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Old 02-15-2018, 07:24 AM   #176
Dark Raven
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

I prefer the way they make the movie one look which isn't too dark but still quite light and retaining that silver-grey colour. The one in Discovery looks blue in the darkness of space.

Yes, I know that it shouldn't be lit up that way as in the original series or the movies, but that's the way I've come to know them now.

I hope the Enterprise crew will have similar uniforms to the Cage, but just a 21st century take on them. Same with the bridge design. I don't want it to look like the Apple store, like JJ Abrams did. And I don't want it like the bridge of the Discovery either.

They can say re the uniforms, that Enterprise are wearing the latest updates which are being introduced. And the bridge can always be explained as having a retro fit, just like some people like classic cars.

After all, you do get iPhone cases which look like old cassette tapes now, which is clearly antiquated.

The Cage uniforms are not a big jump from the Discovery ones either. They're not as bright or colourful as the Kirk era uniforms. The blues and yellows are much more subdued, and there's no red yet. And definitely no green Captain's shirt.

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Old 02-15-2018, 09:16 AM   #177
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Among Trek scholars , a distinction is made between “narrative continuity” and “visual continuity.”

The DISCO showrunners claim they’re maintaining narrative continuity and that (somehow) their various plot lines will (eventually) line up with the broader, overall mythology. Visual continuity, however, is another matter. Most modern Trek iterations (not just DISCO) don’t seem to be that concerned about replicating 1960s TV production design.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:09 AM   #178
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

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Among Trek scholars , a distinction is made between “narrative continuity” and “visual continuity.”

The DISCO showrunners claim they’re maintaining narrative continuity and that (somehow) their various plot lines will (eventually) line up with the broader, overall mythology. Visual continuity, however, is another matter. Most modern Trek iterations (not just DISCO) don’t seem to be that concerned about replicating 1960s TV production design.
They should be though. The visuals are a big part of the iconography.

With the 1998 Godzilla film, they went with a completely different, unrecognisable design because they wanted something more modern and which they thought would look more badass. It didn't look like Godzilla though.

With the recent film, they took the original Toho design and simply rendered it with today's technology, but he still looked more or less the same. They explained that they took the approach that the Toho version was as if a child made a drawing of a real monster as best as they could remember it. The movie version though was as if they actually managed to photograph the real monster. It was still faithful to the original.

That's the approach they should take with the 60s Star Trek technology. And they certainly shouldn't eschew the uniform colours. Even the JJ Abrams films haven't done that, and it's all the better for it. I far prefer the primary colours to the single colour we've had with both Enterprise and now Discovery.

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Old 02-15-2018, 10:51 AM   #179
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Not a bad final, but I've enjoyed some of the other Discovery episodes more. Michelle definitely plays the part of an evil former empress much better than she plays a Federation Captain.

I further loved the Enterprise showing up, and I approve of the redesign; its still very much TOS, but has elements of a modern look that fit in nicely with Discovery too. I just hope the bridge isn't styled to TOS too much. I expect to see Pike, not sure we'll see Spock though; there will probably be a reference from Sarek stating he needs to take care of something, but that'll be it.

I know people prefer all the old style stuff; old ship designs, old sets, old costumes (etc) but we're living in modern times now, and modern shows are always going to reflect that. I would prefer not to see a dated TOS bridge, or dated Constitution. I like the ship, and I'm hoping the bridge will be modernised. Not too sure how they're going to solve the uniform situation though; it'll look odd if they're different, but at the same time, seeing a Constitution crew in anything other than their traditional look would just seem out of place.

I'm also assuming that the new captain is indeed a rescued prime Lorca, simply because if it was anyone else, they might as well have just promoted Saru. I can't for one minute think a new captain is going to reflect much upon this show unless it's someone we already know, so yeah, my money is on Lorca Prime.

What I didn't quite like is how the war ended; L'Rell spouted on about honour and unification, but was willing to destroy Qo'nos if the other houses didn't do as they're told? Not very honourable. Also, it was clearly stated by Martok in DS9 that his people (the Klingons) never attempted an assault on Earth, and yet here we see a Klingon Fleet all good and ready for that assault - so I'd say they'd moved past the point of deciding to attempt one.

I did however like the scenes on the ground; depicting Human, Klingon and Orion (seemingly) living in a form of harmony; just goes to show that an entire culture shouldn't be judged on the actions of a few, and that, in this instance, not all Klingons wanted to kill all Humans.

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Old 02-15-2018, 11:40 AM   #180
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

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Among Trek scholars , a distinction is made between “narrative continuity” and “visual continuity.”

The DISCO showrunners claim they’re maintaining narrative continuity and that (somehow) their various plot lines will (eventually) line up with the broader, overall mythology. Visual continuity, however, is another matter. Most modern Trek iterations (not just DISCO) don’t seem to be that concerned about replicating 1960s TV production design.
I can understand why they think it best to avoid some naturally dated visuals from TOS but I admit it was fun to see the old bridge have a cameo in the Scotty episode of TNG, and then the DS9 crew interact with the TOS crew (and Sisko ignoring the temporal prime directive to get onto the old bridge at the end just to meet kirk face to face) in the anniversary Tribble episode.

Afaik that was was the first time the difference between the human looking TOS era Klingons and the bumpy headed jobs from the movies/TNG era was acknowledged in continuity?

The Enterprise series explained the how and why that happened but so far Discovery has ignored that completely.

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Old 02-15-2018, 11:56 AM   #181
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The Enterprise series explained the how and why that happened but so far Discovery has ignored that completely.
Enterprise showed where Klingon's started to become human in appearance, and then by TOS they practically are all human (least those we've seen).

I would theorise (for the sake of consistency) that those human looking Klingons still very much exist in the DSC timeline, but because they're do reminiscent of humanity, they aren't thought all that highly of; like Voq because of his white skin. It's further possible that the humans we saw on Qo'nos were in fact Klingons but without their ridges.

We know (via Enterprise) that he genetic disorder doesn't, or didn't effect every single Klingon in existence, so it stands to reason that some would have ridges, and some wouldn't. Presumably at some point the Klingon Empire (maybe under the orders of L'Rell) starts to utilize their flat headed comrades when dealing with the Federation, whilst those with their ridges focus their attention elsewhere?

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:01 PM   #182
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Maybe the Klingons in Discovery all have some genetic disorder, because they look so different to any other Klingon we've seen. They might as well be another race. And their speech is awful. They sound like they have false teeth that don't fit properly.

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:02 PM   #183
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Maybe the Klingons in Discovery all have some genetic disorder, because they look so different to any other Klingon we've seen. They might as well be another race. And their speech is awful. They sound like they have false teeth that don't fit properly.
That's because they do.

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:51 PM   #184
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

the Klingon lingo always sounded to ME as if they were gargling with spit and phlegm...

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Old 02-15-2018, 12:56 PM   #185
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Whilst I agree that the Klingon language usually sounds terrible, there is, I think, one exception, and that's when it's been spoken in the JJverse; here is seems very fluent and coherent, less ... barky and more an actual language, both in the scene with Uhura, and in the deleted scene of the first film where Nero gets surrounded.

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Old 02-15-2018, 01:00 PM   #186
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

though I DID get a kick at how it was Klingon-speak that said "previously on Star Trek Discovery" at the beginning... nice touch, I thought...

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Old 02-15-2018, 02:25 PM   #187
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Maybe by TOS era all Klingons' went through the same surgerical procedure as Voq.

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Old 02-15-2018, 02:37 PM   #188
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

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Whilst I agree that the Klingon language usually sounds terrible, there is, I think, one exception, and that's when it's been spoken in the JJverse; here is seems very fluent and coherent, less ... barky and more an actual language, both in the scene with Uhura, and in the deleted scene of the first film where Nero gets surrounded.
The Klingons might've sounded aggressive and barky, but never like they gargling fish and coughing up their false teeth like in Discovery.

Worf never sounded at all like anyone in Discovery. Imagine having to put up with him for 7 seasons on TNG and 4 seasons on DS9 if he sounded like that. And none of his fellow Klingons sounded like Voq or L'Rell either.

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Old 02-15-2018, 02:52 PM   #189
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The Klingons might've sounded aggressive and barky, but never like they gargling fish and coughing up their false teeth like in Discovery.

Worf never sounded at all like anyone in Discovery. Imagine having to put up with him for 7 seasons on TNG and 4 seasons on DS9 if he sounded like that. And none of his fellow Klingons sounded like Voq or L'Rell either.
True, I just think out of all the Klingon we've heard, the spoken language has seemed more fluid within the JJverse.

I guess, with DSC, they went a little too hard on the makeup and prosthetics which in turn disrupted the voices of the cast. Maybe they should have spoke first, and then lip synced during the actual filming.

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Old 02-15-2018, 04:18 PM   #190
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

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I can understand why they think it best to avoid some naturally dated visuals from TOS but I admit it was fun to see the old bridge have a cameo in the Scotty episode of TNG, and then the DS9 crew interact with the TOS crew (and Sisko ignoring the temporal prime directive to get onto the old bridge at the end just to meet kirk face to face) in the anniversary Tribble episode.
Yeah… But that episode of DS9 was fan service - a nostalgic homage. It’s highly doubtful that you make an entire 21st century sci-fi series based on a 1960s aesthetic. Even The Orville (which, arguably, could have played such aesthetics as a joke) didn’t go there. Bottom line: any modern Trek has to compete against other modern sci-fi. And none of them are beholden to 50-year-old production design.

**
I never really understood the criticism towards DISCO’s version of the Klingon language. To me, it sounds quite unusual and “alien” - which is rather the point. And even if the Klingons spoke “clearer,” I’d still have to rely on the sub-titles. Alas, I don’t speak Klingon.

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Old 02-15-2018, 04:28 PM   #191
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Yeah, I hate the look and sound of the Disco Klingons, but the strength of this show's storylines helped me get over it.

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Old 02-15-2018, 05:20 PM   #192
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Default Re: Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

The Discovery Klingons sound like Merman from He-Man and the Masters of the Universe. He always sounded like he was talking from under the sea, even when he was on dry land.

And come to think of it, the Klingon uniforms look like Merman's as well. That's why I said they look like fish people.

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