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Old 04-17-2017, 07:33 PM   #76
DarthSkywalker
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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There is a very, very ugly side of geekdom. You see it in things like gamergate or the sad/toxic puppies campaigns. The various "backlash" the new Star Wars gets.

I do wonder how much of it is just execution. I read a review about the new America comic, and that it was too much for even a self avowed SJW. Like I said, I don't stray too much out of the X-books, whose liberal bias is sort of baked into their dna.

It is also likely a side effect of them diversifying their talent pool. Which I don't think is a bad thing. And while the execution probably needs some work on a few of these new characters, I have seen too many accounts of people just being thrilled to be represented to be against the attempts.

And once again, I maintain that this is a very small part of the problem. Marvel is essentially running into another crash.
I was big into Thor until they decided to make it about someone who isn't Thor. That was a while ago now. It had nothing to do with Jane being a woman. It was because Jane wasn't Thor. I did the same with Batman when it wasn't Bruce anymore. I also stopped reading Flash when Wally disappeared all those years ago.

The amount of people who leave these books because of liberalism is super small. Probably smaller then those who leave because they are flat out sexist and/or racists. I read comics I like because I like the stories or even simply the characters. I have read a lot of bad Star Wars comics just because the are Star Wars after all.

Marvel is making bad decisions. Decisions around their pricing, their structure and their need to keep those we know as these characters from being those characters. In a way this reminds me of DC not so long ago, before they just reset it.

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:33 PM   #77
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

There are some real gems at Marvel. Ms Marvel, Thor, Vision, and The Champions are great.

And I'm really hoping Resurrexion is successful.

Civil War II and Inhumans vs X-men were recent blunders though.

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:47 PM   #78
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I am a liberal. The only Marvel books I read right now are Star Wars. And it isn't because there are minorities or liberalism. It is because none intrigue me, I hate the events, and they cost way too much.
Well, Aphra seems to be checking a lot of boxes...

I am glad I gave Flash Thompson and Robbie Reyes a chance as their characters. The Lee Pace set up was interesting, though I am not against Eddie getting the symbiote back.

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:01 PM   #79
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Well, Aphra seems to be checking a lot of boxes...

I am glad I gave Flash Thompson and Robbie Reyes a chance as their characters. The Lee Pace set up was interesting, though I am not against Eddie getting the symbiote back.
Aphra is my favorite book right now in comics. Gillen is killing it with Star Wars. Because of him, I have to pick up the Star Wars main title books for Screaming Citadel.

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:04 PM   #80
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Yup, just like in Vader Down.

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:08 PM   #81
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And their SW comics have been selling more than their superhero books.

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:10 PM   #82
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Yup, just like in Vader Down.
He was definitely the best part of Vader Down, but I really enjoyed the first 3 arcs of the main title book as well. The last ten issues have ranged from mediocre to horrible though imo. The Yoda arc nearly killed my interest. Damn you Gillen!!!!

Any specific Marvel books you'd recommend Sithborg?

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:27 PM   #83
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About the only book I would hands down recommend is IDW's TMNT. Sooo good.

Too early for me to recommend stuff. The X books is just starting their creative team revamp, though Blue was the best of the three. Ghost Rider is on hiatus again, likely until one of the creators returns, though the last arc wasn't good. I have been enjoying Venom.

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Old 04-17-2017, 08:31 PM   #84
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And their SW comics have been selling more than their superhero books.
Not a particularly great example, as one of them is a comic original character, who is a gay asian woman.

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:00 PM   #85
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Not a particularly great example, as one of them is a comic original character, who is a gay asian woman.
She might be bi. I am praying, for my Luke's sake.

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:05 PM   #86
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Yeah, considering the turn out, I think most would disagree.


By running on horrible policies of the base of the Republican party. He out racist the racist. He out sexist the sexist. He was just more up front with it all.
These I won't bother with because it's just you speaking hatred without dealing with the topic at hand. None of it is relevant to the topic of the thread.

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It would cut funding it needs, drastically reducing its reach. Why would you do that?
Because America is so far in debt and spends so extravagantly that we're heading toward a cliff if it isn't gotten under control. Cuts need made in a thousand different ways, none of which will be welcomed. Trump has to make the decision of what needs cut and what needs strengthened. Leaning Conservative, I agree with him that the military needs to be the strongest we can make it, but little programs that can be covered in other ways are not necessary for government spending. The debt and spending needs to be attacked in a lot of ways and one is "death by a thousand cuts" and it'll take a lot longer than Trump's 4-8 years to fix the mess Bush and Obama's made.

The Meals on Wheels program will only lose... what... like 3% or less of it's funding due to Trump (if I'm remembering that correctly)? I've listened to quite a few podcasts that's laid out the details of what they bring in and from where and what's required for it to survive. And while, yes, it would get tighter (just like a family that's gotta make cuts to survive difficult financial situations). They would survive and would just have to find it's own way to fund that 3%.

But again... this is conversation for the Trump threads. This isn't the place.

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What has he down for jobs and economy? The jobs reports are Obama's. God.
Yeah, they don't cover those on CNN or MSNBC

You can find it all online and the reasons why it's Trump (though I guess some could have something to do with Obama). Again, this isn't a topic for this thread so I won't get into it. Let's keep on topic.

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Trump represents conservative values right now. Which is why you brought him up in comparison to Obama.

Which is why when people complain about liberalism in Marvel comics, they start talking about the sex and race of characters.
Trump represents the United States of America whether liberals what to believe it or not. Not just conservatives. Heck, there are even conservatives who disagree with Trump's conservative practices and values, so he can't be the soul representation of conservatives.

That aside, I brought up Trump not being shown in comics like Obama was as an example of liberal/democrats being depicted positively and conservative/Republicans being depicted negatively or ignored entirely. The fact that the closest we've got is an analogy of Trump being depicted in a light far worse than he is and those who follow him as far worse as well. It's one sided.

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:20 PM   #87
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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I was big into Thor until they decided to make it about someone who isn't Thor. That was a while ago now. It had nothing to do with Jane being a woman. It was because Jane wasn't Thor. I did the same with Batman when it wasn't Bruce anymore. I also stopped reading Flash when Wally disappeared all those years ago.

The amount of people who leave these books because of liberalism is super small. Probably smaller then those who leave because they are flat out sexist and/or racists. I read comics I like because I like the stories or even simply the characters. I have read a lot of bad Star Wars comics just because the are Star Wars after all.

Marvel is making bad decisions. Decisions around their pricing, their structure and their need to keep those we know as these characters from being those characters. In a way this reminds me of DC not so long ago, before they just reset it.
I think when it's all said and done, your main problem is that you're putting your opinion of the topic and projecting it onto the entire comic fandom. Obviously many don't think the events are that bad (marvel themselves) and they believe that the number of people who drop the books due to events is very small. I tend to find that if YOU (used generally here) have no problem with an issue, you find it difficult to see why others would have an issue with it.

I agree that prices, events, etc. are likely bigger issues, but that doesn't mean the liberal bias is small enough to be ignored. With todays heated political environment, I don't really understand how you are so convinced that a signifigant number of people wouldn't drop or reduce their marvel buying list due to the lefitst approach to storytelling or the liberal and sometimes antagonistic Marvel writer Twitter accounts.

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:25 PM   #88
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Any specific Marvel books you'd recommend Sithborg?
The best Marvel book I've read recently (though it's since ended) is Vision. Sithborg also mentioned it. I have never cared about the character but kept hearing about how good it was. So I thought I'd give it a shot and WOW was it good. I'd recommend picking up the issues or TPBs.

And while I've stopped reading it due to the anti-Trump issue, Champions was really good. It's worth a read and sorta liberal in theme. Someone like you would probably really enjoy it

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:43 PM   #89
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I think when it's all said and done, your main problem is that you're putting your opinion of the topic and projecting it onto the entire comic fandom. Obviously many don't think the events are that bad (marvel themselves) and they believe that the number of people who drop the books due to events is very small. I tend to find that if YOU (used generally here) have no problem with an issue, you find it difficult to see why others would have an issue with it.

I agree that prices, events, etc. are likely bigger issues, but that doesn't mean the liberal bias is small enough to be ignored. With todays heated political environment, I don't really understand how you are so convinced that a signifigant number of people wouldn't drop or reduce their marvel buying list due to the lefitst approach to storytelling or the liberal and sometimes antagonistic Marvel writer Twitter accounts.
That is what you did when making this thread. Or perhaps a search for confirmation bias. You are taking what you say is 6 people here and are saying this is a big reason why Marvel sales are down.

Does this suggest that?

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-03.html

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Old 04-17-2017, 09:51 PM   #90
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The best Marvel book I've read recently (though it's since ended) is Vision. Sithborg also mentioned it. I have never cared about the character but kept hearing about how good it was. So I thought I'd give it a shot and WOW was it good. I'd recommend picking up the issues or TPBs.

And while I've stopped reading it due to the anti-Trump issue, Champions was really good. It's worth a read and sorta liberal in theme. Someone like you would probably really enjoy it
Wrong V character. I have heard great things about Vision, sure. Just haven't read it.

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Old 04-17-2017, 10:11 PM   #91
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All valid points. It isn't just one thing that's contributing, but I'd say the political angle and the handling of legacy characters has brought these issues to the forefront. It's a poorly managed operation and something needs to change very soon. The glut of titles would be resolved by a complete reboot and some fresh blood would help as well. And unabashed, heavy-handed & artless political pandering should take a back seat to good storytelling and not f-ing with beloved legacy characters that brought you to the dance.
Technically they did reboot the whole point of battle world to this new earth was that. now I agree with what Sithborg has been saying and I agree with others to a degree that alot poor mistakes were made but another reboot isn't good idea cause sorry DC does have reboot syndromeand it hurt movie franchise it'll hurt the comic industry too .

and BTW before this before reed made this new earth there was another reboot with the captain marvel genesis aka photon that asked on the cosmic entity to do it. so this technically second reboot as it is .


as far as the the whole thor thing has gon this has happened with him more then 15 time already where the was given to some esle for bit or it has rejected him and the reason's the hammer does at are for silly reason. and janes been sick and near death this is her second time from what I found out .

I do feel she should keep the hammer or have one made for herself and name to her self . there are other's that have taken over for thor had that happen. they got name to them selves

but thor should be around in another role while she does super heroin. but thor should ether take permanent role in ruling Asgard or doing what I think turning the agency hammer in the something decent . she does need a name to her self and sam need a name to him cause he's given his name to some one else a latino falcon.

so all sam Wilson has to do is take another name one related to both america but a name to his self. like the independence Eagle.




and I feel that way for a number of things . there is a way to fix thing's but thing's shouldn't go back to being absolutely the same deal.

it's just time some of the older heroes one's took slightly different roles that shouldn't mean should do any super heroin ether. but the Excess of book's and events needs cut down .

well if they have their own solo to them selves there alot that can be done. but some teams no alot of them shouldn't showing in multiple books .

the point is alot should ether have names to them selves or for crying out loud give them another title and rank other then "captain"

this was what I looking at for another patriotic names for heroes


http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Category:...tic_Characters

and started making new ones my self after seeing and finding that out. seriously if ther can be american general or major use it.

and they shouldn't all be on every team ether. that's a bad habit of putting wolverine or any version of him in more then two books .that needs to end and the same with certain others. one books enough. I don't mind guess staring or cameo's. but one in more then two books for an extended period is too much. when there are other characters that can be of use.



they also need to find way to get comic's to be wanted again and get into more outlets. making excess of book titles are killing them.


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Old 04-18-2017, 12:17 AM   #92
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The company needs a creative enema. I'm sure Ike Perlmutter is going to fire the hell out of everyone anyway.

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Old 04-18-2017, 01:12 AM   #93
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Technically they did reboot the whole point of battle world to this new earth was that. now I agree with what Sithborg has been saying and I agree with others to a degree that alot poor mistakes were made but another reboot isn't good idea cause sorry DC does have reboot syndromeand it hurt movie franchise it'll hurt the comic industry too .

and BTW before this before reed made this new earth there was another reboot with the captain marvel genesis aka photon that asked on the cosmic entity to do it. so this technically second reboot as it is .


as far as the the whole thor thing has gon this has happened with him more then 15 time already where the was given to some esle for bit or it has rejected him and the reason's the hammer does at are for silly reason. and janes been sick and near death this is her second time from what I found out .

I do feel she should keep the hammer or have one made for herself and name to her self . there are other's that have taken over for thor had that happen. they got name to them selves

but thor should be around in another role while she does super heroin. but thor should ether take permanent role in ruling Asgard or doing what I think turning the agency hammer in the something decent . she does need a name to her self and sam need a name to him cause he's given his name to some one else a latino falcon.

so all sam Wilson has to do is take another name one related to both america but a name to his self. like the independence Eagle.




and I feel that way for a number of things . there is a way to fix thing's but thing's shouldn't go back to being absolutely the same deal.

it's just time some of the older heroes one's took slightly different roles that shouldn't mean should do any super heroin ether. but the Excess of book's and events needs cut down .

well if they have their own solo to them selves there alot that can be done. but some teams no alot of them shouldn't showing in multiple books .

the point is alot should ether have names to them selves or for crying out loud give them another title and rank other then "captain"

this was what I looking at for another patriotic names for heroes


http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Category:...tic_Characters

and started making new ones my self after seeing and finding that out. seriously if ther can be american general or major use it.

and they shouldn't all be on every team ether. that's a bad habit of putting wolverine or any version of him in more then two books .that needs to end and the same with certain others. one books enough. I don't mind guess staring or cameo's. but one in more then two books for an extended period is too much. when there are other characters that can be of use.



they also need to find way to get comic's to be wanted again and get into more outlets. making excess of book titles are killing them.
Agree with a lot of this, but I still think the best solution is the hardest one to choose, but one that makes the most sense at this point. I'd start 100 % from scratch and let a beautiful Phoenix rise from the ashes....

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Old 04-18-2017, 01:26 AM   #94
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I really love Spidey/Deadpool . What a freaking blast that is.

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Old 04-18-2017, 05:15 AM   #95
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Wrong V character. I have heard great things about Vision, sure. Just haven't read it.
Ah, my bad. It was Mad Ones who mentioned it.

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Old 04-18-2017, 05:19 AM   #96
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That is what you did when making this thread. Or perhaps a search for confirmation bias. You are taking what you say is 6 people here and are saying this is a big reason why Marvel sales are down.
I've not said anything of the sort. I've said multiple times, directly in reply to you included, that it's just one part of the reason Marvel has problems. I even said that I was surprised we got that many.

[/quote]

I'm just saying they're having problems because others say they have been including Marvel (and blaming a lack of interest in Diversity). I don't actually pay attention to all that stuff. Though last I did pay attention Marvel seldom ever lost that many of the top 10 books.

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Old 04-18-2017, 06:40 AM   #97
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

The big events, constant relaunches and pricing of single issues are turning people off as much as any particular direction the books are taking.

I don't believe Marvel need a complete reboot. Marvel already has already had soft reboots with the Ultimate line and the recent Secret Wars event. Reboots sometimes only paper of the cracks and can make things even more confusing to any potential new readers in the long run.

I would take one long sliding time scale continuity over multiple continuities personally. Alternate realities and time travel are two of the most overused and confusing aspects to comic stories.

Marvel's problems are reversible. I think the problem is that the current Marvel head honchos may not be willing to accept certain things have not worked out and make the necessary changes to fix them.
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The company needs a creative enema. I'm sure Ike Perlmutter is going to fire the hell out of everyone anyway.
I don't believe Ike Perlmutter cares all that much about the comics besides the IP. The merchandise. licensing and TV side of Marvel which he still controls are probably hire up his priority list.

Axel Alonso is Marvel's editor in chief and thus most likely steering the comics direction.

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Old 04-18-2017, 08:19 AM   #98
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Although I am curious why it was okay for Bucky to replace Cap, but not Falcon.
You're assuming I was ok with that

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Old 04-18-2017, 10:12 AM   #99
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Marvel definetly could benefit from a complete reboot but there's not really a point without firing/re-hiring over half the creative staff. That'd be like watchning your drunk friend total a car and buying him a new car. Dudes drunk, the car was fine!

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Old 04-18-2017, 11:21 AM   #100
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I'm surprised that people are even interested in responding to such obviously slanted, narrow minded pap. Is there an equivalent in just about every political ideology? Yes. Anytime you have a large group of people, you are going to have narrow minded, bigoted, etc. individuals who don't "want" to open their eyes. They just want affirmation. When political ideology of the lowest order brings people together, you get xenophobic, misogynistic, religious bigots. Welcome to America!!

AND, blaming "The Media" by saying they are "lying" (which happens occasionally across the political spectrum; including Fox News) is a cop out. Citing the "misinformation" given is helpful. It helps identify the offenders. Using it as a blanket indictment is narrow minded and at best, well, stupid. At worst it's intentionally devious and used to poison the well against people who are doing a good job.

The conservatism of yesteryear; which meant that people should be allowed to pursue their dreams, religion, and personal life in general, has been hijacked by a bunch of religious hypocrites who want to push their personal beliefs on others and, for some reason, think the USA isn't supposed to be a secular society when it comes to matters of public policy. I have news for you all. Those people are dead "WRONG".

People will read or watch whatever if it's done well and reasonably priced. If it isn't, they won't.....it's VERY complicated.

EDIT: Maybe Marvel just has a bunch of crappy, liberal writers.

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