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Old 05-20-2018, 10:17 AM   #101
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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I like this better.


Needs more work in terms of Brainiac's intentions and where and how with Kara and Argo (perhaps she didn't escape?). But I like this idea.
Well, the best villains are those who believe in what they are doing. And I think, again, MOS would provide a very fitting rationale for what Brainiac is after.

You know how Jor-El talks about Krypton’s golden age of expansion and how the Krypton he knew had gradually declined? Or how Zod talks about Krypton having degenerate bloodlines that led Krypton to its state? Or how Jor-El tells Clark he can help Earth avoid Krypton’s mistakes?

Well what if Brainiac sees what he is doing — capturing and immortalizing civilizations — not as an aimless quest for knowledge but as a means of keeping civilizations from falling into decay? What if he believes he is actually immortalizing these worlds by taking the best of them and leaving the rest? Of course, tied into that could be a desire to resurrect his people or control all life in the universe or some other additional core goal, but I think at least as a primary goal, that could be interesting.

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Old 05-20-2018, 01:02 PM   #102
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Actually I was thinking he was "collecting" cities/worlds because he saw himself as a God, because they're under his control and grasp. And if he grabbed all of them, ever single world out there, he'd be the UNIVERSE.


Same thing with another idea I had: based on the Y2K/Endgame arc back in 2000, with the Brainiac Virus that affected technology, what if it affected everything and everyone, literally turning a planet into Brainiac. Thus the universe is Brainiac, goign back him/it being the God/Universe he wants/sees himself as.

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Old 05-20-2018, 05:21 PM   #103
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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BTW misslane38 which director would be in your ideal wishlist for Man of Steel 2?

Edit : And what kinda stories do you want to see?
Someone who has experience writing stories that appeal to children and have a mythical/fantastical element. Someone who is capable of romance or romantic comedy. I've been reading old Margot Kidder interviews recently -- ones where she comments on the DCEU and SR -- and it's clear to me that what she felt has been missing was romance and comedy, but the kind of comedy that she got to do. I want to see stories that have a Grant Morrison/Greg Pak quality, so a hybrid of All Star Superman, Morrison's New 52 Superman and the Men of Steel, and Greg Pak's Action Comics What Lies Beneath. Something like the Doctor Who 50th special, "The Day of the Doctor," but with less timey-whimey stuff. From everything I've seen and read from JA Bayona, he's the best fit for the job.

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I really liked Rogue Nation. McQuarrie has done some writing on a variety of different films such as The Tourist, Jack the Giant Slayer, The Wolverine and Edge of Tomorrow. I'm very willing to give him a shot depending on what his overall view of the character is. More so than some other directors.
I liked some of McQuarrie's films, too. I have no issues with him as a writer and director in general, but his body of work does not give me a whole lot of confidence in him as someone who has what it takes to tell a good Superman story. Whenever he has stepped away from the action/thriller genre, the results haven't been promising.

Superman, to me, is a character who should either exist in grounded political stories (Golden Age), fantastical sci-fi (Silver Age), and romantic comedy (Golden, Silver, Bronze, Iron Age, and circa today). McQuarrie is a fine writer and director. I just haven't seen any evidence he has what it takes to tackle Superman.

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Vaughn used to be my top pick for Supes (and I still like what he had to say about the character way back when)... until I heard McQuarrie was interested, lol. I enjoyed Kingsman 2 more than most I think, but there were definitely some choices there I had major issues with that soured me on him a little. Whereas on the directing front, McQuarrie has yet to let me down, and on the writing front he gave me Edge of Tomorrow so he has my devotion. He would be an absolute dream pick for me.
Edge of Tomorrow is great, but what about the film and McQuarrie's other films suggests that he would have a good vision and direction for the character and the franchise? What do you want to see in a Superman film that matches McQuarrie's strengths as a writer and director?

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Old 05-20-2018, 05:47 PM   #104
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McQuarrie has done some writing on CBM's such as X-Men and the Wolverine so he's not completely foreign to the genre. He's worked in sci-fi with Edge of Tomorrow. He's written fantasy with Jack the Giant. I thought his handling of female characters with Elsa from MI5 and Rita in Edge were solid particularly considering the genre. I especially liked the pacing in Rogue Nation. I never felt the action became overwhelming and I liked Ethan and Elsa's relationship. Makes me think he could balance the Lois and Clark stuff with the Superman spectacle.


There's always a risk of being a prisoner of the moment. You hear a name associated with MOS 2 and can jump at it. But I think he can work. There are other directors that are thrown around that I think work much less.

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Old 05-20-2018, 06:02 PM   #105
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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McQuarrie has done some writing on CBM's such as X-Men and the Wolverine so he's not completely foreign to the genre. He's worked in sci-fi with Edge of Tomorrow. He's written fantasy with Jack the Giant. I thought his handling of female characters with Elsa from MI5 and Rita in Edge were solid particularly considering the genre. I especially liked the pacing in Rogue Nation. I never felt the action became overwhelming and I liked Ethan and Elsa's relationship. Makes me think he could balance the Lois and Clark stuff with the Superman spectacle.
I appreciate your insight. While I've seen some of these films, I haven't seen them all, so it's helpful to learn. I can't say that what you're saying sounds like a ringing endorsement, however. Being familiar with a genre isn't saying much. Superman and Wolverine are both in the genre, but they are both very different characters. His work on Wolverine and on Jack the Giant weren't exactly acclaimed, and his female characters seem to fall into the "Strong Female Character" variety of gun-toting badass chick. I feel like Lois Lane requires a different touch.

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Old 05-20-2018, 06:09 PM   #106
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

It can be tricky. Looking at Donner's resume and Snyder's would not have been a future indicator in working on Superman.

J.A. Bayona handled warmth, tenderness, and fantasy in a Monster Calls. I'd liked to see how he handles action and pacing with a big franchise in Jurassic World. Plus, Bayona isn't a writer so I would liked to see what screenwriter he would be paired up with.


As for McQuarrie, some of the works I mentioned were not acclaimed but I mentioned them because they showed versatility rather than bring up the Usual Suspects. Doing some writing on X-Men and Wolverine doesn't necessarily mean he'll be comfortable writing Superman. Just look at Goyer. But it shows he's not unwilling to handle the particular genre.


I appreciate your appreciation of my feedback and I appreciate yours.

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Old 05-20-2018, 06:54 PM   #107
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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Superman, to me, is a character who should either exist in grounded political stories (Golden Age), fantastical sci-fi (Silver Age), and romantic comedy (Golden, Silver, Bronze, Iron Age, and circa today).
I would much prefer the bolded.

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Old 05-20-2018, 07:05 PM   #108
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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Edge of Tomorrow is great, but what about the film and McQuarrie's other films suggests that he would have a good vision and direction for the character and the franchise? What do you want to see in a Superman film that matches McQuarrie's strengths as a writer and director?
For me, it's his interest in character that sets him apart. From the Usual Suspects onward (and I'm only referring to the projects that were his babies, not the stuff he was just brought in as a script doctor on, like, say, The Mummy), he shows a distinct interest and ability to get inside his characters' heads and see what makes them tick. It makes even his more plot-driven screenplays like Edge of Tomorrow still feel somewhat like character studies, and I've always dug that about him.

When he came aboard the Mission: Impossible franchise, he took a character like Ethan Hunt - who could be described as the "Superman" of the franchise spy world for all that he gets accused of being a Gary Stu, boy scout or a cipher - and in the 5th installment of a well-established franchise, got into Ethan's head for arguably the first time since first film and examined his quirks and his very nature as both a spy and a friend and just what makes Ethan Hunt who he is. The 3rd movie tried to humanize him as well, but in a much more trite way (imo) by giving him a wife and making him fight for love or whatever, but with Rogue Nation, McQuarrie went back and examined Ethan's behavior throughout the franchise and built a character profile out of it, and asked the questions about who this guy is that were frankly overdue to be explored - is he really just a reckless gambler with people's lives? Is he capable of actual personal relationships? Does he even know the difference between that and a professional one? And he didn't just present these as questions for the audience to ask, he forced Ethan to ask them of himself as well. It wasn't even just the big stuff, either: You can tell McQuarrie went back and studied all the little details throughout all the films, and brought cool stuff back to the surface that had gone by the wayside - like Ethan's near-photographic memory, for example. A genuine interest in the character on the filmmaker's part shone through in the film, and by the end of it, I feel like we came out with a much better grasp on who this guy is than we'd had in over a decade.

On top of that, as someone who's very invested in getting strong female leads in my action blockbusters, his writing of Rita Vrataski and Ilsa Faust turned characters that, in most other male writers' hands would've been extremely generic "badass fighter chicks," into living, breathing human beings who ended up being the highlights of their respective films, imo. So I feel like Lois would be in good hands with him.

I just think his films have a ton of heart because his characters feel like multi-dimensional people, which I know sounds basic, but I find it extremely rare for a writer in the blockbuster arena to be so consistent about this. On top of that, I like his tonal balance. His scripts are full of wit and humor, but never go overboard with it, he sells gravitas just as well when he needs to, and his blockbusters always have an optimistic undercurrent that I think would suit Superman wonderfully, without going too saccharine with it (like I fear anyone trying to recapture Donner would do).

Plus he directs action like a boss.

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Old 05-20-2018, 07:12 PM   #109
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Supergirl for MOS2

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Old 05-20-2018, 07:26 PM   #110
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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Supergirl for MOS2
Superman needs another movie where he’s the only hero.
The focus needs to be on him.

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:28 PM   #111
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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For me, it's his interest in character that sets him apart. From the Usual Suspects onward (and I'm only referring to the projects that were his babies, not the stuff he was just brought in as a script doctor on, like, say, The Mummy), he shows a distinct interest and ability to get inside his characters' heads and see what makes them tick. It makes even his more plot-driven screenplays like Edge of Tomorrow still feel somewhat like character studies, and I've always dug that about him.

When he came aboard the Mission: Impossible franchise, he took a character like Ethan Hunt - who could be described as the "Superman" of the franchise spy world for all that he gets accused of being a Gary Stu, boy scout or a cipher - and in the 5th installment of a well-established franchise, got into Ethan's head for arguably the first time since first film and examined his quirks and his very nature as both a spy and a friend and just what makes Ethan Hunt who he is. The 3rd movie tried to humanize him as well, but in a much more trite way (imo) by giving him a wife and making him fight for love or whatever, but with Rogue Nation, McQuarrie went back and examined Ethan's behavior throughout the franchise and built a character profile out of it, and asked the questions about who this guy is that were frankly overdue to be explored - is he really just a reckless gambler with people's lives? Is he capable of actual personal relationships? Does he even know the difference between that and a professional one? And he didn't just present these as questions for the audience to ask, he forced Ethan to ask them of himself as well. It wasn't even just the big stuff, either: You can tell McQuarrie went back and studied all the little details throughout all the films, and brought cool stuff back to the surface that had gone by the wayside - like Ethan's near-photographic memory, for example. A genuine interest in the character on the filmmaker's part shone through in the film, and by the end of it, I feel like we came out with a much better grasp on who this guy is than we'd had in over a decade.

On top of that, as someone who's very invested in getting strong female leads in my action blockbusters, his writing of Rita Vrataski and Ilsa Faust turned characters that, in most other male writers' hands would've been extremely generic "badass fighter chicks," into living, breathing human beings who ended up being the highlights of their respective films, imo. So I feel like Lois would be in good hands with him.

I just think his films have a ton of heart because his characters feel like multi-dimensional people, which I know sounds basic, but I find it extremely rare for a writer in the blockbuster arena to be so consistent about this. On top of that, I like his tonal balance. His scripts are full of wit and humor, but never go overboard with it, he sells gravitas just as well when he needs to, and his blockbusters always have an optimistic undercurrent that I think would suit Superman wonderfully, without going too saccharine with it (like I fear anyone trying to recapture Donner would do).

Plus he directs action like a boss.
Wow, hats off to this man. You've spoken eloquently about how McQuarrie tackled Ethan Hunt as a character.

I just rewatched Rogue nation yesterday, hence, everything you said just hit me like a Tornado. However, I think the characterisation of Ethan Hunt has been pretty consistent over 5 installment. It is only this time that all those characteristics become more pronounced and focused but in a very nuanced way that if you are not an avid film watcher you will just miss it and assume Ethan Hunt is just Ethan Hunt.

With all that said, if McQuarrie can take this existing Superman and build him up the way he puts a perfect spin on Ethan Hunt, it would be great.

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:38 PM   #112
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

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I just think his films have a ton of heart because his characters feel like multi-dimensional people, which I know sounds basic, but I find it extremely rare for a writer in the blockbuster arena to be so consistent about this. On top of that, I like his tonal balance. His scripts are full of wit and humor, but never go overboard with it, he sells gravitas just as well when he needs to, and his blockbusters always have an optimistic undercurrent that I think would suit Superman wonderfully, without going too saccharine with it (like I fear anyone trying to recapture Donner would do).

Plus he directs action like a boss.
Well said! McQuarrie can crank out a good script and be in production fairly quickly within WB's parameters, provided that he's given creative freedom to do so. He enjoyed the freedom he got on the last two MI films because Cruise had the pull to let him do his own thing.

I have a feeling that if McQuarrie does a DC film, it will likely be this film or GLC (with Cruise starring as Hal).

I wouldn't say no to JA Bayona or other qualified candidates either.

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:45 PM   #113
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McQuarrie being able to develop characters, etc. isn't in question. Can he make a movie that appeals to children and the inner child that is imaginative and inspiring? What qualifies him to make such a film?

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:51 PM   #114
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I mean Edge of Tomorrow's sense of imaginative whimsy certainly captured my inner-child, as do the M:I movies as of late, but to each their own.

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Old 05-20-2018, 09:57 PM   #115
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He makes PG13 action flicks with a decent amount of depth. I'm sure he'll manage if he does decide to.

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Old 05-20-2018, 10:06 PM   #116
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I mean Edge of Tomorrow's sense of imaginative whimsy certainly captured my inner-child, as do the M:I movies as of late, but to each their own.
I enjoyed the film, but not because it had that effect on me. I respect that you got that out of it, though, and don't discount that other adults might have too. I guess I'm struggling with seeing these films through the eyes of the child or family audience. I don't know any child who likes McQuarrie's films. I want to be able to imagine a film like Star Wars where audiences come out wanting to do the moves of the characters or play with toys.

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He makes PG13 action flicks with a decent amount of depth. I'm sure he'll manage if he does decide to.
I don't want someone who could just manage. Superman isn't just any action flick. Clearly with all of the difficulty in crafting a good Superman movie for decades it requires a very special recipe with the right kind of spirit.

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Old 05-20-2018, 10:17 PM   #117
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I enjoyed the film, but not because it had that effect on me. I respect that you got that out of it, though, and don't discount that other adults might have too. I guess I'm struggling with seeing these films through the eyes of the child or family audience. I don't know any child who likes McQuarrie's films. I want to be able to imagine a film like Star Wars where audiences come out wanting to do the moves of the characters or play with toys.
Well he has yet to make a children's film, but I've seen no reason to think he couldn't. He has excelled at a wide variety of things throughout the years. And kids do enjoy the M:I films. Especially the last couple. There are usually kids in my opening weekend screenings that seem to be having a good time, and my little cousin loves 'em. McQuarrie's been adding family-friendly levity, humor, and a general sense of fun to the franchise since Ghost Protocol, so I have no doubt he can appeal to the kids if he tries.

The most important thing to me is that Supes gets a filmmaker who's gonna dig into the character and find what's always been there that hasn't been coming through in recent efforts, and I think there's no one better to do this than McQ, for the reasons I previously stated.

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Old 05-20-2018, 10:53 PM   #118
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LOL getting into Superman's head and trying to ask deep questions is why people hate MoS and BvS.

Frankly Superman needs a hallmark movie writer to achieve what people on this site really want from a Superman movie

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Old 05-20-2018, 10:55 PM   #119
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LOL getting into Superman's head and trying to ask deep questions is why people hate MoS and BvS.

Frankly Superman needs a hallmark movie writer to achieve what people on this site really want from a Superman movie
anthology movie!

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Old 05-20-2018, 11:21 PM   #120
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Superman needs another movie where he’s the only hero.
The focus needs to be on him.
I agree. I wanted Supergirl for MOS2 with the assumption BVS and JL would be two films that delivered on two well-received Superman arcs. BVS had an arc, but it wasn't well-received, and JL had nothing. The Resurrection of Superman gave him no development. You didn't even have the public's reaction to his return.

MOS2 now can be a great standalone away from DCEU continuity, but I think a lot of it could still benefit from BVS arc.

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Old 05-20-2018, 11:30 PM   #121
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anthology movie!
pretty much. People don't go to superhero movies to think, they go to feel.

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Old 05-21-2018, 07:45 AM   #122
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I always want a movie to make me think. Superhero or otherwise.

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Old 05-21-2018, 03:54 PM   #123
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Well he has yet to make a children's film, but I've seen no reason to think he couldn't. He has excelled at a wide variety of things throughout the years. And kids do enjoy the M:I films. Especially the last couple. There are usually kids in my opening weekend screenings that seem to be having a good time, and my little cousin loves 'em. McQuarrie's been adding family-friendly levity, humor, and a general sense of fun to the franchise since Ghost Protocol, so I have no doubt he can appeal to the kids if he tries.
I guess I'm in a weird position. I've been mostly pleased with the DCEU Superman films so far, but I've heard enough from other people about how they haven't been similarly pleased and why. I'm not one to need the same thing all the time, so since I've been satisfied with one type of take, I'm cool with a new type and was expecting others who haven't been satisfied much at all to be even more ready for that. Additionally, given the tenuous position this universe and this Superman are in, I thought it would be wiser to pick someone who was more of a sure thing in terms of being reliably able to deliver on the specific things people want out of this franchise.

I look at McQuarrie and either he has had mixed critical and commercial success with films that aren't of the Mission Impossible or Edge of Tomorrow variety, or his films have a significant mature demographic appeal. One report said Edge of Tomorrow's demographics were 61% male, 11% under-18, 27% under 25, and 73% over 25 years old. Another report, this time for Rogue Nation indicates that "More than 80 percent of ticket buyers were over the age of 25." Finally, a report from the AARP pointed out the following:

The 50-plus moviegoer has helped establish an emerging genre referred to as “mature thrillers.” This new category includes action-driven films starring veteran male actors. The study found that 51-percent of the moviegoers who saw Jack Reacher: Never Go Back, Taken 3, The November Man and A Walk Amongst The Tombstones, were over age 50 compared with 32-percent for the total American cinema audience. [...] Surprisingly, the 50-plus demographic is a significant contributor to the overall success of blockbuster movies, such as Star Wars: The Force Awakens in which 50-plus viewers made up 27-percent of the total audience.

To me, what is needed isn't an filmmaker who has a track record making films for adults that can appeal to some kids, but a filmmaker with a track record making family films or films for kids that can appeal to adults.

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The most important thing to me is that Supes gets a filmmaker who's gonna dig into the character and find what's always been there that hasn't been coming through in recent efforts, and I think there's no one better to do this than McQ, for the reasons I previously stated.
I want Superman to receive good characterization too, and I think a baseline requirement for any director is that they are able to dig into the characters. I just can't agree that McQuarrie is the ideal person to bring the best and most needed things out of this character and his world for the target audience.

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Old 05-21-2018, 03:56 PM   #124
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree there. He remains my dream pick, because ultimately I think he'd do right by my favorite fictional character (which, I'm one of those who feel hasn't been done in the movies in quite some time), and make a crowd-pleasing movie to boot. Those two factors are what it comes down to for me.

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Last edited by flickchick85; 05-21-2018 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:28 PM   #125
mclay18
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Default Re: Man of Steel 2 News and Speculation - Part 1

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom just premiered in Madrid, and the social media reactions have been rapturous, to say the least.

WB ought to have Bayona on their radar if McQuarrie declines. Bayona loves the character, and he did follow Geoff Johns on Twitter (who also followed him back). Then he posted a rave reaction to Ready Player One prior to the film's release.

I don't think there's a lack of quality directors who love the character and/or love working with Cavill.

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