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Old 04-09-2017, 09:35 PM   #51
Stan Lee
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Giving Stryker "Mystique eyes" was a last minute decision and they either didn't have time or the creative energy to change the story for Apocalypse.
No, X-23 happened and they changed their plans to give her an origin faithful to her comic counterpart. Kinberg kinda admitted that. Wolverine killing scientist at Weapon X is even directly referenced in Logan.


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Old 04-09-2017, 10:04 PM   #52
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Originally Posted by X-Maniac View Post
Having Mystique rescue Wolverine and no further explanation in the next movie is the same as having Xavier/Beast rescue Wolverine and then not having him at the mansion in the next movie.
Not really a good example considering First Class showed that Logan didn't want anything to do with them.

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All for a Hugh Jackman cameo and an excuse for Singer to do Weapon X again. Wasn't worth it.
Not true. Wolverine was originally going to play a bigger role in the movie like X-Maniac said. The plans just changed due to X-23.


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Old 04-10-2017, 08:09 AM   #53
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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No, X-23 happened and they changed their plans to give her an origin faithful to her comic counterpart. Kinberg kinda admitted that. Wolverine killing scientist at Weapon X is even directly referenced in Logan.
while Logan and apocalypse are defently connected through weapon x i always got impression reason wolverine only had cameo was after DOFP jackman only wanted to do logan and it took persurion to get jackman to even do cameo in
apocalypse.

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Old 04-10-2017, 08:26 AM   #54
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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No, X-23 happened and they changed their plans to give her an origin faithful to her comic counterpart. Kinberg kinda admitted that. Wolverine killing scientist at Weapon X is even directly referenced in Logan.
You mean how Essex Corp stole Logan's DNA to make Wolverine clones? Seeing Logan and Luara taking on Mr. Sinister and Essex Corp was my favorite part of Logan

Also I don't recall Logan killing any scientists in Apocalypse. I only remember him cutting down military.

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Old 04-10-2017, 08:36 AM   #55
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Not true. Wolverine was originally going to play a bigger role in the movie like X-Maniac said. The plans just changed due to X-23.
That doesn't disprove my statement. They wanted Wolverine in there somewhere. They didn't have him taking on a mentor role as originally discussed, which is a small mercy in my opinion, but it still stands that they shoe-horned their biggest star into the film. You only have to watch it to see that.

Seeding X-23 wasn't necessary. It's explained well enough in Logan.

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Old 04-10-2017, 09:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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You mean how Essex Corp stole Logan's DNA to make Wolverine clones? Seeing Logan and Luara taking on Mr. Sinister and Essex Corp was my favorite part of Logan

Also I don't recall Logan killing any scientists in Apocalypse. I only remember him cutting down military.
Alkali was said to be own by a larger company in the film.

He does kill a bunch of scientists in that scene as Mr. Sunday Movies pointed out. Go to 6:14.



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Old 04-10-2017, 09:43 AM   #57
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Alkali was said to be own by a larger company in the film.

He does kill a bunch of scientists in that scene as Mr. Sunday Movies pointed out. Go to 6:14.

if you go back and listen to apoclaypse commtary singer and kinberg never say sinister would be in logan.they said essex corp was to tease sinister and there is connection to weapon x stuff in apocalypse to logan.

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Old 04-10-2017, 12:38 PM   #58
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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Not really a good example considering First Class showed that Logan didn't want anything to do with them.



Not true. Wolverine was originally going to play a bigger role in the movie like X-Maniac said. The plans just changed due to X-23.
You think that the two movies that had two different Calibans talked to each other about plots?

Mangold with this quote would say otherwise:

“It’s a funny, messy story of how so often these things are not as coordinated as everyone thinks. I actually had written him into our movie, and they didn’t know [he was] in Apocalypse, and then they kind of wrote it in their movie, and they cast someone in their movie and I had not seen it and was working away on mine.”

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Old 04-10-2017, 01:29 PM   #59
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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You think that the two movies that had two different Calibans talked to each other about plots?

Mangold with this quote would say otherwise:

“It’s a funny, messy story of how so often these things are not as coordinated as everyone thinks. I actually had written him into our movie, and they didn’t know [he was] in Apocalypse, and then they kind of wrote it in their movie, and they cast someone in their movie and I had not seen it and was working away on mine.”
I don't think that, I know it.

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"I have discussed that with the studio," Singer reveals. "I actually initially pitched the X-Force and the female."
http://www.fandango.com/movie-news/f...f306a47d8110c2

Singer knew X-23 was going to be appearing before Logan started filming. Hard not to since she was a main character that was in the script from the beginning, unlike Caliban who was in later in the script.


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Old 05-08-2017, 12:40 PM   #60
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

At first I didn't mind but after rewatching every x-men film (minus spin offs right now), I'm sick of having to connect every dot or simply have theories for every new change in every new film. It could all simply be explained or referenced despite the years of gaps in between.

Everything prior to DOFP was clearly erased and reset in the ending of that film but they should put a little effort in showing how things become different now than just being like oh yeah Nightcrawler is in the new films, Angel is a rebellious cage fighter and Wolverine is Weapon X again despite Mystique pulling him out of the river in DOFP. Star Trek 2009 showed how and why new changes got made!

I love the X-Men movies as much as I love the comics but the continuity issues since X2 really frustrates me. Why can't Fox make X-Men their own cinematic universe with a clear connected continuity like the MCU even if dealing with two timelines now?

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Old 05-09-2017, 02:53 AM   #61
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

Caliban isnt the only character to have 2 characterizations. Angel, Sabretooth, Toad, Moira. Why all these disambiguations about Caliban

This is the same Caliban

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Old 06-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #62
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

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No, X-23 happened and they changed their plans to give her an origin faithful to her comic counterpart. Kinberg kinda admitted that. Wolverine killing scientist at Weapon X is even directly referenced in Logan.
Scratch that. It seems that they never changed much of their original plan. They always wanted Wolverine to get his adamantium but in a different way without Stryker.

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“We talk, maybe too much, in the movie about this notion of time travel, or time continuity, where the river of time keeps going in the same direction, but you can shift it a little bit. You can put a pebble in and see at least a splash. So at the end of this movie, we want to feel like the current is going in the same direction. Charles went off and started the X-Men, but the way he did it and the people who are part of the X-Men are not exactly the same.
Quote:
“I wanted Wolverine to end up with Stryker at the end of the film, but when we got down the line on that, it felt like such a downer ending, and there wasn’t any ripple in time. It was the same – the location where Stryker grabbed Logan was different, but Logan’s fate was very much the same. I felt like we hadn’t made enough of a ripple.

“So from there we thought about who else it could be. I was thinking of having other people on the boat – he could be fished out by Charles and Hank – but we set this thing up where Mystique is masquerading as a military character saving mutants from going into some sort of experimental programme in Saigon early on, so there’s a really nice symmetry there at the end.”
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/f...ets-explained/


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Old 06-24-2017, 01:51 PM   #63
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Default Re: Mystique gave Wolverine to Caliban like she did Nightcrawler

It's pretty simple really. Mystique saved Logan, as it was established that she does that sort of thing in this new timeline, thus it was a "ripple" in the timeline.

But as Beast explained earlier in that same movie, time is like a river that always flows in the same direction even if you create ripples. Yukio in The Wolverine also established a sense that time was in some ways immutable, as the future she saw was always inescapable.

The details may change but the broad strokes still play out the same. Wolverine still ends up at Weapon X and then becomes a cage fighter and then joins the X-men, and he still (Logan spoilers)
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
dies on his back, with blood everywhere, while holding his (metaphorical) heart in his hand.


I feel like that's one of the messages in Logan. They go through all this trouble to save mutantkind in DoFP, but then mutantkind is all but annihilated anyway in a different way. Yes, Xavier had an optimistic line about changing the future with enough ripples, but Beast is the scientist and we see that his statement is ultimately correct.

Edit: And if you think about it, Xavier's line about ripples probably wasn't meant to refer to Logan at all, it was probably meant to refer to Mystique. Her future changed quite drastically: in the original timeline she went down a dark path filled with violence towards humans, while in this new timeline she's instead devoted her life toward rescuing mutants in need (as illustrated at the end of DoFP and later in Apocalypse). So basically, Xavier and Beast were both right. The timeline does try to course correct itself, but it's only capable of doing so to a certain extent.


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