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Old 03-20-2017, 02:44 AM   #1
Stan Lee
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Default Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

I rewatched the scene with Caliban and it's implied that this isn't the first time she's brought him Mutants.

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Old 03-20-2017, 10:58 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

Where does this speculative suggestion get us though?

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Old 03-20-2017, 12:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

well he didn't do a very good job of helping him if he still ended up with Stryker

although, this would explain how Logan knew him, and why he would turn to him to help again in the future


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Old 03-20-2017, 12:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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well he didn't do a very good job of helping him if he still ended up with Styker
She technically was saving him from drowning, not really from stryker.

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Old 03-20-2017, 04:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

Stryker simply had to be Stryker at the end of DOFP if the intent was always for Wolverine to end up in Weapon X.

You wanted Mystique saving other mutants have her save someone else, not Wolverine.

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Old 03-20-2017, 04:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

Its weird how people have always assumed stryker got wolverine against his will by either having someone take him to stryker or by capturing him but in X2 it was stated wolverine volunteered and thats why origins had to find a reason to have Logan volunteer.

In the long run there was a 10 year gap inbetween DOFP and Apocalypse so it doesn't really matter.

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Old 03-20-2017, 04:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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In the long run there was a 10 year gap inbetween DOFP and Apocalypse so it doesn't really matter.
It does matter when they made a point of saving him in the previous movie.

Excusing bad writing and bad continuity.

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Old 03-20-2017, 04:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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It does matter when they made a point of saving him in the previous movie.

Excusing bad writing and bad continuity.
Saved him from drowning with a fake out.

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Old 03-20-2017, 06:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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It does matter when they made a point of saving him in the previous movie.

Excusing bad writing and bad continuity.
You could argue bad writing but not bad continuity. Considering we now know that Logan met Stryker through the military and volunteered like in the old timeline through the latest film(he had the "Wolverine" military identification tag).


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Old 03-21-2017, 12:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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In the long run there was a 10 year gap inbetween DOFP and Apocalypse so it doesn't really matter.
It's weird that you invoke the 10 year gap for this but when this same reasoning is used for other potential events, you cry foul.

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Old 03-22-2017, 07:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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It's weird that you invoke the 10 year gap for this but when this same reasoning is used for other potential events, you cry foul.
Well there is desire and there is common sense.

You can use the 10 year excuse for anything but sometimes quicksilver will sit in his mums basement for 10 years and sometimes a character will move on to other things, it just depends on the probability.

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Old 03-22-2017, 09:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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She technically was saving him from drowning, not really from Stryker.
I meant Caliban not her

if after she saved him from drowning she then brought him to Caliban to provide him a new identity an safe passage to wherever

I did get the feeling in Apocalypse that Mystique and Stryker had more history then just what we saw in DOFP, so I would assume she's rescued other mutants from him between the events of the two movies

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Its weird how people have always assumed stryker got wolverine against his will by either having someone take him to stryker or by capturing him but in X2 it was stated wolverine volunteered and thats why origins had to find a reason to have Logan volunteer.

In the long run there was a 10 year gap inbetween DOFP and Apocalypse so it doesn't really matter.
I guess it is possible that the younger Logan remembered the flashback that future Logan had when he first saw Stryker agian(in the past), and was seeking answers for the messing gap of time between when his future self took him over and waking up in the water... and the only thing he remember was Stryker was in the room, and that someone that looked like him was the one who got him out of the water... so he was the one who found Stryker

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Old 03-22-2017, 01:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Well there is desire and there is common sense.

You can use the 10 year excuse for anything but sometimes quicksilver will sit in his mums basement for 10 years and sometimes a character will move on to other things, it just depends on the probability.
So where does your proposed "Mystique staying for 10 years in the mansion to still lead the X-men" fall?

You know, known lone-wolf and independent woman Mystique.

Is this desire on your part or is this (lack of) common sense?

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Old 03-30-2017, 05:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

Idk why people are having a hard time with the Mystique/Wolverine thing. She did say that she's brought people to Caliban before. She even said in that scene that she just rescues them/brings them to Caliban and then they're free to do what they want. That's what she originally planned for Nightcrawler before asking him to take her to Charles.

So at the end of DOFP, she rescued Logan and set him free. Just like she did with Alex, Toad, and the others. Remember that we last see Toad working in a kitchen. I'll also remind everyone that in the scene where Mystique attempts to assassinate Trask and is captured on video, just before Stryker runs out the room, he looks and pauses directly at a confused Logan's bone claws.

So why is it hard to believe that Mystique rescued Logan and Logan went on about his business just like the others? His past self had no idea who Stryker was. His future consciousness, which went back to the changed future did. Stryker already had an interest in past Logan and either captured him or convinced him to join Weapon X. Past Logan had no idea what kind of person Stryker was and therefore didn't take precautions to stay away from him.

IDK why people are saying it doesn't make sense or that Mystique gave Logan to Trask. She doesn't keep up with them after she rescues them. She even told Nightcrawler she didn't care what he did after she originally saved him.


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Old 03-30-2017, 10:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Idk why people are having a hard time with the Mystique/Wolverine thing. She did say that she's brought people to Caliban before. She even said in that scene that she just rescues them/brings them to Caliban and then they're free to do what they want. That's what she originally planned for Nightcrawler before asking him to take her to Charles.

So at the end of DOFP, she rescued Logan and set him free. Just like she did with Alex, Toad, and the others. Remember that we last see Toad working in a kitchen. I'll also remind everyone that in the scene where Mystique attempts to assassinate Trask and is captured on video, just before Trask runs out the room, he looks and pauses directly at a confused Logan's bone claws.

Do why is it hard to believe that Mystique rescued Logan and Logan went on about his business? His past self had no idea who Trask was. His future consciousness, which went back to the changed future did. Trask already had an interest in past Logan and either captured him or convinced him to join Weapon X. Past Logan had no idea what kind of person Trask was and therefore didn't take precautions to stay away from him.

IDK why people are saying it doesn't make sense or that Mystique gave Logan to Trask.
You mean Stryker right?

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Old 03-30-2017, 11:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Idk why people are having a hard time with the Mystique/Wolverine thing. She did say that she's brought people to Caliban before. She even said in that scene that she just rescues them/brings them to Caliban and then they're free to do what they want. That's what she originally planned for Nightcrawler before asking him to take her to Charles.

So at the end of DOFP, she rescued Logan and set him free. Just like she did with Alex, Toad, and the others. Remember that we last see Toad working in a kitchen. I'll also remind everyone that in the scene where Mystique attempts to assassinate Trask and is captured on video, just before Trask runs out the room, he looks and pauses directly at a confused Logan's bone claws.

Do why is it hard to believe that Mystique rescued Logan and Logan went on about his business? His past self had no idea who Trask was. His future consciousness, which went back to the changed future did. Trask already had an interest in past Logan and either captured him or convinced him to join Weapon X. Past Logan had no idea what kind of person Trask was and therefore didn't take precautions to stay away from him.

IDK why people are saying it doesn't make sense or that Mystique gave Logan to Trask.
Because it makes the whole end sequence of DOFP utterly pointless.

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Old 03-31-2017, 12:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

It always comes down to, "Wolverine could wind up with Stryker in Weapon X anyway" to which I say "why have Mystique save him then?" and the retort always is "it was to show how she was still saving mutants" to which I say it could've been any mutant other than the one who's saving would end up being pointless. That sequence should have been the actual Stryker taking Wolverine -- no yellow "gotcha!" eyes. They were trying to do the Senator Kelly in X1 stinger.

Never mind it is accompanied by a monologue of Xavier talking about "the past having endless possibilities and infinite outcomes, enough ripple, and you change the tide... for the future is never truly set" implying things were being changed.

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Old 03-31-2017, 02:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Is this desire on your part or is this (lack of) common sense?
Right back at ya.

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Old 03-31-2017, 09:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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You mean Stryker right?

Yes, I meant Stryker. We see him look directly at his bone claws before he ran. That's enough to show that he took a special interest in him and probably pursued him afterwards. The wolverine of the 70s didn't know who Stryker was.

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Old 03-31-2017, 09:44 AM   #20
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Because it makes the whole end sequence of DOFP utterly pointless.

They said themselves that some things are different while some are the same. You can still arrive at the samepoint yet take different paths to get to that same point. He could have ended up with Stryker a completely different way the second time than he did the first. But he was always destined to end up with him.

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Old 03-31-2017, 01:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Right back at ya.
Common sense says if an actor (or actress) tells you in so many different ways that she doesn't want to be there, you don't write your scripts with said actress in mind.

And with the domestic box office for Apocalypse barely registering, does throwing more money into the problem (ie. giving JLaw more money to renew her contract just so she can put her foot down that she doesn't want to wear that make up) make sense?

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They said themselves that some things are different while some are the same. You can still arrive at the samepoint yet take different paths to get to that same point. He could have ended up with Stryker a completely different way the second time than he did the first. But he was always destined to end up with him.
Still pointless.


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Old 03-31-2017, 01:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

Caliban "used to work for the good guys" like Pierce says in Logan. This makes sense to me.

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Old 03-31-2017, 01:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Common sense says if an actor (or actress) tells you in so many different ways that she doesn't want to be there, you don't write your scripts with said actress in mind.
Common sense says if they thought this was in any way problematic they wouldn't have written the ending of apocalypse how they did

Common sense says if jlaw doesn't come back the can recast if they so choose too

Common sense says if it turns out the script is already written with mystique involved and they don't even know if Jen will be back... then they clearly don't see it as a huge issue

Common sense says alot, not just what you want it to say.

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And with the domestic box office for Apocalypse barely registering, does throwing more money into the problem (ie. giving JLaw more money to renew her contract just so she can put her foot down that she doesn't want to wear that make up) make sense?
Does alot of things about this franchise make sense? you have complained about it enough times so you tell me?

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Old 03-31-2017, 03:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Common sense says if they thought this was in any way problematic they wouldn't have written the ending of apocalypse how they did
You're kidding right? With the many continuity problems in this franchise, it's easy to conclude that many of the things that happen in one movie were never planned for the next movie.

See: All the deaths in TLS only to have an entire movie (DOFP) work to erase those.
Also: Angel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Emma Frost, Moira.

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Does alot of things about this franchise make sense? you have complained about it enough times so you tell me?
Your Logic: I know a lot of things don't make sense, but don't complain!

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Old 03-31-2017, 03:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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You're kidding right? With the many continuity problems in this franchise, it's easy to conclude that many of the things that happen in one movie were never planned for the next movie.
Funny how this is a subject you complain about most of the time.

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Your Logic: I know a lot of things don't make sense, but don't complain!
lol you was the one who was asking if something made sense or not.

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