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Old 05-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #51
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Not to mention using alien tech in an Iron Man movie is completely in contrast of the theme of them and why they didn't want to use alien rings in the first place.
The theme was Tony's PTSD after an alien attack on NY. Alien tech isn't a contrast at all, really. It could've made the Mandarin all the more frightening for Tony. As for why not use the alien rings? Because Black didn't want to.

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Old 05-09-2013, 02:16 PM   #52
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
Kingsley.

Because his acting was substantially more thrilling. His voice, attitude, demeanor, stature. He was (for all we knew) killing hundreds of innocent people nonchalantly. For little to no reason.
So he looked and sounded cool, and he killed people. That's your argument as to why he would have been a better villain?

What was his motivation? ..."I hate 'murica."

What was his personality? ..."I'm gonna kill people cause I hate 'murica."

How was he threatening to Tony specifically? ..."I'm gonna have people kill you cause I hate you...and 'murica."

Typical fear-mongering terrorist...which is exactly what he was SUPPOSED to be, because he was manufactured that way by Killian!

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Where as we had Killian, boring looking fellow, screaming about being The Mandarin like a little child who isn't allowed to have dessert. BUT MOM! I AM THE MANDARIN!"
Dude...I mean, come on. Really?

So your argument against Killian as the villain is "Killian looks boring and he says that he's the Mandarin...in a whiny way."

That's such a lame and incoherent argument...I just...I don't even know how to counter that. It's just shallow and blatantly wrong. What am I supposed to even do with this?

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Plus I dont know where you're getting "cookie cutter terrorist" I've never seen a real life terrorist that spoke or dressed like that. My word.
You've never seen a bearded terrorist in a strange outfit (at least strange to westerners) having himself taped while spouting anti-American rhetoric and demands?

What world do you live in, because I imagine it must be a lot nicer and safer than the one I'm currently living in?

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Old 05-09-2013, 02:22 PM   #53
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

I'm a fan of the comics. I am a fan of the Mandarin as a character. I loved him in Iron Man 3.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Killian as the Mandarin was a great use of what was essentially a one page character, embodying the physical look of the Mandarin Kingsley was superb. Together they allowed for a modern representation of the comic that had more purpose than the Mandarin has had in recent years.


What did 'fans' and I use that term very loosely want to see? Tony Stark taken to Mandarin City and forced to make Titanomechs to house the ten rings which are actually spirits of alien warriors? Oh yeah sounds great...

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Old 05-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #54
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

I really am done arguing this. Killian fanboys are just as annoying as Mandarin ones.

And Mr. Dent, you are extremely rude and should get a probationary ban for constantly insulting people.

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:26 PM   #55
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

How did Marvel Studios get to the position they are now? By thinking outside of the box! Things like: an interconnected cinematic universe, massive team up film, characters and movies with completely differently themes and histories, unusual directorial choices, and putting the characters first.

Now...all of a sudden you DON'T want them to think outside the box? If Phase Two were exactly like Phase One then this whole brilliant concept would get old quickly. So how do you keep things fresh? By making the Phase Two films completely unique tonally, thematically, and stylistically from Phase One. That means bringing in new directors, doing unexpected things in your films, and giving each sequel a completely fresh and different spin.

For these reasons alone Iron Man 3 was sheer brilliance. Was it perfect? No, but it was really damn good; and unlike ANY other CBM I've ever seen.

Attention Fanboys: You are in the middle of the greatest period in CBM history, courtesy of Marvel Studios. Sit back and enjoy the ride! Oh and quit bit..ing!!!!!!!

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:40 PM   #56
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Originally Posted by Mr. Wooden Alligator View Post
"Fans" were expecting a villain on par with Ra's-Joker-Bane; this is what I myself expected from Kinglsey's acting in the trailers and TV spots. If Killian had been given anything as good as Kingsley's Mandarin, he'd be great: a parody of Nolanization and an intimidating enemy.
I know I shouldn't double post but I had to respond to this.

First off I'm not sure I'd put Ra's or Bane in Joker's league villain wise. I've seen BB and TDKR a few times now and I'm still not quite sure what Ra's and particularly Bane's plan were. The Joker's "plan" (pun intended) is very clear and all too perfect.

With that aside, if the goal was to parody the Nolanization of an enemy then how in the world could they have done it BETTER than in Iron Man 3???? They reveal the whole creepy terrorist guy thing to be a complete scam and ploy. That's parody at it's height!!!! Did you miss that?

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:58 PM   #57
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Exactly.
That's how a switch works.

Wonder if the people who complain that they were sold a bill of goods also complained that the marketing for TDKR promised them that Bane was the main villain, or that BB promised that Ken Watanabe would play R'as al-Ghul, or pretty much *any* M. Night Shyamalan preview promised one thing and delivered something entirely different....?

Nah, guess it just works against Kevin Feige and Shane Black, the "only" guys who've ever been guilty of this.
You beat me to it. My plan was to come in here like OMG HENRI DUCARD IS NOT RA'S AL GHUL!!! THEY RAPED RA'S!! RAPED I TELL YOU!!!! BATMAN BEGINS SUCKS!!!


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Old 05-09-2013, 04:00 PM   #58
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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I really am done arguing this. Killian fanboys are just as annoying as Mandarin ones.

And Mr. Dent, you are extremely rude and should get a probationary ban for constantly insulting people.
If I were constantly insulting people I would have gotten a ban already. Calls it how I see it though.

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Old 05-09-2013, 04:08 PM   #59
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Exactly.
That's how a switch works.

Wonder if the people who complain that they were sold a bill of goods also complained that the marketing for TDKR promised them that Bane was the main villain, or that BB promised that Ken Watanabe would play R'as al-Ghul, or pretty much *any* M. Night Shyamalan preview promised one thing and delivered something entirely different....?

Nah, guess it just works against Kevin Feige and Shane Black, the "only" guys who've ever been guilty of this.
The BB comparison really doesn't work. The BB trailers didn't advertise Ra's Al Ghul as the main villain or that the film was about him vs Ra's. It advertised it being about Bruce Wayne's journey into becoming Batman. Though I will note that it did show Ducard quite a bit in the trailers...who did indeed turn out to be the villain.

Anyway, Iron Man 3 is not a sign that Marvel Studios is turning into Fox or Sony. It may be a misstep to some people, but it's too early to judge it going downhill.

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Old 05-09-2013, 04:11 PM   #60
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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I keep hearing this argument from the people who didn't like the twist...over and over again.

What exactly was so interesting about the decoy Mandarin?!

He was a cookie-cutter terrorist draped in robes and wearing rings. He hijacked the airwaves and spouted some anti-American sentiments a few times...and that was it.

How was that going to make for a more interesting villain than Killian; a guy who resents Stark for numerous reasons, who lead a terrorist organization from the shadows and behind decoys while simultaneously running a super-science think tank all for the purpose of owning and controlling a war on terror...oh and he's got badass Extremis powers like breathing fire and can chop Iron Man suits in half.

So...who's the more interesting villain again?
Yeah that was quite awesome, as somebody that knew about the twist before watching the film i have to say i was quite ok with Killian being the new Mandarin, however i think the decoy would have been a more inetesting villain. What would have made him very interesting? Well, for starters we have a freakin terrorist, somebody with power and his oun army and followers, as well as weapons of mass destruction and the latest technology.

He was threatening, he made the American President piss himself and could easily make the world fall into an world war. He was the perfect oposition for a superhero, this time we had a big-scale in the Marvel Universe, as opposed to your big business/ genius turned evil who makes a wrong decision as we saw in Iron Man 1 and 2. He was also somebody that he would have followers that believed in his cause till the end and would probably put their lives on the line, you could even go with a social comentary by having much of his attacks related to American attacking his country or something like that.

There was just a lot of wasted potencial in there.

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How did Marvel Studios get to the position they are now? By thinking outside of the box! Things like: an interconnected cinematic universe, massive team up film, characters and movies with completely differently themes and histories, unusual directorial choices, and putting the characters first.

Now...all of a sudden you DON'T want them to think outside the box? If Phase Two were exactly like Phase One then this whole brilliant concept would get old quickly. So how do you keep things fresh? By making the Phase Two films completely unique tonally, thematically, and stylistically from Phase One. That means bringing in new directors, doing unexpected things in your films, and giving each sequel a completely fresh and different spin.

For these reasons alone Iron Man 3 was sheer brilliance. Was it perfect? No, but it was really damn good; and unlike ANY other CBM I've ever seen.

Attention Fanboys: You are in the middle of the greatest period in CBM history, courtesy of Marvel Studios. Sit back and enjoy the ride! Oh and quit bit..ing!!!!!!!
I agree with that, but Iron Man 3 didn't seem all that different from Phase I, in fact i think those films started to have a different vibe around Thor or Captain America,i'm more inclined for the later being the turning point. By the way? Just because we're in the greatest period in CBM history it doesn't mean we shouldn't complain.

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Old 05-09-2013, 05:16 PM   #61
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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I know I shouldn't double post but I had to respond to this.

First off I'm not sure I'd put Ra's or Bane in Joker's league villain wise. I've seen BB and TDKR a few times now and I'm still not quite sure what Ra's and particularly Bane's plan were. The Joker's "plan" (pun intended) is very clear and all too perfect.

With that aside, if the goal was to parody the Nolanization of an enemy then how in the world could they have done it BETTER than in Iron Man 3???? They reveal the whole creepy terrorist guy thing to be a complete scam and ploy. That's parody at it's height!!!! Did you miss that?
Ra's-Psychotic notions of playing Judge and Executioner. Joker-Nihilist. Bane-Ascension to a place denied him by Ra's.

That said, the parody was within the character of Killian. Daper, fairly-grounded looking dude turns out to be an Extremis-wielding supervillain. The terrorist being a scam and ploy wasn't parody, but it contributed to the comedic take on Nolanization (taking a flamboyant character--such as Ra's with his cloak and robe--and putting him in a suite ala BB).

That said, I'm fine with Kevin doing what he's doing, so long as he's better about advertising or giving the main villain more to work with. The ingenuity is proof Kevin isn't going to let his baby stagnate.

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Old 05-09-2013, 05:49 PM   #62
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Yeah that was quite awesome, as somebody that knew about the twist before watching the film i have to say i was quite ok with Killian being the new Mandarin, however i think the decoy would have been a more inetesting villain. What would have made him very interesting? Well, for starters we have a freakin terrorist, somebody with power and his oun army and followers, as well as weapons of mass destruction and the latest technology.

He was threatening, he made the American President piss himself and could easily make the world fall into an world war. He was the perfect oposition for a superhero, this time we had a big-scale in the Marvel Universe, as opposed to your big business/ genius turned evil who makes a wrong decision as we saw in Iron Man 1 and 2. He was also somebody that he would have followers that believed in his cause till the end and would probably put their lives on the line, you could even go with a social comentary by having much of his attacks related to American attacking his country or something like that.

There was just a lot of wasted potencial in there.


I agree with that, but Iron Man 3 didn't seem all that different from Phase I, in fact i think those films started to have a different vibe around Thor or Captain America,i'm more inclined for the later being the turning point. By the way? Just because we're in the greatest period in CBM history it doesn't mean we shouldn't complain.
What do you mean we should complain?? I never understood how people believe they are entitled to complain about something they didn't create. It's one thing to say "personally I didn't like the movie" it's another to say "this is how the movie should have been made because I thought it would of been better this way" honestly people need to get over theirselves I'm not trying to put anyone down but if you want something done your way Do It Yourself!

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:07 PM   #63
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

Every single studio makes changes. Robin in TDKR is just as bad of a representation as The Mandarin imo. What makes TDKR and IM3 different from the ****** Fox movies are that they were actually well made. They may be divisive in some form or another. But a majority of critics, audiences and fans enjoyed both films. They aint perfect, but they are insanely better then Elektra, FF,FF2 and XMOW. Those films got thrashed by just about everyone.
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Seriously? People are crying about The Mandarin?!?!
Yeah, I guess all of a sudden he's this main A list villain everyones always cared about haha. I understand the disappointment coming from the Iron Man comic fans, but theres all of a sudden a million new Mandarin fans all over the net.

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:11 PM   #64
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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The BB comparison really doesn't work. The BB trailers didn't advertise Ra's Al Ghul as the main villain or that the film was about him vs Ra's. It advertised it being about Bruce Wayne's journey into becoming Batman. Though I will note that it did show Ducard quite a bit in the trailers...who did indeed turn out to be the villain.

Anyway, Iron Man 3 is not a sign that Marvel Studios is turning into Fox or Sony. It may be a misstep to some people, but it's too early to judge it going downhill.
And IM3 trailers advertised Tony Stark's journey and evolution. Coincidentally, *he's* the title character and *he's* the flagship of Marvel Studios and *he's* the guy everybody in the audience came to see.

People going off the deep end over a secondary villain....it's like people going crazy over Ken Watanabe "destroying" R'as al-Ghul's character in BB. Same exact switch, and yet everybody understood the switch perfectly and said, "Yeah, that makes sense." Cut to eight years later, same switch, different movie, and now nobody seems to be able to get a handle on it.....???

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:20 PM   #65
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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What exactly are you defending? Making Aldrich Killian The Mandarin was arguably the biggest deviation they've taken from the comics thus far in the MCU.
deviations in Iron Man, so far...

Pepper and Stark are an item
Jarvis is an A.I.

Rhodey is actual career military instead of some ex-soldier turned personal pilot

Obadiah Stane works for Stark Industries instead of being a business rival

Stark isn't kidnapped in Asia

Justin Hammer's not an old british criminal financier with an island base
Whiplash is russian and his dad was instrumental in the development of RT

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:48 PM   #66
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But they didn't discount fans' opinions. I think most people who have been Iron Man fans for years (not just since his movies came out) and have read a good deal of his comics would tell you that the Mandarin as a concept is trash and outdated, and what Marvel did was a good way to bring the character to the MCU and make him a villain actually worthy of being relevant in an Iron Man film. Make it an ideal, not a person. Because the magical rings, Fu Man Chu ******** was never going to fly. Sure, they could have just kept him the way we were expecting, but that wouldn't really add much to the film itself nor make the character stand out from your regular comic book villain. They had the opportunity to do something unique with the Mandarin and took it.
What is this I dont even know. For some reason you keep saying Mandarin was a villian. He wasnt he was an actor. There was no unique situation. We are used to aliens, magic, and powerful weaponds because of Thor and The Avengers so bringing the real Mandarin would have been fine. They can keep all the fu chang ******** thats obv just stupid but leave his overall character with the rings and martial arts. But dont even come and tell me its okay to turn Iron mans main villian into a joke, into an annoying actor with some dumb annoying accent. Cause its just not. When I saw IM3 and the twist was revealed I was laughing at how stupod it was. My bro(no comic book fan at all) was laughing before me. Then your gonna say mandarin was a villian, he was killian. Well thats ********. If they at least they made killian a good villian maybe with some more background some people would be less mad but come on his character sucked. Oh boohoo I was an ugly scientist with great ideas an no one will listen to me and tony stark ditched me for this fine ass chick like anyone would so now i wanna destroy evryone. News flash, that girl tony got with came and worked with you real soon actually(possibly later that day) and your still bent on destroying everyone. Just real stupid.

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:53 PM   #67
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And IM3 trailers advertised Tony Stark's journey and evolution. Coincidentally, *he's* the title character and *he's* the flagship of Marvel Studios and *he's* the guy everybody in the audience came to see.

People going off the deep end over a secondary villain....it's like people going crazy over Ken Watanabe "destroying" R'as al-Ghul's character in BB. Same exact switch, and yet everybody understood the switch perfectly and said, "Yeah, that makes sense." Cut to eight years later, same switch, different movie, and now nobody seems to be able to get a handle on it.....???
R'as was still an actual villian. He could fight and beat ass. He was cool and played by the Liam Neeson. His character was intriuging and cool. His twist wasnt thats there was some dumb annoying actor. They turned the mandarin into an actual joke not a moderization or new take on the charcter like sone of you guys like to say but a joke. Its that simple. And dont give me the oh killian is mandarin, no hes not, hes just same lame as villian with a poor backstory.

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #68
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Every single studio makes changes. Robin in TDKR is just as bad of a representation as The Mandarin imo. What makes TDKR and IM3 different from the ****** Fox movies are that they were actually well made. They may be divisive in some form or another. But a majority of critics, audiences and fans enjoyed both films. They aint perfect, but they are insanely better then Elektra, FF,FF2 and XMOW. Those films got thrashed by just about everyone.

Yeah, I guess all of a sudden he's this main A list villain everyones always cared about haha. I understand the disappointment coming from the Iron Man comic fans, but theres all of a sudden a million new Mandarin fans all over the net.
People like you aren't getting it. Not everone is a huge fan of the madarin. What they did to his character was just dumb. And even regular people know this. My bro is no comic fan and when the twist is revealed after he was laughing at how stupid it was hes asking me is this for real. Is this what the mandarin really is cause this is some stupid as ****. And i agree, its actually pretty insulting. I dont get how people dont see that. That it was no moderization of a character, they litterally made him not a villian...but a dumb actor.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

I was laughing at the twist too. Because it was funny.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:06 PM   #70
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I was laughing at the twist too. Because it was funny.
I guess you have a pretty lame sense of humor then tbh. Cause that actor guy was completly unfunny. His accent was annoying and his jokes stale. Wanna have a beer? Seriiusly? This is one of the main reasons that the twist also got me really mad. Cause not only did they take his rings and make him some terroist. Oh wait nev mind hes not even a terroist, heck hes not even a villian! If they wanna make killian the main villian as a twist fine but why turn the mandarin into some unfunny actor, its just unnesessary. You can make him some dumb terroist that killian is manipulating and that is just way better cause at least hes still a villian. But no were gonna turn him into an actor...like come on now thats just silly.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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My bro is no comic fan and when the twist is revealed after he was laughing at how stupid it was hes asking me is this for real. Is this what the mandarin really is cause this is some stupid as ****. And i agree, its actually pretty insulting. I dont get how people dont see that.
Neither of you speak for the general public and IM3 got an A cinema score btw. That cinema score and the box office gives us an idea on how audiences are reacting and talking about the film. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but a majority of the audience are digging this film and laughing at the twist.

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That it was no moderization of a character, they litterally made him not a villian...but a dumb actor.
Actually he is a villain.Killian is The Mandarin in this film not Trevor the actor.


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Old 05-09-2013, 07:37 PM   #72
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I dont care about cinema score. Its always way better or lower than a movie should be. And you know thats true. Everyone knows that. If you think iron man 3 is an A movie actually than you are lost.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #73
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I dont care about cinema score. Its always way better than a movie should be. And you know thats true. Everyone knows that. If you think iron man 3 is an A movie actually than you are lost.
So you don't care about a high audience approval rating, critic approval rating, box office and the fact that a majority on this forum enjoy it?

You didn't like it, and that's fine. But stop thinking your opinion on a film that is overall liked is the final be all verdict. Your opinion means no more then the handful of people who disliked TDK and The Avengers or enjoyed X3 and the FF. People have different tastes regardless of how liked or hated a film is, nothing wrong with that.


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Old 05-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #74
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R'as was still an actual villian. He could fight and beat ass. He was cool and played by the Liam Neeson. His character was intriuging and cool. His twist wasnt thats there was some dumb annoying actor. They turned the mandarin into an actual joke not a moderization or new take on the charcter like sone of you guys like to say but a joke. Its that simple. And dont give me the oh killian is mandarin, no hes not, hes just same lame as villian with a poor backstory.
he, literally, called himself Mandarin. how are you not seeing this?

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #75
cherokeesam
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCU View Post
R'as was still an actual villian. He could fight and beat ass. He was cool and played by the Liam Neeson. His character was intriuging and cool. His twist wasnt thats there was some dumb annoying actor. They turned the mandarin into an actual joke not a moderization or new take on the charcter like sone of you guys like to say but a joke. Its that simple. And dont give me the oh killian is mandarin, no hes not, hes just same lame as villian with a poor backstory.
Yes, yes Killian is The Mandarin.
You just choose to see reality through a very distorted lens.

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