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Old 02-27-2018, 07:29 PM   #1
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Default If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

In other words, if DC had kicked off a successful cinematic universe a decade ago and Marvel were the ones still struggling, how different would the landscape of superhero cinema look right now? Would there be doubts about Marvel's ability to remain relevant in today's world, just like there are with DC at the moment?

Thoughts?

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Old 02-27-2018, 07:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Yes. It would be the same situation in reverse.

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Old 02-27-2018, 07:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed? Well that basically was the situation until 2000.

While there wasn't a cinematic universe from 1978 through 2000, DC was dominant in terms of the success of their films albeit Batman and Superman , while what Marvel films there were were jokes.

There are a whole generation of fans who were too young to conceive of a time when Marvel was a joke in terms of films and DC was supreme, but that was the world I grew up in .

It wasn't till I was a young adult with X Men and the Spiderman films in the early 00s there was a hint at the potential the Good Marvel films on the big screen as opposed to cheap tv movies and never released films.

The Hulk TV show was the high point of Marvel entertainment with the Spiderman tv show being second.

So in a way , it already happened. Its just that alot of fanboys either weren't alive or too young to remember the old status quo.

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Old 02-27-2018, 08:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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Yes. It would be the same situation in reverse.
"Avengers?

They're just trying to remake the totally awesome Justice League Movie" (2011)

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Old 02-27-2018, 08:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

In other words, what if the Nolan-verse grew beyond Gotham?

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Old 02-28-2018, 01:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

What if DCEU has to be launched without two of their biggest properties, which are Superman and Batman? Because MCU was built on the foundation of B and C list characters since they were without Spider-Man and X-Men, the most recognizable properties for Marvel at that time. Could WB had been able to make DCEU work with a Justice League sans Superman and Batman?

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Old 02-28-2018, 10:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed? Well that basically was the situation until 2000.

While there wasn't a cinematic universe from 1978 through 2000, DC was dominant in terms of the success of their films albeit Batman and Superman , while what Marvel films there were were jokes.

There are a whole generation of fans who were too young to conceive of a time when Marvel was a joke in terms of films and DC was supreme, but that was the world I grew up in .

It wasn't till I was a young adult with X Men and the Spiderman films in the early 00s there was a hint at the potential the Good Marvel films on the big screen as opposed to cheap tv movies and never released films.

The Hulk TV show was the high point of Marvel entertainment with the Spiderman tv show being second.

So in a way , it already happened. Its just that alot of fanboys either weren't alive or too young to remember the old status quo.
Dominant with essentially 4 movies. Superman, Superman 2, Batman and Batman Returns.

Their misses Superman III, Supergirl, Superman IV, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Steel.

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Old 02-28-2018, 10:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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Dominant with essentially 4 movies. Superman, Superman 2, Batman and Batman Returns.

Their misses Superman III, Supergirl, Superman IV, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin, Steel.
Pretty sure Batman Forever counts as a success,

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Batman Forever opened in 2,842 theaters in the United States on June 16, 1995, making $52.8 million in its opening weekend,[1] breaking Jurassic Park's record for highest opening weekend gross of all-time (it was surpassed two years later by The Lost World: Jurassic Park's $72.1 million).[41] The film went on to gross $184 million in North America, and $152.5 million in other countries, totaling $336.53 million. The film earned more money than its predecessor Batman Returns,[42] and was the second-highest (behind Toy Story) grossing film of 1995, in the U.S.


Wikipedia
Some fans may not like it, but it did very well.

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Old 02-28-2018, 11:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Technically, DCEU as a collection of 5 movies at $3.7B can be considered successful.

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Old 02-28-2018, 11:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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Technically, DCEU as a collection of 5 movies at $3.7B can be considered successful.
There's nothing technical about Batman Forever's box office. The film did extremely well.

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Old 02-28-2018, 11:10 AM   #11
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Looking back it was the #2 movie of the year but because of how it's looked back upon, it's not unusual to put it with the other DC movies.

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Old 02-28-2018, 11:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

I think it mistakenly gets put in with those misses.

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Old 02-28-2018, 11:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Batman Forever is prime

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Old 02-28-2018, 12:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

I think DC would be a lot better received if Man of Steel had been in the continuity of the Nolanverse and Bale had continued as Batman.

If Iron Man had underperformed and been really divisive there would be a lot of pessimism to the whole idea of a Marvel film universe, a lot of people saying either "Even with Robert Downey Jr. it still failed!" or "Why did they ever cast Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man, what a bad idea!" And a lot of perception that viewers only want iconic superheroes rather than seemingly-new ones.

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Old 02-28-2018, 12:29 PM   #15
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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I think DC would be a lot better received if Man of Steel had been in the continuity of the Nolanverse and Bale had continued as Batman.

If Iron Man had underperformed and been really divisive there would be a lot of pessimism to the whole idea of a Marvel film universe, a lot of people saying either "Even with Robert Downey Jr. it still failed!" or "Why did they ever cast Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man, what a bad idea!" And a lot of perception that viewers only want iconic superheroes rather than seemingly-new ones.
I think rather than pessimism, people would just be paying little attention to it. Even TIH coming out after such an amazing start with Iron Man did low numbers compared to what we're now used to without being an all out terrible film. I think all of Phase 1 would have been low key had IM been a disaster and as a result little hype built up for a team up at the end. The whole thing would have eventually been forgotten.

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Old 02-28-2018, 12:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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Originally Posted by TheFlamingCoco View Post
"Avengers?

They're just trying to remake the totally awesome Justice League Movie" (2011)
That Feige always copying DC and rushing in without setting things up.

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Old 02-28-2018, 03:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Judging a movie on it's financial success has never been a good indicator on how good the movie actually is.

I really never understand why people use that as a metric to determine the success of a movie.

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Old 02-28-2018, 04:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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Judging a movie on it's financial success has never been a good indicator on how good the movie actually is.

I really never understand why people use that as a metric to determine the success of a movie.
To me, financial success is a good gauge of what audiences WANT, though it's really bizarre (some great movies flop, and some bad movies do really well)

I think the thing about that is it's objective-unlike "I liked/hated it."

But yeah, the sad thing is that DC hasn't really launched itself as a trustworthy brand. I feel like Marvel's accomplishments are perceived as an extension of the company whereas DC's (TDK and Wonder-Woman) are seen as more of a director transcending the company's own brand. Sad but true.

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Old 02-28-2018, 05:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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In other words, what if the Nolan-verse grew beyond Gotham?
That would have been the ideal. Unfortunately the Nolan-verse was designed NOT to grow, which is a pity, to say the least.

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What if DCEU has to be launched without two of their biggest properties, which are Superman and Batman? Because MCU was built on the foundation of B and C list characters since they were without Spider-Man and X-Men, the most recognizable properties for Marvel at that time. Could WB had been able to make DCEU work with a Justice League sans Superman and Batman?
That also could have been really interesting. If Batman Begins had instead been the start of a kick-arse Green Lantern or Flash franchise, and we were just now seeing Superman "done right" and the Batman rights were only now returning...

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Old 02-28-2018, 05:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Iron Man=The Flash
The Incredible Hulk=Martian Manhunter
Iron Man 2=The Flash 2
Thor=Aquaman
Captain America=Wonder Woman
Avengers (Iron Man, Cap, Hulk, Thor, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Nick Fury vs Loki)=Justice League (The Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Amanda Waller vs Ocean Master)
Iron Man 3=The Flash 3
Thor 2=Aquaman 2
Captain America: The Winter Soldier=Wonder Woman 2
Guardians of the Galaxy=Green Lantern Corps
Avengers: Age of Ultron=Justice League: Age of Amazo
Ant-Man=The Atom
Captain America: Civil War=Wonder Woman: Identity Crisis
Doctor Strange=Hellblazer
Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2=Green Lantern: Emerald Twilight
Spider-Man: Homecoming=Superman: Homecoming
Thor: Ragnarok=Aquaman 3
Black Panther=Static Shock
Avengers: Infinity War=Justice League: Rock of Ages

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Old 02-28-2018, 06:03 PM   #21
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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That would have been the ideal. Unfortunately the Nolan-verse was designed NOT to grow, which is a pity, to say the least.
It could grow.
I just don't know what to make of the more supernatural side having to be forced within the confines of that "grounded" yet still over the top trademark.

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Old 02-28-2018, 06:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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It could grow.
I just don't know what to make of the more supernatural side having to be forced within the confines of that "grounded" yet still over the top trademark.
Well, off camera, it was Nolan's "mandate" to what degree he could mandate that it not grow, and his ending kind of definitively took Bruce out of the game.

On camera, if WB had had its way with the ending, I think they could have done something really great with the other heroes, especially if they had gone as far afield from "the superhero" film as Batman did. Superman kind of makes for a great disaster movie, which I think Man of Steel attempted to dip into, but lost sight of what makes those work, and tried to also make it some kind of hard sci-fi, and so it ended up feeling gratuitous. Green Lantern would be epic as hard sci-fi, and Flash as the psychological thriller bandied about before could have been good too, though that treads too close to Batman's territory.

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Old 02-28-2018, 06:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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I think DC would be a lot better received if Man of Steel had been in the continuity of the Nolanverse and Bale had continued as Batman.
That certainly is an interesting 'what if' scenario.

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Old 02-28-2018, 07:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

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On camera, if WB had had its way with the ending, I think they could have done something really great with the other heroes, especially if they had gone as far afield from "the superhero" film as Batman did. Superman kind of makes for a great disaster movie, which I think Man of Steel attempted to dip into, but lost sight of what makes those work, and tried to also make it some kind of hard sci-fi, and so it ended up feeling gratuitous. Green Lantern would be epic as hard sci-fi, and Flash as the psychological thriller bandied about before could have been good too, though that treads too close to Batman's territory.
Superman would be something like The Flying Man where the movie is exclusively from the pov of bystanders...but again feels weird. That Flash movie could be something like Jumper, which would then make it more of an adaptation of Millar's MPH.

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Old 02-28-2018, 08:41 PM   #25
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Default Re: If DC and Marvel's cinematic situations were reversed

Looking back, they should’ve done everything in their power to keep Bale

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