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Old 03-01-2014, 09:01 AM   #926
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

I think that Jon won't become Jon Stark in the sense that anyone will legitimize him, but I think whatever oath he swore to the Watch dies with him and in that sense he'd have fulfilled his Oath.

As to the second part

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I don't think Jon's ressurection will be normal in the way that regular resurrections have happened. His soul is in Ghost now, and that's something we attribute to the side of the Old Gods, the more "Ice" side of the magic spectrum. Coupled with Mel's fire resurrection, I think we'll literally see a combination of Ice and Fire. I mean, my belief about the entire Ice and Fire conflict, the White Walkers, R'hllor etc...I don't think that it's good vs evil. It's like the quote Jorah says in the season 4 trailer "There's good and evil on both sides of every battle ever fought." I think it's a case of Ice represents one thing and Fire another, and this thing with the seasons being out of balance is what's causing this whole massive conflict. I think Jon being of both Ice and Fire will be the key to fixing the world in some way.

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Old 03-01-2014, 03:06 PM   #927
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So does that mean you could see Jon
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
fighting for both sides in Dance 2.0 or whatever's going on when he's revived? Also there was a line in the foreshadowing special from Jon, "I felt like I had been asleep for a year and when I woke up the wall/world(?) had fallen." Maybe we get a 1 year gap between the end of ADWD and Jon's resurrection.

Any guesses as to what the children of the forest stand to gain from the presumable dragons vs others conflict?

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Old 03-01-2014, 11:12 PM   #928
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

That line from Jon is clearly in regarding him learning about the Red Wedding and what other things have happened to his family.

I personally hope Jon:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Becomes part of the Others or remains dead. George R.R Martin boasts how he has taken the clichés of fantasy and taken them apart and made his own thing. Jon Snow as the super legendary Azor Ahai is too much of a cliché, there has to be a twist to this.

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Old 03-01-2014, 11:26 PM   #929
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That line from Jon is clearly in regarding him learning about the Red Wedding and what other things have happened to his family.

I personally hope Jon:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Becomes part of the Others or remains dead. George R.R Martin boasts how he has taken the clichés of fantasy and taken them apart and made his own thing. Jon Snow as the super legendary Azor Ahai is too much of a cliché, there has to be a twist to this.
A moment of vulnerability for Jon, I'm sure. I couldn't help but wonder if it's something D&D threw in after having met with George about where everyone's going. Like some people think the Mel/Thoros meeting is based on something George told them about the last books.

Mel's chapter in ADWD

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
She sees a boy with a wolf's head beside a white face during one of her visions. Some think it's Bran with the greenseer. Given that Jon warged into Ghost....you might be onto something.

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Old 03-02-2014, 01:01 AM   #930
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I personally don't think GRRM is going to turn things on their head just for the sake of it, I don't think he's like Abercrombie in the sense that he set out to twist expectations of fantasy storytelling around, he has a bigger mission statement methinks.

I mean he's already followed cliches and standard tropes by having the ultimate underdog-Tyrion, always manage to survive and overcome whatever problems are thrown at him, no matter how huge and overwhelming. So he's not going out of his way to do things just to be different.

In terms of The Children:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I think that the Children are basically doing damage control with the White Walkers. The Children in my opinion represent an older force of "Ice" that perhaps created the White Walkers/Others during their early conflicts with the forces of "Fire", but at some point the conflict went Hiroshima on them all and ****ed up the seasons, which has somewhat altered the WW's into being a weapon that not even the Children can control anymore.

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Old 03-02-2014, 01:03 AM   #931
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Originally Posted by Victarion View Post
A moment of vulnerability for Jon, I'm sure. I couldn't help but wonder if it's something D&D threw in after having met with George about where everyone's going. Like some people think the Mel/Thoros meeting is based on something George told them about the last books.

Mel's chapter in ADWD

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
She sees a boy with a wolf's head beside a white face during one of her visions. Some think it's Bran with the greenseer. Given that Jon warged into Ghost....you might be onto something.
She specifically sees a wooden face, like the Weirwoods, which makes me think it's Bloodraven.

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Old 03-05-2014, 12:39 AM   #932
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

Anyone read Dangerous Women?

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Old 03-05-2014, 12:56 AM   #933
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Anyone read Dangerous Women?
Roose has. I need to get that to see about TQaTQ (and that Sam Sykes story). I can tell you that Martin, Sykes, and Abercrombie are good.

GURM released another paragraph from TWOW. A Tyrion one.

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Old 03-05-2014, 03:35 AM   #934
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Anyone read Dangerous Women?
Yeah it's a great little collection. Obviously the Princess and the Queen segment and the entire backstory about the Targaryen civil war is fascinating stuff and the main draw, (Daemon Targaryen needs his own spin off) but the stuff by Sanderson, Sterling and especially Joe Abercrombie is great too.


That Also reminds me, there's going to be another short story collection edited by GRRM out in a few months. I don't think it features any Westeros material, but Abercrombie has another story planned to tie into his First Law series that'll be included.

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Old 03-05-2014, 01:20 PM   #935
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Yeah I need to read The First Law series I hear it is the best and closest thing to ASOFAI, would you say it is roose?

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Old 03-05-2014, 04:46 PM   #936
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I'd say The First Law is probably on ASOIAF's level. The last three books Abercrombie released are on par, if not better than most of the non-ASOS books. He astounds me.

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Old 03-05-2014, 05:51 PM   #937
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Alright I will look into the audio books this weekend.

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Old 03-06-2014, 04:57 AM   #938
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Finally finished A Storm of Swords, really want to start Feast soon, but i hear that it's very boring compared to the other books and that these last 2 books are full of filler

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Old 03-06-2014, 07:53 AM   #939
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I'd be careful listening to that sort of talk. Disgruntled fans would have you believe that Feast and Dance are nothing BUT filler, which is complete rubbish. Feast introduces one of the new main villains of the series along with continuing on with Jaime's arc and the continued downfall of the Lannisters. Brienne is most fillerish character. Dance, likewise, introduces several major new threads and has the famous Reek storyline at it's heart.

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Old 03-06-2014, 11:26 AM   #940
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Feast is a slog to get through since there's no Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Bran, or Davos chapters. Everything that happens is mostly with Sam, Arya, the Iron Islands, and southern Westeros.

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Old 03-06-2014, 02:33 PM   #941
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I felt Sam's chapters could've been condensed. Ditto for Brienne and Arya. Jaime, Cersei, Dorne and the Iron Islands were good. I don't think George would've lost anything by splitting AFFC/ADWD chronologically rather than geographically.

@Hush: You might like Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains if you want something gritty.

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Old 03-07-2014, 03:49 AM   #942
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Finally finished A Storm of Swords, really want to start Feast soon, but i hear that it's very boring compared to the other books and that these last 2 books are full of filler
Feast is my favorite book behind Storm. Hell it may be my favorite period. I love Dorne and Jaime and King's Landing and Cersei's POV chapters. Feast is very much a Cersei story and the aftermath of the war. The land is ravaged. Factions are raiding and plundering the country. Cersei is seriously and hilarious losing her grip and winter is coming ever closer. Basically it's all going to hell in a handbasket for the Lannisters. The last third of Feast is some of the best of the series. And yeah it's missing characters, but that is irrelevant now that A Dance with Dragons is out. The only part of Feast that is a slog is Brienne's chapters. Gawd those chapters run in circles and drag.

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Old 03-07-2014, 08:52 AM   #943
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Do any of you believe the paste theory?

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Old 03-07-2014, 03:49 PM   #944
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Do any of you believe the paste theory?
The what?

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Old 03-07-2014, 04:33 PM   #945
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The what?
A Dance with Dragons spoilers

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This one focuses on the chapter where Leaf gives Bran the weirwood paste. Jojen was becoming increasingly despondent throughout the chapter. At one point Meera started crying. There wasn't really any explanation given for their behavior. So it's a theory that the children of the forest grounded them into the weirwood paste. When Bran gets the paste, he sees some red stuff in it and thinks to himself that it can't be blood.


I'm not sure if it's meant to be serious, or read as a big joke.

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Old 03-07-2014, 05:12 PM   #946
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A Dance with Dragons spoilers

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This one focuses on the chapter where Leaf gives Bran the weirwood paste. Jojen was becoming increasingly despondent throughout the chapter. At one point Meera started crying. There wasn't really any explanation given for their behavior. So it's a theory that the children of the forest grounded them into the weirwood paste. When Bran gets the paste, he sees some red stuff in it and thinks to himself that it can't be blood.


I'm not sure if it's meant to be serious, or read as a big joke.
O_o I really have no comment for that one. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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Old 03-08-2014, 03:22 PM   #947
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Feast is my favorite book behind Storm. Hell it may be my favorite period. I love Dorne and Jaime and King's Landing and Cersei's POV chapters. Feast is very much a Cersei story and the aftermath of the war. The land is ravaged. Factions are raiding and plundering the country. Cersei is seriously and hilarious losing her grip and winter is coming ever closer. Basically it's all going to hell in a handbasket for the Lannisters. The last third of Feast is some of the best of the series. And yeah it's missing characters, but that is irrelevant now that A Dance with Dragons is out. The only part of Feast that is a slog is Brienne's chapters. Gawd those chapters run in circles and drag.
That's interesting. I enjoyed the Cersei chapters at first, but by the middle of the book, I was incredibly bored with them. They were just very repetitious. They more or less could have been summed up to: Cersei is paranoid of everyone. Now, some interesting things happened with her at the very end, but that was about it.

And of course, it was very frustrating to have to go through an entire book with no Tyrion chapters, or Jon, or Danny. (Though I was started to get annoyed with Danny in Bk 3, I primarily enjoyed her chapters because I love Ser Barristan.)

I mean, the book is not horrible by any means, but I definitely felt it was the weakest. The biggest qualms I had with GRRM in books 4 and 5 were that some of the characters weren't needed at all. Quentyn Martell for example. That character really didn't need to be included. And some other characers, while interesting, still have me questioning why they're there, and why GRRM felt the need to introduce so many new people instead of furthering the main plot.

I think that is the overall complaint of books 4 and 5. So much happened with the overarching plot of the books in BK 3. Book 3 seemed to push us towards the start of the endgame for the overall plot of the entire story...however books 4 and 5 do little to really advance that path, and it's frustrating.

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Old 03-08-2014, 07:02 PM   #948
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire books

Well, looks like I'm joining the illustrious ranks of A Song of Ice and Fire fans. Just bought Game of Thrones. First time I'll ever be reading something while I know basically all the big plot points already.

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Old 03-08-2014, 07:39 PM   #949
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Well, looks like I'm joining the illustrious ranks of A Song of Ice and Fire fans. Just bought Game of Thrones. First time I'll ever be reading something while I know basically all the big plot points already.
Welcome and valar morghulis.

Anyone here read Glen Cook's Black Company series?

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Old 03-08-2014, 11:02 PM   #950
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Feast is my favorite book behind Storm. Hell it may be my favorite period. I love Dorne and Jaime and King's Landing and Cersei's POV chapters. Feast is very much a Cersei story and the aftermath of the war. The land is ravaged. Factions are raiding and plundering the country. Cersei is seriously and hilarious losing her grip and winter is coming ever closer. Basically it's all going to hell in a handbasket for the Lannisters. The last third of Feast is some of the best of the series. And yeah it's missing characters, but that is irrelevant now that A Dance with Dragons is out. The only part of Feast that is a slog is Brienne's chapters. Gawd those chapters run in circles and drag.
It's definitely not my favorite, but I often think back to it and realize it was better than I give it credit for. I remember when I started reading it, I couldn't care less about the Ironborn chapters. Now I'm more interested in them, since they're becoming a wild card in the war.

I hated Brienne's chapters. Fortunately the show can cut the pointless detour to the Whispers.

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