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View Poll Results: Rate "Lian Yu"
10 15 57.69%
9 6 23.08%
8 4 15.38%
7 0 0%
6 0 0%
5 0 0%
4 0 0%
3 1 3.85%
2 0 0%
1 0 0%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-27-2017, 04:47 PM   #126
Jedi Arrow
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

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Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
During those 5 years, how long was Ollie actually on that island? With him getting off the island, hanging out in civilization, getting trained to be an assassin or whatever, and probably still remembering the feeling of a comfy bed pretty well, it ruins this scene from Season 1 for me.

The thing about Oliver's 5 years is, even off the island, he went through some serious crap. Like, sure, he probably had a comfortable bed while he was with Tatsu and Maseo. But do you think he slept comfortably while with the Bratva? Probably not. To me, the only misstep in the flashbacks (aside from his haircut–bad idea, because it led to the wig situation) was the beginning of S4, when he was for some reason trying his hand at vigilantism in Coast City. That was dumb. He shouldn't have been back in the States before his rescue. But other than that, I'm okay with Oliver being off the island for a few years. While he was with Tatsu and Maseo, he saw a little boy die, he learned to be a torturer, he was on the run from some powerful governmental figures, he fought the Triads, etc. And while he was in Russia, he went through some seriously terrible stuff, too. In the S4 flashbacks, he saw magic at work, had to kill someone he cared about, and just had an all-around messed-up experience (but S4's flashbacks are definitely my least favorite).

The truth of all this is, even though Oliver wasn't on the island the whole time, he rarely had a moment's rest for five years. He was almost constantly running, shooting, hiding, etc. So when he finally gets back home, all that doesn't leave him. He's not used to being in a safe place, even in civilization. Because all the civilization Oliver's seen in five years has been on the run from Shrieve or in the depths of the Bratva. So although his PTSD seen here doesn't seem quite right, it still makes sense. He just hasn't had time to process everything he's been through, and now that he is safe, he doesn't feel safe. The point of that scene, I think, is that Oliver can't get out of the mindset of the killer/monster he's become. That's his natural state now, not Oliver Queen. So it still makes sense. Should there have been some changes? Yeah, but it still makes sense when it's all in context.

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Old 05-27-2017, 04:52 PM   #127
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

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Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
He spent like 2 1/2 years on the island? He was still able to sex it up with girls, have a roof over his head. That was the big disappointment of the flashbacks. His hell wasn't as hellish as it should've been from what we saw in S1.

They should've had him being freak out about being put back on the island and he should've been alone on it to fend for himself for at least a couple of months.
It's actually kind of embarrassing that the writers didn't plan for this. They've literally been setting up for this and they couldn't do something as simple as have him grow a beard and his hair? They could have just let him return to the island and be there to fend for himself. This isn't season 1 Oliver at all but whatever. The ending to his time on the island wasn't clever at all.

And I really wish Roy would have come back. I miss Green Arrow and Arsenal together.

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Old 05-27-2017, 10:06 PM   #128
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

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Originally Posted by Jedi Arrow View Post
(aside from his haircut–bad idea, because it led to the wig situation)
The hair cut didn't even have to be that big a deal as they should have realized that due to the events of the flashbacks often happening in short spans of time out of sync with the present, the flashbacks were further back than 5 years and so the ending should have been Oliver missing the boat then them cutting to an appropriate amount of time later where he gets lucky and another boat comes by and he gets picked up after his hair and beard had grown back out to the appropriate length.

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Originally Posted by Jedi Arrow View Post
the beginning of S4, when he was for some reason trying his hand at vigilantism in Coast City.
I personally think this is one of the negative repercussions of the Suicide Squad ban where at the end of season 3 Waller was initially supposed to double cross Oliver and hold him in spite of him helping her out in China, folding him into her suicide squad at the time, or his forced services could serve as the genesis for the idea for the Suicide Squad. This would transfer into season 4 of him being her agent going on missions throughout the first half of the season that puts him on the trail of Shadowspire with him finding out that their base of operations is the island and then him going there happening in the mid-season finale. Then the Shadowspire Island flashbacks that felt really stretched out, boring and overextended all taking place in the back half of season 4 at a faster pace with no treading of water taking place.

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Old 05-28-2017, 04:51 AM   #129
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

The writers missed their own boat when it came to Ollie's hair.

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Old 05-30-2017, 12:28 PM   #130
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

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Originally Posted by famicommander View Post
The only minor disappointment from this episode for me is the fact that we didn't get a surprise appearance from Ragman or Arsenal.
I still put a few long shot chips on the mechanic of survival for the cliffhanger being "Ragman shows up, having restored his rags and learned of the danger." After all, he could trivially save them all from the island o bombs, its just a matter of knowing they are in danger, and showing up in time.

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Old 06-13-2017, 01:14 PM   #131
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

Man, what an episode! One of the best season finales. Certainly the best since at least S2, maybe better. I love how they contrasted Oliver's fight with Chase with his fight with Kovar. Especially since they did the same thing in S2 with his two fights with Slade and it seemed like a deliberate callback to that.

This episode only served to remind me how much I loved Manu as Slade. The Slade in this episode was perfect; no obsessing over Shado and all that stuff that made Manu so upset in his S3 appearance. No wonder he agreed to come back for this episode. I hope that he returns at least once more, for the S6 premiere, even if it's just to see him off on his search for Joe. But if they could set him in a recurring role, man, that'd be my wildest dream.

And wow, Chase was the perfect villain this season. Maybe he's Oliver's greatest foe ever just because he was the complete opposite of him. He knew Oliver so well and yet he was unable to see how trying to prove his point actually changed Oliver into the man that Oliver needed to be. Between that and Slade's little pep talk, I hope we see a much lighter Oliver in S6, or at least one no longer haunted by his past.

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Old 07-19-2017, 09:08 AM   #132
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

Finally caught up on this. Not much to say except that it was intense, dumb as usual, surprisingly emotional (that scene with Oli calling his mom just killed me), and really satisfying as a close to the 5 years.

Personally, I'm hoping that all those characters on the island are dead, and that the show kind of starts a new chapter. Will never happen though.

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Old 07-21-2017, 07:19 AM   #133
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Arrow View Post
The thing about Oliver's 5 years is, even off the island, he went through some serious crap. Like, sure, he probably had a comfortable bed while he was with Tatsu and Maseo. But do you think he slept comfortably while with the Bratva? Probably not. To me, the only misstep in the flashbacks (aside from his haircut–bad idea, because it led to the wig situation) was the beginning of S4, when he was for some reason trying his hand at vigilantism in Coast City. That was dumb. He shouldn't have been back in the States before his rescue. But other than that, I'm okay with Oliver being off the island for a few years. While he was with Tatsu and Maseo, he saw a little boy die, he learned to be a torturer, he was on the run from some powerful governmental figures, he fought the Triads, etc. And while he was in Russia, he went through some seriously terrible stuff, too. In the S4 flashbacks, he saw magic at work, had to kill someone he cared about, and just had an all-around messed-up experience (but S4's flashbacks are definitely my least favorite).

The truth of all this is, even though Oliver wasn't on the island the whole time, he rarely had a moment's rest for five years. He was almost constantly running, shooting, hiding, etc. So when he finally gets back home, all that doesn't leave him. He's not used to being in a safe place, even in civilization. Because all the civilization Oliver's seen in five years has been on the run from Shrieve or in the depths of the Bratva. So although his PTSD seen here doesn't seem quite right, it still makes sense. He just hasn't had time to process everything he's been through, and now that he is safe, he doesn't feel safe. The point of that scene, I think, is that Oliver can't get out of the mindset of the killer/monster he's become. That's his natural state now, not Oliver Queen. So it still makes sense. Should there have been some changes? Yeah, but it still makes sense when it's all in context.
There's a lot of truth here.
Had they set it up so that Oliver had an extended year or two on the island alone, that time would have actually been relatively chill and relaxing for Oliver, after all he'd been through.

Once you're forced to fight for your life and become a stone cold killer, simply surviving becomes pretty easy. So going right from that trauma to a safe space actually makes the mental state make more sense.

The only situation then, becomes how they framed the scene with the storm and parallels to the Queen's Gambit going down. But at that point, that's all we really knew about the character.

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Old 08-07-2017, 08:46 AM   #134
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Default Re: Arrow Season 5 Episode 23: "Lian Yu"

Just caught up with this, loved it for the most part. Deathstroke returning was great, as was Oliver proving Chase wrong, and Chase's last trick up his sleeve.

The fake wig and beard stuff for Oliver returning was awful though, and I agree with some others it ruins parts of Season 1. I didn't mind him not being on the island the whole time. But why not return there after he thought he killed Kovar, Kovar takes 6 months to recover and then goes after Oliver, by which time his hair and beard have grown out. This part was so frustrating as everything else about the episode and the flashbacks were well done.

Be interesting who survives for next season.

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