The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > TV Series > Game of Thrones

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-08-2017, 05:33 PM   #101
Ruth Fisher
Goddess Famke Janssen
 
Ruth Fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 875
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Jamie needs to die too. Him and his fake hand need to drown ASAP

__________________
Be kind to animals
Ruth Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 06:10 PM   #102
Iceman
Infinity War!
 
Iceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Londinium, North of Gaul, circa XLIII AD
Posts: 115,351
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Jaime has a key viewpoint for me in the series. I'd like to see him make it to at least near the end.

__________________
Xbox GT: BAHAMUT ZERO X 148,092 G
X-MEN - AVENGERS - JUSTICE LEAGUE
Iceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 06:57 PM   #103
Warhorse
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevTravels View Post
I'm really amazed that anyone in the Lannister or Tyrell army would not question whether the Mother of Dragons would use her dragons against them. I mean come on, it's her nuclear arsenal. They're going to be used. Especially as they see her as a mad villain with an army of foreign savages. How could anyone willingly join a war against her?
Well, some of these people also believe in higher beings and Gods, and maybe their faith in these Gods is stronger than the fear of dragons.

Warhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 07:07 PM   #104
Warhorse
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom View Post
I don't think the conversation between Jon, Davos, and Messandei was an accident. If Dany keeps going down this path, I could see several of her most trusted advisers jumping ship. Messandei included.

Given the show's penchant for killing off fan-favorites, the building tension between Dany and Tyrion is a cause for concern. Especially if Jaime ends up getting taken as prisoner and Tyrion needs to make a decision.
Well, maybe it's just me, but the only reason why Dani was in any way a favorite, was because of her dragons. But, we got Jon now, knowing he is the son of a Targaryen, kill off Dani as the big shock of the season, and give her control of the Dragons to Jon.

Warhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 07:14 PM   #105
Iceman
Infinity War!
 
Iceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Londinium, North of Gaul, circa XLIII AD
Posts: 115,351
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
Well, maybe it's just me, but the only reason why Dani was in any way a favorite, was because of her dragons. But, we got Jon now, knowing he is the son of a Targaryen, kill off Dani as the big shock of the season, and give her control of the Dragons to Jon.
Now that would be unpredictable!

__________________
Xbox GT: BAHAMUT ZERO X 148,092 G
X-MEN - AVENGERS - JUSTICE LEAGUE
Iceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 07:42 PM   #106
CB Fan
The Watcher
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In A Place Far Far Away
Posts: 2,675
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Lol, yeah okay...


CB Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 08:05 PM   #107
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 21,623
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

I could see Jon getting a dragon. He's on Dragonstone, he's a Targaryen, there's two dragons doing nothing.

With or without Dany's blessing, I can see him getting one.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 08:10 PM   #108
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 21,623
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
Well considering he burned people alive like that at Black water bay via wildfire, he would be a raging hypocrite. But I'm sure Dany haters would never call him out on that.
But those people weren't Lannisters. They were Baratheons, mercenaries and pirates. He obviously cares about Jaime. A lot. It hasn't really been alluded to, but it's not unreasonable to assume that he cares about his countrymen.

That was what I took away from that scene. He's clearly distraught by the reality of seeing his own people getting roasted alive by a dragon.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 08:10 PM   #109
DarthSkywalker
May the Force Be With You
 
DarthSkywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 83,722
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
Wanting the throne because it's your birthright, and going to war for power and glory, was a big thing in medieval politics. Trying to judge it using modern standards just doesn't really work.

Also Dany being "big on torture" is a stretch, a real stretch.
It is almost like GoT has emphasized how silly that idea is. Or that a certain king, the one actually tried to save the world, wants no part of that ****.

__________________
"I've been running scams on the street since I was ten. I was kicked out of the flight academy for having a mind of my own. I'm going be a pilot. Best in the galaxy."
DarthSkywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 08:23 PM   #110
DarthSkywalker
May the Force Be With You
 
DarthSkywalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 83,722
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvolo View Post
Did I say anything about altruism or duty? No I didn't. She has wanted the throne since she saw it as a real possibility. She thinks it's her birthright. Which it is. Traditionally Jon has the better claim but neither she nor anyone else besides Bran knows that. And with the precedent Cersei set (that women can rule) it could be argued that Dany has a better claim than Jon because she is the daughter of the Mad King and Jon is his grandson.

And no I don't expect her to just shrug and say "Oh well, here's the Iron Throne, Jon." when Bran or Jon tells her that Jon is a Targ. For one thing, she doesn't know Bran and shouldn't just believe that some spaced out crippled guy really is traveling through time and telling the truth. She shouldn't be that gullible, and hopefully D&D won't make her that gullible. She should be skeptical. Even when she believes it, her just being ok with that revelation wouldn't be remotely appropriate. She's been working towards taking back the Iron Throne for years and has grown up thinking she and her brother were the last Targs. And for the past handful of years she has believed she was the last Targ. She shouldn't just be ok with Bran's revelation, happy about it, or immediately accept it. She's not a Vulcan and taking the Throne isn't some minor hobby of hers. It's a life goal. Something she has suffered to achieve. Something she's willing to die for. Expecting her to just give that up is silly.

Why would anyone think Jon is lying about the White Walkers... You have to see this from her point of view rather than a viewer's point of view. Jon shows up, a stranger to her, and starts talking about a supposed army of dead men and mythical monsters and that she needs him and the North just when she wants him to bend the knee and he refuses. To any sensible person, that would come across like horse****. She doesn't know him, his motivations, if he is running some long con, if he is as devious as the rest of the leaders of the great houses, if he is really there to attempt to assassinate her, if he is insane etc. She can't afford to just immediately believe this stranger based on stories and cave drawings. She has to get to know him and he's going to have to do better than stories and cave drawings. It's the same for Jon. He doesn't know her, and won't bend the knee to someone that he doesn't know. Both of them need to spend some time getting to know one another. And in the meantime, a war is going on south of the Wall, and she can't just chill and do nothing while Cersei does whatever the hell she is doing.

Also when has Dany executed or tortured innocent people? If you're referring to her talking about burning people, every time she's done that she's been threatened or attacked or is pissed off or she's trying to intimidate. But she has listened to council each time and held back. She isn't to the point where she is burning innocent people and non combatants.
No, Jon is next in line. It would go straight in line from the male heirs. Jon would have had the claim over Viserys. Everyone knows this, no one has ever argued against this. Where did this argument come from?

Bran can prove his point very, very, very easily. He can see everything. He can hit Dany with something only she knows, prove his abilities. When they see the White Walkers are headed where he says they are headed, that should be proof enough of his sight. But if they need more, he can provide it. As will Jon's ability to interact with the dragons.

And this all ignores the point, because she claims its her right. Not that she earned it, but her right. That is why Jon should bend the kneed to her. It would be hypocrisy of the highest order for her to ignore that, and show exactly how little her supposed claim actually matters to her. For everything Stannis was, he wouldn't have fought Robert for the Throne.

I never said anything about innocent people. Torture is still torture, and I am talking about Meeren. Remember Jon killing Mance to spare him pain? Dany is more then fine with torturing people she thinks deserves it. That isn't Jon's game. He executes who needs to be executed. He doesn't force them to suffer. She is fine with pain, with suffering if she thinks someone deserves it. And she has bad judgment, so who "deserves" something isn't really a good thing for her to judge.

Also, why did anyone have to tell her to not go roast King's Landing? Why did that need to be said?

__________________
"I've been running scams on the street since I was ten. I was kicked out of the flight academy for having a mind of my own. I'm going be a pilot. Best in the galaxy."
DarthSkywalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 09:41 PM   #111
Warhorse
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
Who are these good people on the show whose goal is the throne, not for duty sake, but for a lust for power? Dany desires power. Not altruism, but power. Which is what makes the irony so sweat with her. It is also why so many have to tell her to not go about killing innocent people. She is using the excuse of birthright to get it. Once that is gone, you think she is going to act like the good supportive aunt she should be?

Why would anyone think Jon is lying? What does he get from lying? He wants dragonglass to decorate Winterfell? Unlike the rest of them, he isn't fighting for power and that is rather clear. Otherwise he wouldn't even be at Dragonstone.

Finally, there is a big difference between killing people, and torturing them. Dany is big on the torture. Doing what her enemies do. Jon doesn't do that. He executes people when it is necessary. Spares people when he can. Look at how he handled the war over land earlier this season? Jon is a perfect juxtaposition to how out of control, or at least vicious, Dany is. Others are forced to keep her under control.
I agree. You know who Dani is starting to remind me of? Joffery! Reason I say that, Tywin's comment to him that a king who keeps saying he is king, is no true king.

Warhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 09:45 PM   #112
Reek
_________
 
Reek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 48,608
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Jon's going to sell the dragons on eBay and holler at the golden company. free shipping

Reek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 09:55 PM   #113
Warhorse
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer View Post
Well considering he burned people alive like that at Black water bay via wildfire, he would be a raging hypocrite. But I'm sure Dany haters would never call him out on that.
Please tell me you are joking! Big difference between him and Dani. When Tyrion started to hear the men scream in pain and terror, he was CLEARLY upset and regretful about it. Dani however, seems to enjoy watching men and women scream in pain. Same with Jon. He has to kill in war, but he doesn't enjoy it.

Warhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:03 PM   #114
Reek
_________
 
Reek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 48,608
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Dany is like Trump in the sense that she has to feel powerful to satisfy her massive ego.

and if you don't think she has a massive ego.... Ask Missandei to introduce her to you.... *15 minutes pass*

Reek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:13 PM   #115
Warhorse
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 141
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reek View Post
Dany is like Trump in the sense that she has to feel powerful to satisfy her massive ego.

and if you don't think she has a massive ego.... Ask Missandei to introduce her to you.... *15 minutes pass*
Oh, I am so hoping if Arya ever has to come across Missandei's rant, she will tell her to shut up or slap her silly. Or who knows, maybe Bronn, The Hound or Tormund will knock her out.

Warhorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:15 PM   #116
Reek
_________
 
Reek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 48,608
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

or someone gives her the strangler poison right before it

Reek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:21 PM   #117
BullMcGiveny
Probably Disagree
 
BullMcGiveny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,939
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
I feel like her going all "mad queen" would be incredibly predictable and cliché at this point. "Oh her dad went mad, so now she is to, aren't we clever?" No, no you're not if you go that route.
She's the character most referencing typical fantasy hero tropes, so to have her whole arc turn out to be a journey to villainy would be more original.

She doesn't actually have to be insane like her father. She could simply be consumed by greed and ambition.

Quote:
I also disagree that no one ever calls her out on it, or that she's not presented as flawed.
I must have missed it then.

Because in season 5, she was talking about breaking wheels, in season 6, she said she would consider granting kingdoms their independence. And now she's shown up in Westeros and talking about birthrights, perpetuity, and really not being all that different.

Just in the last episode, when she's convinced the white walkers are real, she immediately decides to use it as leverage to strongarm Jon into bending the knee.

And a few minutes later Missendei talks about people choosing to serve her, and given Davos and Jon's reaction, we're meant to agree.

So any calling out isn't being proportional to the depths of her flaws.

BullMcGiveny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:31 PM   #118
ban768
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 54
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
Please tell me you are joking! Big difference between him and Dani. When Tyrion started to hear the men scream in pain and terror, he was CLEARLY upset and regretful about it. Dani however, seems to enjoy watching men and women scream in pain. Same with Jon. He has to kill in war, but he doesn't enjoy it.
Tyrion wasn't that regretful considering he wanted recognition and Casterly Rock as his reward for what he accomplished at Blackwater.

ban768 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:37 PM   #119
Thundercrack85
Side-Kick
 
Thundercrack85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 21,623
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

I mean, this notion that Dany is a total hero is kind of dubious, considering her life goal is to conquer an entire continent by force.

Is she better than Joffrey? Sure. But she could just as easily live out her life in Essos.

Thundercrack85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:41 PM   #120
KevTravels
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,894
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

what's with all the hate toward the Mother of Dragons?

The fact that she even stated several times that she would not kill innocents proves she's good. Even when she was in a angry mood, she looked to Jon to give her a reason not to let her dragons loose.

She knows her father was the Mad King and doesn't want to be like him. But she does have a birthright (during this period, it's very logical for her to see herself as a god of sorts, especially as she has 3 dragons).

KevTravels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:42 PM   #121
Reek
_________
 
Reek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 48,608
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Tyrion advised her to stay in Essos where she could do the most good... He was absolutely right. Well... Until he found out the Others were coming.

Then she did her stupid wheel speech. I call it stupid because she said her own name

Reek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 10:59 PM   #122
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Loki882's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 20,812
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Comparing her to Joffrey is laughable. As is trying to argue that she enjoyed doing that "there's no evidence of that in the actual episode, that's people projecting their own thoughts onto it, pure and simple."

Oh and BullMcGiveny yes the "hero actually becomes a villain" WOULD be incredibly predictable. And the fact that so many people are calling it just proves that. It's been done A LOT before.

Loki882 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2017, 11:05 PM   #123
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53,088
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

I think the point of Game of Thrones is that it's not black and white. Even the "good" characters do a lot of things that can't really be described as good.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 12:08 AM   #124
Silver Surfer
Power Cosmic
 
Silver Surfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: T.O, Canada
Posts: 2,630
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warhorse View Post
Please tell me you are joking! Big difference between him and Dani. When Tyrion started to hear the men scream in pain and terror, he was CLEARLY upset and regretful about it. Dani however, seems to enjoy watching men and women scream in pain. Same with Jon. He has to kill in war, but he doesn't enjoy it.
Please Tyrion brags about that every chance he gets, including last week's episode. Him being "terrified" by this would be insanely hypocritical.

__________________
We live in a world where Iron Man 3 > DC's Trinity
Silver Surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 12:30 AM   #125
Reek
_________
 
Reek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 48,608
Default Re: Season 7, Episode 5 "Eastwatch" Discussion Thread

Well.. wildfire is a trump card... a single use (or very rarely used) weapon... these dragons are WMD's that don't explode and go away... they are unlimited. I'm not sure Tyrion was terrified of wildfire or the dragons as much as it is him being amazed... especially with dragons... he's literally seeing the stories hes read happen. And not to mention, he probably was more upset about, what should we call this battle, the battle at highgarden(?) .... more than blackwater because it was his brother they were fighting.

Reek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of Mandatory Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2018 All Rights Reserved.