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Old 01-16-2018, 10:13 PM   #651
jmc247
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

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Originally Posted by ludovica View Post
The first word balloon of Magneto (I think) in the picture you posted is essentially my argument and my gripe.
That isn't Magneto, its Cyclops pretending to be Erik the Red.

Polaris is a 50 years old character as of this year in the comics. While her character has been on a lot of super hero teams over the years from working for the U.S. government.



1993

To being the enforcer leading a mutant dictatorship. To being on the X-Men there is a commonality in her thinking and worldview. Moral restraint not so much a thing and a view that holding herself to a higher standard then who she is fighting such as she talks about above violent racists is not a thing. Holding yourself to a a higher standard in her eyes just gives them the advantage when at war and her goal is not to 'be a hero' its to accomplish objectives.

The writers of The Gifted did read up very well on Lorna in the comics and have fleshed out who she was and is from the comics this season and tried to replicate it. What she wants is typically positive, but if one reads her comics down to the last one she was in last year her methods to try to obtain positive outcomes involves actions that if you are looking for a moral center to them you are looking the wrong place.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


Its not been much different this season on The Gifted tossing saws at kids head to motivate them, having no issue with torture to protect the MU, killing cartel guards, SS officers that get in her way. They basically showed the end state of her thinking can cause escalation though interesting to watch.

As for the difference between say Esme's thinking and Lorna's thinking? The main separation that exists comes down more on selflessness vs selfishness. Lorna does in fact think of other people first and is trying to help other people. Mind you those other people are first and above all mutants, but she cares about human innocents too typically and does factor them into what she does even if the character will put the lives of the many above the lives of a few.


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Old 01-16-2018, 11:28 PM   #652
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

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The writers of The Gifted did read up very well on Lorna in the comics and have fleshed out who she was and is from the comics this season and tried to replicate it. What she wants is typically positive, but if one reads her comics down to the last one she was in last year her methods to try to obtain positive outcomes involves actions that if you are looking for a moral center to them you are looking the wrong place.
I'm not criticizing her characterization or the intent the writers gave her, just that to me they made her cross a line I think should have been left as a lingering potentiality and not become irrevocable reality.
I'd even say it would have made for better dramatic material.

But it's a matter of preferences, I didn't mean to say I have the right understanding of how to translate the character.
Even though I always saw her as on the brink of becoming her father's daughter but not fully committing.
I'd have preferred that and her PAD's characterization.

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Old 01-17-2018, 12:25 AM   #653
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I gave one episode a chance. The dialogue and acting sort of kills it for me. A lot of the acting just doesn't come off as real or natural. A lot of jokes and gags feel forced. I agree with DarthSkywalker that the writing is very thin.

I'm confused, are the X-Men dead or did they go into hiding? If they are in hiding, why? Do they have some sort of plan? Are they on an important mission somewhere else? Did they get tossed in a hellish prison? Are we even ever going to find out?

Just to give an example of the forced conflict, that exchange where Esme's like "Oh Blink was in the brotherhood (not really), didn't you know?" And John gets all huffy about it for all of five minutes, and five minutes later he's already forgiven Blink and they start snogging. It just feels like cheap, soap opera level conflict and drama.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm a bit disappointed Amy Acker and Stephen Moyer are stuck playing the struggling parents of the Strucker kids. I mean good for them for supporting and protecting their kids, but the story doesn't feel like it's about them and it feels like the story is struggling to keep them involved and make them major parts of the story and to make sure they have agency. The reason I'm disappointed is I think these characters are a waste of Amy Acker and Stephen Moyer's parents, especially Acker after doing some amazing action hero work in Person of Interest. And just FYI, some of the action scenes Acker's character was doing in Person of Interest, Root, were like cinematic quality. I felt that Moyer and Acker could've been given much more significant characters from the comics than the mere parents of Fenris.

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Old 01-17-2018, 01:45 AM   #654
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

They have no plan for the X-Men for this show whatsoever.

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Old 01-17-2018, 02:28 AM   #655
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They have no plan for the X-Men for this show whatsoever.
OK, then just say the X-Men are dead. They are dead and never coming back. The Mutant Underground is the last line of defense and the inheritors of Xavier's dream. They were the contingency plan or whatever. Or before the X-Men sacrificed themselves, they tapped them to be the next generation team to pick up where they left off.

Don't tell me they up and disappeared with vague stuff. Go all the way with the proverbial death. The X-Men are gone and never coming back. These guys aren't the X-Men, but they will fight for what's right.

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Old 01-17-2018, 03:32 AM   #656
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

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OK, then just say the X-Men are dead. They are dead and never coming back. The Mutant Underground is the last line of defense and the inheritors of Xavier's dream. They were the contingency plan or whatever. Or before the X-Men sacrificed themselves, they tapped them to be the next generation team to pick up where they left off.

Don't tell me they up and disappeared with vague stuff. Go all the way with the proverbial death. The X-Men are gone and never coming back. These guys aren't the X-Men, but they will fight for what's right.
That's perfectly reasonable but less sellable.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:07 AM   #657
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OK but when you set up a show with such a vague throwaway line of the "x-men are missing" or the "X-Men disappeared" then I automatically want to know where they are and what happened to them. So if they aren't going to explore that at all, then it's a waste of a setup.

If they truly have no plans to use the X-Men in this series, then go all the damn way with the gimmick. Don't be vague. The X-Men are dead in the ground. The X-Men aren't here to save you, but these people will. Like this team isn't the Varsity. They aren't the A-squad, but they will become the Varsity. No one becomes the Varsity or the Heisman trophy winner, or the heavyweight champion overnight. They have to work to get to that level.

Look, I don't love Supergirl, but at least they didn't strictly avoid the whole Clark Kent/Superman thing forever and they ultimately embraced it.

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Old 01-17-2018, 05:05 AM   #658
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I respect that some of you aren't fond of what The Gifted is doing.

Meanwhile, I f***ing love this show.

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Old 01-17-2018, 06:21 AM   #659
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

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OK but when you set up a show with such a vague throwaway line of the "x-men are missing" or the "X-Men disappeared" then I automatically want to know where they are and what happened to them. So if they aren't going to explore that at all, then it's a waste of a setup.

If they truly have no plans to use the X-Men in this series, then go all the damn way with the gimmick. Don't be vague. The X-Men are dead in the ground. The X-Men aren't here to save you, but these people will. Like this team isn't the Varsity. They aren't the A-squad, but they will become the Varsity. No one becomes the Varsity or the Heisman trophy winner, or the heavyweight champion overnight. They have to work to get to that level.

Look, I don't love Supergirl, but at least they didn't strictly avoid the whole Clark Kent/Superman thing forever and they ultimately embraced it.
They are tricking the audience that ths is somehow connected to the films but clearly its not. Expect more references in the second season.

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Old 01-17-2018, 06:37 AM   #660
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I get the feeling there is clear limits on what they can and can't say in the show. As in no using names of characters like Magneto, implications towards them seem ok and names of teams are ok.

The creators want it tied into the X-Men sandbox, but they made clear wouldn't be tied into what the movies are doing.

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Old 01-17-2018, 06:42 AM   #661
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

I don't see what harm would it make to name drop Magneto... You are already name dropping the X-Men, but you can't name drop Magneto. Uh okay.

IMO, they should have just made an entirely new show instead of being an adjunct of the X-Men films.

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Old 01-17-2018, 06:59 AM   #662
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I don't see what harm would it make to name drop Magneto... You are already name dropping the X-Men, but you can't name drop Magneto. Uh okay.

IMO, they should have just made an entirely new show instead of being an adjunct of the X-Men films.
They haven't been allowed to name drop any core x-characters in the show, vaguely refer to them yes, but no name dropping. Team names like the Brotherhood, X-Men, Purifiers, etc. seem to be ok as is general concepts.

We have no exact idea the limits/restrictions that were placed on the show when this was being set up mid last year, but its important to note any restrictions that were placed happened when things between Marvel and Fox were still just starting to thaw a bit. We only know what we have seen all season to date.

As far as Marvel execs are concerned I think the show was a way to help further negotiations with Fox. I think they expected and were hoping for a Sony like deal rather then a buy out which was spurred on by the Murdoch family dynastic crisis of two sons and one throne.

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Old 01-17-2018, 07:41 AM   #663
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I am speaking for myself. If they can'tname drop a X-Men character that are in the movies then don't bother name dropping theX-Men as well. It's a marketing ploy that has no pay off for people wanting to see the X-Men in the show.

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Old 01-17-2018, 09:45 AM   #664
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

I am fairly certain character restrictions were from Fox, not Marvel. It seems like they are trying not to be tied down to a certain continuity, whether First Class, Logan, DOFP, or Deadpool.

That said, Cyclops totally killed Jace's daughter.

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Old 01-17-2018, 03:11 PM   #665
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I get the feeling there is clear limits on what they can and can't say in the show. As in no using names of characters like Magneto, implications towards them seem ok and names of teams are ok.

The creators want it tied into the X-Men sandbox, but they made clear wouldn't be tied into what the movies are doing.
Why do they have to be tied into the movies at all? Just make this its own separate show or world where the X-Men also exist.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:29 PM   #666
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As I see it, with this being in its own timeline, it's easier just to treat this as its own self-contained show and not worry about the movies while watching it. However, treating it as its own story, the names "Magneto" and "Erik Lehnsherr" don't actually mean anything. If Esme had told her her dad went by Magneto, it wouldn't really change anything. If this were an original story entirely, I wouldn't be wondering when they were going to give Polaris' dad a name already. At the same time, there wouldn't be a meaningful difference between namedropping Cyclops and namedropping Magma, or an original character.

Now if they continue to explore who Polaris' biodad was next season and continue to not give him a name, it'll be weird, but I don't feel the need to criticize them for something they haven't done yet on the speculation that they'll do that thing.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:32 PM   #667
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

What can we expect from Season 2?
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In the wake of killing a senator and bringing down a plane in the events at the end of the season, and the destruction of the mutant underground headquarters, the mutant underground still have the same struggle to carry on, but it’s not like they can just go find another abandoned bank in a toxic waste site and take up residence and start up again the way they were. And so one thing I think you’ll see a lot more of in Season 2, which I really like because it’s more thematically resonant and it’s fun, is just seeing mutants in the world more. Mutants interacting with humans in everyday circumstances, rather than just mutants in a mutant headquarters interacting with mutants. And the mutant underground, under the pressure of what happens in the wake of Senator Montez dying, the mutant underground being in a position where it has to become less of a place, and more of a network. It was always a network, but maybe a much more underground, spread out kind of thing. That’s one thing.

On the other side, really getting a chance to introduce the beginnings of the Hellfire Club, as they’re trying to rebuild this organization. We’ve already seen a little bit of that, with Esme infiltrating Senator Montez’s campaign. How do they infiltrate the halls of power, and how do they manipulate events to their advantage? And so that’s another piece.

And then the third piece would definitely be Jace, who feels like everything has been taken from him by the mutants finding a new way to carry on their struggle, now that he’s no longer with the Sentinel Services. And of course the Sentinel Services hasn’t gone away. That’s another angle on that, although we don’t want the show to be an endless battle between the mutants and the Sentinel Services, so I don’t think they’ll be front and center in Season 2, but they’re certainly not gone.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:54 PM   #668
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

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As I see it, with this being in its own timeline, it's easier just to treat this as its own self-contained show and not worry about the movies while watching it. However, treating it as its own story, the names "Magneto" and "Erik Lehnsherr" don't actually mean anything. If Esme had told her her dad went by Magneto, it wouldn't really change anything. If this were an original story entirely, I wouldn't be wondering when they were going to give Polaris' dad a name already. At the same time, there wouldn't be a meaningful difference between namedropping Cyclops and namedropping Magma, or an original character.

Now if they continue to explore who Polaris' biodad was next season and continue to not give him a name, it'll be weird, but I don't feel the need to criticize them for something they haven't done yet on the speculation that they'll do that thing.
It's not about name dropping to me, so much as I want to know what happened to the X-Men and why they aren't around.

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Old 01-17-2018, 04:58 PM   #669
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Well, I don't take it as a given that we won't find that out. Early in the season, the X-Men and the Brotherhood were barely mentioned at all, but they've come up more recently. At the same time, The Hellfire Club went from being unmentioned to being pivotal to the story.

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Old 01-17-2018, 08:31 PM   #670
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Well, I don't take it as a given that we won't find that out. Early in the season, the X-Men and the Brotherhood were barely mentioned at all, but they've come up more recently. At the same time, The Hellfire Club went from being unmentioned to being pivotal to the story.
I'm not saying they have to show up, but at least concretely say what happened to them. Like if they are dead and gone and never coming back, have the heroes deal with that devastation. Our heroes are gone and not coming. In other words, they have to be the heroes those heroes they wanted to come and save them. They have to become those heroes to save themselves and their friends.

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Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #671
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Default Re: The Gifted General Discussion

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Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
As I see it, with this being in its own timeline, it's easier just to treat this as its own self-contained show and not worry about the movies while watching it. However, treating it as its own story, the names "Magneto" and "Erik Lehnsherr" don't actually mean anything. If Esme had told her her dad went by Magneto, it wouldn't really change anything. If this were an original story entirely, I wouldn't be wondering when they were going to give Polaris' dad a name already. At the same time, there wouldn't be a meaningful difference between namedropping Cyclops and namedropping Magma, or an original character.

Now if they continue to explore who Polaris' biodad was next season and continue to not give him a name, it'll be weird, but I don't feel the need to criticize them for something they haven't done yet on the speculation that they'll do that thing.
That's entirely correct but we as an audience are a bit OCDed...
Comic books fans gonna comic books fan.

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Old Yesterday, 04:31 AM   #672
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just finally caught up with this show and Legion and man their both great shows for very different reasons. Looking forward to season 2 of the Gifted and Legion. I’m also glad that their not connected to the X-Men film universe or together and that they’ll be able to tell their own stories and not have to worry about connecting to this or that.

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Old Yesterday, 05:21 PM   #673
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Just finished the finale. I agree with everyone saying that the writing is shoddy and that Amy Acker is being wasted here. It definitely feels like they are struggling already to find things for the parents to do. It's such a shame they didn't give Acker and Moyer better characters.

The acting overall isn't great too. In fact, most of the time it's cringy. The only actor I like is Skyler Samuels who's doing a good job with the Cuckoos.

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