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Old 04-17-2017, 11:35 AM   #51
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

I understand why people want to focus on this one thing. But there are plenty of reasons why Marvel is hurting over DC.

The sheer glut of titles. Event overload. Double shipping. Marvel's ****** handling of TPB. The general shift to digital. Hell, even Marvel unlimited for those with patience.

Blaming Marvels issues purely on politics is merely a way to give the certain regressive segments of geekdom more power than they have. I mean a lot of the arguments boil down to "I was represented, but now I'm not anymore". If politics was such a deciding factor, Hollywood should've self destructed LONG ago. Seriously, one merely needs to look back at the 90's to see that Marvel's business practices may be killing themselves again.

I'm not saying what Marvel has done isn't an issue. Sudden legacy characters can not work out. But if you look at how things like Miles Morales, Ms. Marvel, and Silk have worked out, can you really blame them for encouraging it?

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Old 04-17-2017, 11:50 AM   #52
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I understand why people want to focus on this one thing. But there are plenty of reasons why Marvel is hurting over DC.

The sheer glut of titles. Event overload. Double shipping. Marvel's ****** handling of TPB. The general shift to digital. Hell, even Marvel unlimited for those with patience.

Blaming Marvels issues purely on politics is merely a way to give the certain regressive segments of geekdom more power than they have. I mean a lot of the arguments boil down to "I was represented, but now I'm not anymore". If politics was such a deciding factor, Hollywood should've self destructed LONG ago. Seriously, one merely needs to look back at the 90's to see that Marvel's business practices may be killing themselves again.


I'm not saying what Marvel has done isn't an issue. Sudden legacy characters can not work out. But if you look at how things like Miles Morales, Ms. Marvel, and Silk have worked out, can you really blame them for encouraging it?

All valid points. It isn't just one thing that's contributing, but I'd say the political angle and the handling of legacy characters has brought these issues to the forefront. It's a poorly managed operation and something needs to change very soon. The glut of titles would be resolved by a complete reboot and some fresh blood would help as well. And unabashed, heavy-handed & artless political pandering should take a back seat to good storytelling and not f-ing with beloved legacy characters that brought you to the dance.

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Old 04-17-2017, 01:14 PM   #53
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Gonna be interesting what MARVEL does here. If they do nothing people will ***** & if they bring focus back to the status quo people will still ***** & yet it sounds like the people that want diversity in comics are not supporting them that well & that is because they are the wrong crowd to cater to. So if MARVEL does go back to the status quo can the other side really complain when they did not support diversity when they had it ?


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Old 04-17-2017, 01:21 PM   #54
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It is important to point out where the sales are week. Single physical issues. The younger generation, which is pretty much who is clamoring for diversity, show up for digital, trades, and Unlimited. Much like books and music, comics need to evolve or die.

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Old 04-17-2017, 05:32 PM   #55
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And I thought the "SJWs" were the snowflakes.
Thanks for adding to the conversation.

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Old 04-17-2017, 05:38 PM   #56
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*looks at the title*

Nah.

Though I love this argument. What exactly has been positive about Trump's election that a comic book writer would write about? Those things would have to exist for that to happen, ya know. This is also of course imposing things on writers.
Asking the same question... what had Obama done when he got the Amazing Spider-Man treatment?

And Trump's done plenty, but one thing that comes to mind was that he was a person who ran against two established parties and pulled out the miraculous win. He's an example that the underdog can really achieve great things if they put the work into it. Surely there's somewhere in comics that can use that to encourage some disenfranchised character to reach for his dreams.

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Old 04-17-2017, 05:42 PM   #57
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

Who wants to read a Trump-inspired character who spreads alternative facts and bullies people?

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:00 PM   #58
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Who wants to read a Trump-inspired character who spreads alternative facts and bullies people?
The amount of lies and half truths in politics/media has far exceeded the point of it being just a Trump problem. And I never minded the "bullying" because it was always in response to other people treating him like crap or lying about the things he's said or done.

But all that aside... there were enough people who voted for him to make him president and are still very enthused by his Presidency. There's an audience out there even if you aren't a part of it.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:03 PM   #59
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

There might be an audience for pussy grabbing in comics but I'm glad I'm not it.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:04 PM   #60
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There might be an audience for pussy grabbing in comics but I'm glad I'm not it.
Wonderful. Anything else to add to the conversation or is this all the intellectual depth you're capable of?

I mean... you are aware that there are more conservative topics that can be discussed than Donald Trump, right?

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:07 PM   #61
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

You'd think that so many "conservative" people voting for someone bragging about sexually assaulting women would be enough reason for art and entertainment to promote progressive values.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:35 PM   #62
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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You'd think that so many "conservative" people voting for someone bragging about sexually assaulting women would be enough reason for art and entertainment to promote progressive values.
So the entirety of conservative values, beliefs, deeds, etc. should all be completely ignored or vilified because one man who has often bordered the line between liberal and conservative said something vial 12 years ago? That's a very shallow mentality. As I said before... there's more to conservatism than Donald Trump.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:36 PM   #63
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Asking the same question... what had Obama done when he got the Amazing Spider-Man treatment?

And Trump's done plenty, but one thing that comes to mind was that he was a person who ran against two established parties and pulled out the miraculous win. He's an example that the underdog can really achieve great things if they put the work into it. Surely there's somewhere in comics that can use that to encourage some disenfranchised character to reach for his dreams.
Became the first black President. It was kind of a big deal.

He didn't run against the Republicans. Also have you seen any of his policies? You think shutting down Meals on Wheels is inspiring? Destroying environment protection is inspiring? Dumping sewage into water is inspiring? The Wall and its cost is inspiring? Besty Devos is inspiring? Tax breaks for the rich are inspiring? Lying constantly is inspiring?

Trump is proof people will buy BS.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:36 PM   #64
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So the entirety of conservative values, beliefs, deeds, etc. should all be completely ignored or vilified because one man who has often bordered the line between liberal and conservative said something vial 12 years ago? That's a very shallow mentality. As I said before... there's more to conservatism than Donald Trump.
Nah, it isn't like he is defending Bill O'Reilly or anything. Not like he isn't buddies with Robert Ailes, who he also defended. Oh wait...

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:38 PM   #65
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

THat's right! The World Outside Your Window don't have no minorities in it! how dare them thar Hollywood types suggest otherwise!

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:40 PM   #66
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just signing up for the fun.
Same.


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Old 04-17-2017, 06:43 PM   #67
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So the entirety of conservative values, beliefs, deeds, etc. should all be completely ignored or vilified because one man who has often bordered the line between liberal and conservative said something vial 12 years ago? That's a very shallow mentality. As I said before... there's more to conservatism than Donald Trump.
This one man is the leader of America's conservative party, chosen by millions of people into a position of great importance based on what he has said and done. There's something wrong here, and god help anyone attempting to do something about it.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:45 PM   #68
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Became the first black President. It was kind of a big deal.
There being a black president was a big deal yes, but he hadn't personally done anything worth recognition at that point. He got elected and happened to be half black. Personally, I find Trump's outsider underdog victory far more impressive and deserving of recognition.

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He didn't run against the Republicans.
How do you think he got the nomination? He ran against a whole heck of a lot of Republicans and one despite them all fighting to remove him from the running. And for those who followed it closely, it was very obvious that it was Donald Trump against them all. Many even said that they all had to do whatever it took to keep Trump from getting the nod.

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Also have you seen any of his policies? You think shutting down Meals on Wheels is inspiring? Destroying environment protection is inspiring? Dumping sewage into water is inspiring? The Wall and its cost is inspiring? Besty Devos is inspiring? Tax breaks for the rich are inspiring? Lying constantly is inspiring?

Trump is proof people will buy BS.
If you believe all the media spin on all that, no, but most of it is just that. Negative, media spin. Meals on Wheels is an example of that. It wouldn't shut down at all, but the media and liberal talking pieces are doing everything they can to make their audience believe it would. Let's remember that he's also done a lot of good thus far regarding jobs and economy (unless you talk to liberal media mouth pieces who try their best to make everything look like a failure despite that not being true).


But all that is conversation for a Trump debate thread. We're talking conservative policies and such in Marvel comics and there's more to conservatism than Donald Trump.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:47 PM   #69
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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THat's right! The World Outside Your Window don't have no minorities in it! how dare them thar Hollywood types suggest otherwise!
Who has anything against minorities?

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:48 PM   #70
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

There's been a couple of you trying to turn this into a Donald Trump thread. It's not. As I've said two or three times and others seem to try to ignore it... there's more to Conservatism than Donald Trump. You don't like Trump? WONDERFUL! Open up the conversation to the rest of what we're talking about. It's fun.

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Old 04-17-2017, 06:55 PM   #71
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Default Re: Liberal Writers Killing Marvel Comics?

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Who has anything against minorities?
According to recent complaints leveled against Marvel, some of their own readers. Or is that just minorities who want to put on outlandish costumes and save the world?

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:09 PM   #72
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According to recent complaints leveled against Marvel, some of their own readers. Or is that just minorities who want to put on outlandish costumes and save the world?
I'm sure some have complained, but it seems the point of view of those in this thread has been more about replacing classic heroes with minority fill-ins. And that in promotion it's more about pandering to minorities than actually building the minorities as strong characters themselves.

Personally, I've stated that every character introduced could be a minority for all I care. I'd just like to see more Conservative issues dealt with to go along with the Liberal issues. Cover all sides instead of just one and vilifying or ignoring the other.

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:14 PM   #73
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There being a black president was a big deal yes, but he hadn't personally done anything worth recognition at that point. He got elected and happened to be half black. Personally, I find Trump's outsider underdog victory far more impressive and deserving of recognition.
Yeah, considering the turn out, I think most would disagree.

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How do you think he got the nomination? He ran against a whole heck of a lot of Republicans and one despite them all fighting to remove him from the running. And for those who followed it closely, it was very obvious that it was Donald Trump against them all. Many even said that they all had to do whatever it took to keep Trump from getting the nod.
By running on horrible policies of the base of the Republican party. He out racist the racist. He out sexist the sexist. He was just more up front with it all.

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If you believe all the media spin on all that, no, but most of it is just that. Negative, media spin. Meals on Wheels is an example of that. It wouldn't shut down at all, but the media and liberal talking pieces are doing everything they can to make their audience believe it would. Let's remember that he's also done a lot of good thus far regarding jobs and economy (unless you talk to liberal media mouth pieces who try their best to make everything look like a failure despite that not being true).
It would cut funding it needs, drastically reducing its reach. Why would you do that?

What has he down for jobs and economy? The jobs reports are Obama's. God.

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But all that is conversation for a Trump debate thread. We're talking conservative policies and such in Marvel comics and there's more to conservatism than Donald Trump.
Trump represents conservative values right now. Which is why you brought him up in comparison to Obama.

Which is why when people complain about liberalism in Marvel comics, they start talking about the sex and race of characters.

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:19 PM   #74
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Who has anything against minorities?
There is a very, very ugly side of geekdom. You see it in things like gamergate or the sad/toxic puppies campaigns. The various "backlash" the new Star Wars gets.

I do wonder how much of it is just execution. I read a review about the new America comic, and that it was too much for even a self avowed SJW. Like I said, I don't stray too much out of the X-books, whose liberal bias is sort of baked into their dna.

It is also likely a side effect of them diversifying their talent pool. Which I don't think is a bad thing. And while the execution probably needs some work on a few of these new characters, I have seen too many accounts of people just being thrilled to be represented to be against the attempts.

And once again, I maintain that this is a very small part of the problem. Marvel is essentially running into another crash.

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Old 04-17-2017, 07:20 PM   #75
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I am a liberal. The only Marvel books I read right now are Star Wars. And it isn't because there are minorities or liberalism. It is because none intrigue me, I hate the events, and they cost way too much.

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