, I don't see it as a suicide attempt. Now im leaning towards it being, that the Joker put on the suit and the makeup once Batman appeared. The scars could have been done once he heard of Batman, or it was done right before. But I don't see it as a suicidal attempt, because if that was the case, Batmans existence is what gave him a reason to carry on. I only don't see that because he would probably keep trying to kill himself while in Arkham for 8 years.

Of course TDKR novelization isn't 100 percent canon so maybe he did off himself in the institute which could work within the whole "joker is not mentioned 8 years later (we all know the real reason). But I still believe he escapes Arkham during the breakout, feeling reinvigorated that the Batman is back to take back the city.

This is a sick person, check the details on the diary. He's been sick for a long time. He really is like a minion of the devil challenging God's word, nice one Rodrigo.

A persons upbringing has to do with this kind of thing. So obviously the father is to blame for some of it. But I don't think it goes too deep within the father. This is somebody who has been stomped on by society over and over again.

So no suicide, not in my opinion, he did it to himself sure and used it to show the world something ugly. The scars represent what he feels on the inside, he's trying to show the people who he really is. Just like Bruce's batman is a representation of the shadowy, dark character he is but it's also going to the extreme to scare criminals. Joker's whole get-up and scars is to show people that everything is a sick joke. Not just a joke, otherwise he'd just dress up like a clown. But a sick pathetic, disgusting joke. Fear plays a part in all of this.

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Old 10-15-2013, 10:22 AM   #178
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I'm positive Joker has tried to kill himself though.
To think about the things he has, to see no point in existing, I imagine he would try to take his life, before finally dealing with it.
He has a disregard for life, because he has no regard for his own. Because he sees no point to it.

Existence to him is one big joke. People living by society's rules is one big joke. People living a normal life is frustrating for him.

Things he lost all sense in and it drove him mad.
He stepped into a void that he can't turn back from. Then he's trying to drag others into that void.

He wants to perform social experiments on people to break their spirits, like he has had his broken.

His belief is. If there was no authority or rules keeping restraints on us, molding us since birth to behave decent and good, then we'd be in a stage where we would cause chaos as monsters.
We wouldn't be monsters, would we? There would be no such thing as evil, because we would be exactly that without knowing what it even means.
Joker thinks, deep down, that people are inherently evil and it's because of society's rules and laws that keep us on the path of good.
He wants people to embrace the evil inside themselves, as that is who they truly are.
Madness is what opened his eyes to the truth about people.
Chaos is his master, because he knows, like I said, that it's the tool that will break the bonds that rules and law have molded us into being since birth, which is decent and good.
Within madness, comes chaos. It destroys existing establishment.

2 factors made him become, Joker.
A philosophical belief that existence is nothing but one big joke. Therefore, he doesn't feel the need to abide by laws and rules.
And the belief that human beings are twisted and evil deep down. Again, kept good, because of laws and rules.
Kept from seeing themselves for what they really are and the world that they live in. Their very existence, right down to the clothes they buy with money they earn slaving away in jobs, nothing but a joke, that they haven't realized in the way a certain someone has.

Combine those 2 things, and you've got the Joker. No wonder he went mad!

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Old 10-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #179
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Default Re: The Joker's background?

I don't think he ever was stomped by society, I think he's a very alpha male (you can watch his possible young version in the film Hesher I mentioned before). He could've been a bohemian artist, a drug-addict, a homeless, all of this during his previous life. The rules of society, the law and the order don't bother him cause they are rational. I mean, the police are normal people who makes a work for money, and in general people obey rules because is better to do it.

But, when Batman appears, his mind breaks. Batman isn't like the ordinary police, no, no: Batman is crazy. He doesn't do what he does for money or for any rational reason. He is a lunatic obsessed with order, a man dressed like a bat who appears from nowhere and attacks the criminals (people who don't follow the laws). I think the Joker perceives Batman like a direct menace to his free will, and his actions during the film are just a reaction to this menace. He defends himself of the threat of Batman, and he does it attacking and mocking the social values which have allowed (and allows) his existence.


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Old 10-15-2013, 12:33 PM   #180
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True but I don't think he's suicidal in a way where he's attempted it on himself before. Sure he doesn't care if he dies but mainly if it happens while proving somebody like the Batman wrong. I don't know enough about this subject, but I feel that suicidal people just don't enjoy anything. Theyre severely depressed individuals and cant find the energy to enjoy anything really. That's not the Joker. He laughs his ass off in enjoyment of MANY things. Not only proving people wrong but like I said, check the diary Heath wrote. There's a list of things he loves, laughs at, finds absolutely amusing. There's sick stuff in there but there's also plenty of normal things and goofy ****. I think he has a twisted belief system and a twisted sense of humor, but he does have a sense of humor.

I don't see him as suicidal, unless he dies while serving a purpose. Maybe im wrong. But it's more in line with a terrorist who would do a suicide bombing if it made a loud noise so to speak. A major point to the people witnessing it. In this case, he has a mission and it seems like he wants to live to see through that mission. Even if that mission is sprinkled with "happy accidents", improvising and changing ideas is a big part of Joker. He's adaptable. He's like a darkened free spirit. But there still is a mission at hand once the Batman enters the picture. He keeps Joker going. He wants to keep living because of him, true, but if he was truly suicidal, he would have offed himself like no problem once in Arkham.

The guy is just maniacal. An evil clown. Chaos keeps him going just as much as the Batman. He LIVES for chaos and to **** with the rules. He's the embodiment of punk rock.

Here's the best example I can give. He was at times based on Alex DeLarge from A Clockwork Orange. There's your answer. A man who is not depressed even though he's a dark soul. He enjoys life, just in different ways than most. He's almost giddy for the things he loves. Those things are just ****ed up lol. That's the Joker. Only he has scars and is even more theatrical.

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Old 10-15-2013, 12:56 PM   #181
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Default Re: The Joker's background?

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being suicidal - I mean, he taunts Batman into running him over, he puts a gun in Dent's hand and forces it to his own forehead and he howls with glee when Batman throws him off Prewitt Building (and almost looks confused and disappointed when Batman catches him just in time). I think the Joker definitely likes the idea of his own death, but I would agree that for him it should come with a "higher" purpose - like making Batman or Dent kill him so they would be corrupted by the very act. I don't think he minds dying if that means that someone else would come in his place - look how happy he is when informing Batman about the "heroic things" Two-Face's up to. I believe that the kamikaze comparison isn't far from the truth behind his mindset.

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Old 10-15-2013, 12:56 PM   #182
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Default Re: The Joker's background?

I think anyone who came to conclusions in the way Joker did, would go mad. It's enough to make anyone off themselves. No point in life, existence can't be comprehended? It's bad.

I'm basing it purely on studies and research I've personally done.
Joker cracking up upon a philosophical revelation, that disturbed him immensely, it's realistic to assume he may have attempted suicide, only to survive. Then his mind came out more twisted as he repaired himself.

I'm kind of basing this theory on Joker attempting to kill himself in Gotham By Gaslight. He survived, but his face and mind were damaged by the poison he took.
Joker by all means, has stared death in the face and laughed at it. He's seen the void in existence. None of us can comprehend the psychological damage he's experienced.

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