Exploring marvel aliens

[TheCorpulent1]

It's not perfect, but it works. Creating stories solely to "clean up" continuity errors also tends to result in really dry, boring stories. Unless you're Kurt Busiek, for some reason.

[shiva666]

Originally Posted by TheCorpulent1

It's not perfect, but it works. Creating stories solely to "clean up" continuity errors also tends to result in really dry, boring stories. Unless you're Kurt Busiek, for some reason.

Tends to?

not solely, the way i see it, it's not about the stories, it's about much deeper core concepts. Changing even the medium itself.

[Anubis]

Who the f**k are you supposed to be?

Is this Matt Fraction?

I LOVE your Casanova but you suck at stuff you didn't create.

[shiva666]

Just another amateur() with higher expectations from superhero comics.

[THANOSRULES]

Originally Posted by shiva666

Tends to?

not solely, the way i see it, it's not about the stories, it's about much deeper core concepts. Changing even the medium itself.

I don't want the medium changed..I want a damn comic.

I'm up for new stuff when done right... Annihilation was very bold and somewhat of a drastic change..it rocked...it worked..some of those bold Silver Surfer minis have been drastic and sucked big time.

In any event were talking cosmic books here right?

Your thoughts define what sucks about marvel and DC. The problem mostly is that self righteous writers/editors tend to think you need bold inventive hooks and re-defining ****..when really the best stuff is just a simple formula: solid characters, Story, and art.. it IS about the story.

So annihilation works for me because it was solid writing..not because it was a new style.

anyway while we wait for some "profound new direction" in Marvel Cosmic we are left with jack squat for anything...

[SuperFerret]

Streamlining things is fine, but given the vastness of the universe, there's no need to streamline alien species or have them all be interconnected.

[THANOSRULES]

Originally Posted by SuperFerret

Streamlining things is fine, but given the vastness of the universe, there's no need to streamline alien species or have them all be interconnected.

Thing is they tried this crap...recently too and although I think it translated some decent stuff..it didn't do much profound to the popularity of the cosmic U...at least in terms of sales.

Annihilation

was supposed to eliminate tons of sentient worlds..it decimated the Skrull empire, although in short order the Skrull were the main feature in a major marvel event, which reduced them more. Nova corps and Xandar were streamlined into 1 dude with a machine in his head (which also didnt last)

Merged negative zone more in tune with actual cosmic U...which really had not been done before as the negative zone was more or less an FF property.

Conquest..merged Phalanx AND Ultron with Cosmic Stories being X-villians and Avengers (mainly earthbound) foes respectively.



GOTG

Had all sorts of awesomeness with these things, such as Cosmic a communist dog in space, a celestial head, and some great shelved characters of yesterday that really were put back into prominence, the book also had a great take/link on the Valentino GOTG, and there was true knowledge and respect for that series..they were tied together great.

War of Kings/Kingbreaker/Etc..

Shi'har got taken over by a human mutant..and the Kree and Inhumans were linked. Really just merging the Shihar with "mainline cosmic" U was a honest venture of this (these) series, which had been somewhat attempted before, but was none the less not really complete.

Put Darkhawk in Space and established a whole new link with the cosmic U.

Thanos Imperative didnt really do much profound with links/streamlining, except it was just a damn good tale. I guess you could say it streamlined crap by killing off

So I'm not really sure what your talking about again..marvels been doing this.

Changing even the medium itself.

What the hell does changing the medium even mean? Like open a comic and we have pudding stains on paper or what?

[Mulholland '49]

Originally Posted by shiva666

Tends to?

not solely, the way i see it, it's not about the stories, it's about much deeper core concepts. Changing even the medium itself.

They should be about both.

[shiva666]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

They should be about both.

Change the concept, the story must follow... the story is built around this world after all.

Originally Posted by THANOSRULES

What the hell does changing the medium even mean? Like open a comic and we have pudding stains on paper or what?

Ah, the ol' resentment against ze artsey folk.

Well, as i already stated somewhere in this forums the medium change will pass through a more object oriented printed form as well as a more interactive digital form.
ex:
A simple thing like as many pages as fits the story best (digital = virtually infinite page space), should completely change the way the story is told.

Marvel has succeeded in implanting alternate realities as book lines (616, ultimate) , it would be best to just to make some others (this ones streamlined and exploiting new venues in illustration styles, aimed audiences and the new medium)

Changing 616 with heavy use of retcons didn't and won't accomplish anything new.

[THANOSRULES]

Originally Posted by shiva666

Change the concept, the story must follow... the story is built around this world after all.


Ah, the ol' resentment against ze artsey folk.

Well, as i already stated somewhere in this forums the medium change will pass through a more object oriented printed form as well as a more interactive digital form.
ex:
A simple thing like as many pages as fits the story best (digital = virtually infinite page space), should completely change the way the story is told.

Marvel has succeeded in implanting alternate realities as book lines (616, ultimate) , it would be best to just to make some others (this ones streamlined and exploiting new venues in illustration styles, aimed audiences and the new medium)

Changing 616 with heavy use of retcons didn't and won't accomplish anything new.

Well we could alter the topic of this thread by going down this road. But what you say is somewhat true, but I don't expect printed comics to go the way of the dinosaur anytime soon. In fact, i think comics, as physical works of art and as collectibles have more potential sustaining power than even written books themselves.

I'm not a lock stock continuity glutton...I have an open mind...but you have to be very guarded about overkill for it's own sake.

I really agree with notion of just "not using" things instead of eradicating or changing beyond recognition. (which also goes for marvel's "teen" glut of heroes)

Marvel continuity wasnt half as muddled as DC, and the point is it doesnt need these massive reboots, retcons, or kill offs to work.

If anything i want more experimentation, but in a different way... I want Marvel to write Silver Surfer and Nova books instead of double ship Spider Man and have 9 Spidey books. I want crap like an Eternals book and freakin Machine man..with even the small percent marvel "rakes in" from these zillion dollar grossing movies..i think they can grind through some boldness in what they put out for ongoings...marvel doesnt even need to make a real profit from written books. (and its not like these 3rd rate cap spin offs are selling either)

..but as for major continuity cleanups..no, not on board on a large scale.

[shiva666]

Originally Posted by THANOSRULES

Well we could alter the topic of this thread by going down this road...

... In fact, i think comics, as physical works of art and as collectibles have more potential sustaining power than even written books themselves.

If anything i want more experimentation, but in a different way... I want Marvel to write Silver Surfer and Nova books instead of double ship Spider Man and have 9 Spidey books. I want crap like an Eternals book and freakin Machine man..with even the small percent marvel "rakes in" from these zillion dollar grossing movies..i think they can grind through some boldness in what they put out for ongoings...marvel doesnt even need to make a real profit from written books.

I didn't want to explain nor defend WHY i wanted people's opinion on favorite alien races or cosmic entities. I was hoping to get a better view of the current marvel cosmos from fans since I've been somewhat out of the loop.

If we compare with the music industry, on one side you have the digital platform taking over yet you also have the return of vinyl for collectors.

As do I, imo, Marvel should keep just a few ongoing big 616 titles, and come up with your said BOLD Books (not magazines) where they could have a much tighter cohesive work and a lot more experimentation using less known characters, different graphic styles and even print formats. (Iron man printed in real metallic colors or invisible woman as a glossy-varnish silhouette, etc)
----------------------------------------------

But now more on topic, I never quite got The Eternals and deviants, have they been used lately at all? Celestials kinda made them ok... but what makes them different from say Inhumans?

[THANOSRULES]

I didn't want to explain nor defend WHY i wanted people's opinion on favorite alien races or cosmic entities. I was hoping to get a better view of the current marvel cosmos from fans since I've been somewhat out of the loop.

Right now the simple answer is it is crap. Marvel cosmic has no brand..it's just a simple arc potential for books like FF, Avengers, and X-men..and that is the worst possible situation for any hope at a unified continuity.. because as we see guys like Fraction and Bendis don't give 2 craps about continuity...and let me say perhaps continuity is too strong a word..what they ignore is stuff that was literally just done and developed with the character sometimes they even don't care what is going on at the time.

Marvel cosmic needs at least 1 flagship book at all times (and NOT FF)...and marvel should keep that despite the sales.

and let me clarify that a need for cohesion with the "universe" is IMO unneeded..but we do need "cohesion" of some important aspects of continuity..especially in the case we've seen more often..recent continuity. (see Bendis Avengers Assembled)

If we compare with the music industry, on one side you have the digital platform taking over yet you also have the return of vinyl for collectors.

Again, a topic for a different thread, but I disagree the music industry is comparable to the comic industry.

As do I, imo, Marvel should keep just a few ongoing big 616 titles, and come up with your said BOLD Books (not magazines) where they could have a much tighter cohesive work and a lot more experimentation using less known characters, different graphic styles and even print formats. (Iron man printed in real metallic colors or invisible woman as a glossy-varnish silhouette, etc)

Again, i would argue marvel has been experimenting with stuff for over 30 years. It will never equal large scale appeal. Marvel does a good job with Variants these days, and # relaunch ensuring there is a viable collectible market for the books as "products" and "collectibles".

They've been experimental with unorthodox art since the 80s with books like Havok and Wolverine Meltdown. The metal crap we've seen in the 90s on covers,notably silver surfer #50..a great comic. It is largely considered a gimmick and failure as a device. Spidey #1 anyone?

It seems to me you are a big fan of art..and of the "art" of comics...as am I. I just think we have much different definitions about what the beauty of the art of comics IS. I love the wide open Jack Kirby muddled creations aspect. I think the stuff that Kirby and Starlin created for marvel cosmic..is part of the ART. The creative juices and limitless potential of the stories being wide open to writers and artists is awesome. To me cohesion of the "universe" is not as important as cohesion of the "story".