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Old 10-19-2017, 10:42 AM   #51
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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Sounds like a real snooze...and considering all we have seen from Thompson in the MCU so far is a deeply unfunny one-liner
You mean the person who is consistently cited as one of the best parts of the film in almost every review and reaction?

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Old 10-19-2017, 11:40 AM   #52
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a history of fair to middlin' comic book sales
At least they have a history of selling. Name me an all-woman superhero team that sold more than a few dozen issues...the concept is a gimmick and not worth basing an entire film budget around. I hope this is Feige pandering like they did in 2013 when Paltrow wanted to come back as Rescue (another idea that many fans took seriously.)

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Old 10-19-2017, 11:43 AM   #53
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I think you would need a really compelling (and commercially appealing) reason for these characters to team up without any of their male allies and I think the more women you have on the women only team the less compelling your reason will end up being to the audience

I think this works best as a charlie's angel type team with 3 or 4 women who fill specific roles like Hacker/Spy(Widow or 13), Physical Power House(Asgardians or Cap Marvel), Versatile Powers person(Scarlet Witch or a Magic wielding Asgaridian), Leader/Tactician/Supplier/Hacker(A Wakandan or an Asgardian especially since Valakarie lead the Valkaries)

As for a reason why they team up without their male allies the best i can think of is Champion elder of the universe or someone shows up and challanges/kidnaps the guys for a battle royale forcing the girls to break them out in this case the rationale is compelling enough that an unlimited number of females on the team without male allies can be justified but is that commercially appealing not sure about that.

Perhaps the team is needed somewhere only women can go, but that isn't any more commercially appealing than the the last idea

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Old 10-19-2017, 11:59 AM   #54
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

There can be a contrived reason but they can make it plausible.

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Old 10-19-2017, 12:14 PM   #55
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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At least they have a history of selling.
Ant-Man certainly doesn't and his movie made 500 million dollars. The last Guardians of the Galaxy series before the big relaunch to try and cash in on the upcoming movie was cancelled because it had low sales. Black Panther also has a history of titles not selling well and Doctor Strange's last attempt at a solo book prior to Marvel NOW! a few years ago ended in 1996.

Comic book sales are entirely irrelevant when discussing a movie. Most people don't read comics, and therefore these are largely new properties to them anyway.

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Name me an all-woman superhero team that sold more than a few dozen issues
You mean like the Birds of Prey, who got to 127 issues of their first series and currently have a new volume being published?


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Old 10-19-2017, 02:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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Ant-Man certainly doesn't and his movie made 500 million dollars. The last Guardians of the Galaxy series before the big relaunch to try and cash in on the upcoming movie was cancelled because it had low sales. Black Panther also has a history of titles not selling well and Doctor Strange's last attempt at a solo book prior to Marvel NOW! a few years ago ended in 1996.

Comic book sales are entirely irrelevant when discussing a movie. Most people don't read comics, and therefore these are largely new properties to them anyway.



You mean like the Birds of Prey, who got to 127 issues of their first series and currently have a new volume being published?
Bolded for emphasis

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Old 10-19-2017, 04:33 PM   #57
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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I think you would need a really compelling (and commercially appealing) reason for these characters to team up without any of their male allies and I think the more women you have on the women only team the less compelling your reason will end up being to the audience

I think this works best as a charlie's angel type team with 3 or 4 women who fill specific roles like Hacker/Spy(Widow or 13), Physical Power House(Asgardians or Cap Marvel), Versatile Powers person(Scarlet Witch or a Magic wielding Asgaridian), Leader/Tactician/Supplier/Hacker(A Wakandan or an Asgardian especially since Valakarie lead the Valkaries)

As for a reason why they team up without their male allies the best i can think of is Champion elder of the universe or someone shows up and challanges/kidnaps the guys for a battle royale forcing the girls to break them out in this case the rationale is compelling enough that an unlimited number of females on the team without male allies can be justified but is that commercially appealing not sure about that.

Perhaps the team is needed somewhere only women can go, but that isn't any more commercially appealing than the the last idea
While I like the idea of an all-women Marvel team, I think that you’re right that it would be difficult to find a way where it makes sense within the context of the universe and doesn’t feel forced. Not impossible, but difficult.

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Old 10-19-2017, 06:35 PM   #58
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

The easiest way I could see it happening is do what they did in Fearless Defenders and have it essentially be Valkyrie forming a new version of the Valkyrior, but with Earth women. That was how it was started. The other Valkyries were all dead, so she was tasked by the ruler of Asgard with forming a replacement.


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Old 10-20-2017, 02:16 AM   #59
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

Mbj
Why would earth women leave the planet to serve as Valkyries? Do they get powers and freedom to move about the realms? Is it for a specific mission?

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While I like the idea of an all-women Marvel team, I think that you’re right that it would be difficult to find a way where it makes sense within the context of the universe and doesn’t feel forced. Not impossible, but difficult.
you said what I wanted to say but far more succinctly, lol

that said let's brainstorm some ideas, Champion was basically the inspiration for my favorite PPG episode "Members Only" but I'm sure something like that can't work for a high budget movie

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Old 10-20-2017, 03:46 AM   #60
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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I think you would need a really compelling (and commercially appealing) reason for these characters to team up without any of their male allies and I think the more women you have on the women only team the less compelling your reason will end up being to the audience
Well then the solution is easy: keep the team small. That way you don't have to explain why its members just happen to be all women. Once you have a team that consists of 4 or 5 heavy hitters (my picks would be Valkyrie, Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch and one or two Phase 4 new entries), who else do you need?

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Old 10-20-2017, 03:48 AM   #61
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

We didn't need a reason for why the first time the Avengers assembled there was only one female, it would be the same in reverse.

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Old 10-20-2017, 04:09 AM   #62
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

Yeah plus women can just like, hang out.

Spoilers for Spider-Man but maybe tony finally pops the question so the girls decide to have a hens night. It would be like girls trip but with superheroes!

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Old 10-20-2017, 06:28 AM   #63
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We didn't need a reason for why the first time the Avengers assembled there was only one female, it would be the same in reverse.
Yes, but at the time those we all of America’s major heroes (that we know of). It just so happened that they were mostly guys (which sucks). Now that there’s been established relationships between the men and women of the MCU, there’d have to be some sort of reason for them to be separated.

If you find some sort of connecting thread, for example a villain who catches the attention of a few heroes, all of which happen to be women, then it would work. Like has been said above, if there’s only a few of them, then it’s far easier to justify an all-female team coming together by chance.

If we get a token man, I want Spider-Man.

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Old 10-20-2017, 08:23 AM   #64
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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Originally Posted by Chance Jackson View Post
I think you would need a really compelling (and commercially appealing) reason for these characters to team up without any of their male allies and I think the more women you have on the women only team the less compelling your reason will end up being to the audience

I think this works best as a charlie's angel type team with 3 or 4 women who fill specific roles like Hacker/Spy(Widow or 13), Physical Power House(Asgardians or Cap Marvel), Versatile Powers person(Scarlet Witch or a Magic wielding Asgaridian), Leader/Tactician/Supplier/Hacker(A Wakandan or an Asgardian especially since Valakarie lead the Valkaries)

As for a reason why they team up without their male allies the best i can think of is Champion elder of the universe or someone shows up and challanges/kidnaps the guys for a battle royale forcing the girls to break them out in this case the rationale is compelling enough that an unlimited number of females on the team without male allies can be justified but is that commercially appealing not sure about that.

Perhaps the team is needed somewhere only women can go, but that isn't any more commercially appealing than the the last idea
While you have a point, I just want to note that it's so interesting that when an all-male team gets together, it does not seem contrived, and that, imho, is reason enough to make this happen.

Writing a non-contrived reason for an all woman squad isn't trivial, sure, but it's not exactly the hardest thing to do.

One popular option is the Girl's Night Out. Two women start a conversation, they bring in/drag a long two other women they know who are in the area, and boom, now you have a group who can be dragged into a plot, let's say the club is owned by Count Nefaria. This is a thing that audiences generally expect, so long as it hews close to how these events actually occur, especially if the group is specifically targeted because of one of the members.

Another popular option is infiltrating an organization as a model/hot chick. This can combine with the first, or be done separately, and was low key Natasha's bread and butter for years, the kind of mission she absolutely could lead. Also works with Count Nefaria.

The next step is to separate the girls from their allies. This isn't trivial either, as while people accept other heroes not being involved somewhat readily for male heroes, they will be harder on the ladies, because as I pointed out earlier, they're used to lady heroes getting saved by male heroes, both in the MCU and elsewhere, so you've got to make the reason even more solid. I would go with 'there is a traitor in your organization' and so they have to fake to their male allies that they're not doing anything, even though they are, essentially re-infiltrating their own stuff, so as not to alert the traitor in any way. That could lead to a lot of fun.

The big question overall is who are they fighting. If they're the 'Liberators' then it should be someone who is capturing stuff. An AIM resurgent or something.

I think the time for a Grandmaster/Collector-powered choose your champion cosmic storyline is done, since Thor 3 did that, and apparently well, you can't dip in that well twice. I'd recommend staying mostly terrestrial, with perhaps a secret space gateway or something.

Natasha Romanov, Carol Danvers, Wanda Maximoff, and Valkyrie are your main four. Maybe you can slip in Shuri or Nakia in there and maybe you can slip in Gamora or something, but the important thing, more than any other, is that you sell us on a genuine friendship between these characters. Those early conversations have to feel real, not fetishized or whatever, but friendships that anyone can identify with. If that's done, people will "forgive" the women team up for not being any more believable than the male one.

Also, if you really wanna be cheeky, you gotta throw a token guy on the team.

EDIT: Also, if you really wanna be next level, give the team a specific function, like they handle all the terrestrial infiltration type stuff, or something, like... we NEED this team, not just because they're ladies, but because what they bring to the table with that is so important to us.

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:14 AM   #65
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

I feel like Wanda and Natasha would already be out, like maybe widow is taking Wanda out for a night due to her being sheltered before. Something happens while they're out, and Danvers is the one involved and they happen to be there and are roped into helping. Happens all the time in the books and cartoons.

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:16 AM   #66
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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I feel like Wanda and Natasha would already be out, like maybe widow is taking Wanda out for a night due to her being sheltered before. Something happens while they're out, and Danvers is the one involved and they happen to be there and are roped into helping. Happens all the time in the books and cartoons.
I like this idea.

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:33 AM   #67
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I heartily approve of the Girls Night Out leading to the formation of the the Lady Liberators/A Force. A gang of super powered thugs (The Wrecking Crew, right?) tries to violently take down a casino, not realizing that the gals dressed to the nines at the blackjack table for a birthday/bachelorette party are superheroes in civies. They efficiently take down the chauvinistic thugs, but quickly realize THERE'S SOMETHING MORE SINISTER GOING ON HERE!!!

This stuff writes itself!

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Old 10-20-2017, 09:33 AM   #68
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

Give me a Black Widow, Pepper Potts and Maria Hill taking on Madame Masque based on the "Stark Disassembled" story line from Invincible Iron Man 20-24 movie.

That was gold right there. Those three were great together for those few issues.



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Old 10-20-2017, 10:04 AM   #69
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

I repeat myself, but I see no reason to justify the team being predominantly female. Treat it matter-of-factly, toss in a cheeky token male and never look back.
While I would not see anything really wrong with the "night out" scenario, it is already a bit too apologetic for my tastes, but I reckon the spirit of those suggestions is totally well intentioned.
Pending the resolution of Avengers 5, no reason we could not find ourselves with a predominantly female line-up. Improbable, I know, but depending on the reception of Valkyrie, Captain Marvel and Wasp this may be feasible.

Give me Black Widow, Wasp, Wanda, Valkyrie, Captain Marvel, Monica Rambeau and Black Panther.

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Old 10-20-2017, 10:13 AM   #70
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

It could work but one thing that makes it more difficult is that a lot of the best female superheroes in Marvel are tied to the X-Men which is of course with Fox. No Storm, Rogue, Jean Grey, etc. Makes it a tougher row to how imo.

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Old 10-20-2017, 10:40 AM   #71
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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It could work but one thing that makes it more difficult is that a lot of the best female superheroes in Marvel are tied to the X-Men which is of course with Fox. No Storm, Rogue, Jean Grey, etc. Makes it a tougher row to how imo.
The X-Ladies are great on the comic book page, but Storm, Rogue and Jean Grey have not been that strong in the film series. Marvel has established a compelling line up of female heroes - Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Valkyrie, Wasp, Gamora, Mantis, Medusa (kidding!), with Captain Marvel coming up - that won't require the use of mutants.

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Old 10-20-2017, 11:34 AM   #72
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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We didn't need a reason for why the first time the Avengers assembled there was only one female, it would be the same in reverse.
That was explained though, when the avengers were formed Shield was aware of like 5 earth based beings operating far above human level Cap, Ironman, War-Machine, Hulk, and Abomination the later 3 were not planned as members for obvious reasons, shield then added their best normal human agents to the team as well. The first avengers team were just what was available to SHIELD by contrast a female only team would obviously HAVE to exclude much of what is available and the larger the team the bigger the feeling of exclusion.

Then there is the "audience buy in" factor which can more or less reconcile all male super hero teams with military fire team/squad dynamics and the media around them as it is often a lot of the same tropes at work and women are rarely part of these trope dynamics outside of spy/analyst roles because US Special Operations squads(Force Recon, Deltas, Seals etc) do not have women in them so there is nothing unnatural about seeing few women in movies of that nature the Super Hero Movie version of that are the superhero team movies we have which is why imo you have to follow the Charlies Angel Mold as far as the field team is concerned(they would not need males in their hierarchy or support but you would HAVE to have a good reason why it is just these people, it is not something that can be hand waived by the hystery of all guy or mostly guy teams)

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Old 10-20-2017, 11:43 AM   #73
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While you have a point, I just want to note that it's so interesting that when an all-male team gets together, it does not seem contrived, and that, imho, is reason enough to make this happen.

Writing a non-contrived reason for an all woman squad isn't trivial, sure, but it's not exactly the hardest thing to do.

One popular option is the Girl's Night Out. Two women start a conversation, they bring in/drag a long two other women they know who are in the area, and boom, now you have a group who can be dragged into a plot, let's say the club is owned by Count Nefaria. This is a thing that audiences generally expect, so long as it hews close to how these events actually occur, especially if the group is specifically targeted because of one of the members.

Another popular option is infiltrating an organization as a model/hot chick. This can combine with the first, or be done separately, and was low key Natasha's bread and butter for years, the kind of mission she absolutely could lead. Also works with Count Nefaria.

The next step is to separate the girls from their allies. This isn't trivial either, as while people accept other heroes not being involved somewhat readily for male heroes, they will be harder on the ladies, because as I pointed out earlier, they're used to lady heroes getting saved by male heroes, both in the MCU and elsewhere, so you've got to make the reason even more solid. I would go with 'there is a traitor in your organization' and so they have to fake to their male allies that they're not doing anything, even though they are, essentially re-infiltrating their own stuff, so as not to alert the traitor in any way. That could lead to a lot of fun.

The big question overall is who are they fighting. If they're the 'Liberators' then it should be someone who is capturing stuff. An AIM resurgent or something.

I think the time for a Grandmaster/Collector-powered choose your champion cosmic storyline is done, since Thor 3 did that, and apparently well, you can't dip in that well twice. I'd recommend staying mostly terrestrial, with perhaps a secret space gateway or something.

Natasha Romanov, Carol Danvers, Wanda Maximoff, and Valkyrie are your main four. Maybe you can slip in Shuri or Nakia in there and maybe you can slip in Gamora or something, but the important thing, more than any other, is that you sell us on a genuine friendship between these characters. Those early conversations have to feel real, not fetishized or whatever, but friendships that anyone can identify with. If that's done, people will "forgive" the women team up for not being any more believable than the male one.

Also, if you really wanna be cheeky, you gotta throw a token guy on the team.

EDIT: Also, if you really wanna be next level, give the team a specific function, like they handle all the terrestrial infiltration type stuff, or something, like... we NEED this team, not just because they're ladies, but because what they bring to the table with that is so important to us.
I think if you put a guy on the team the optics wil be that marvel isn't confident in its females to sell the movie and that would also be unfortunate

That said I agree with your ideas, putting most of the team in an infiltration role would work rather than just making it Widow's thing


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Old 10-20-2017, 11:44 AM   #74
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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The X-Ladies are great on the comic book page, but Storm, Rogue and Jean Grey have not been that strong in the film series. Marvel has established a compelling line up of female heroes - Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Valkyrie, Wasp, Gamora, Mantis, Medusa (kidding!), with Captain Marvel coming up - that won't require the use of mutants.
Those can all work well yes. But I'd also like to see the X-Women done properly. They are a huge strength of the X-Men lineup in comics and about time this was fully translated to film.

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Old 10-20-2017, 12:00 PM   #75
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Default Re: Tessa Thompson wants an all female superhero movie

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That was explained though, when the avengers were formed Shield was aware of like 5 earth based beings operating far above human level Cap, Ironman, War-Machine, Hulk, and Abomination the later 3 were not planned as members for obvious reasons, shield then added their best normal human agents to the team as well. The first avengers team were just what was available to SHIELD by contrast a female only team would obviously HAVE to exclude much of what is available and the larger the team the bigger the feeling of exclusion.

Then there is the "audience buy in" factor which can more or less reconcile all male super hero teams with military fire team/squad dynamics and the media around them as it is often a lot of the same tropes at work and women are rarely part of these trope dynamics outside of spy/analyst roles because US Special Operations squads(Force Recon, Deltas, Seals etc) do not have women in them so there is nothing unnatural about seeing few women in movies of that nature the Super Hero Movie version of that are the superhero team movies we have which is why imo you have to follow the Charlies Angel Mold as far as the field team is concerned(they would not need males in their hierarchy or support but you would HAVE to have a good reason why it is just these people, it is not something that can be hand waived by the hystery of all guy or mostly guy teams)
IMO you are over rationalizing it.
There are a lot of possible explanations in-universe, only limits are the skills of the writers and The Will Of The Feige.

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