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Old 05-09-2013, 08:01 PM   #76
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Yes, yes Killian is The Mandarin.
You just choose to see reality through a very distorted lens.
Okay well if thats the mandarin then thats a poor interpretation of the charcter and a lame villian for the reasons I stated.

And just so I understand, the mandarin is supposed to be this guy that uses alien technology with rings and has really good martial arts skills....and this guy that breaths fire is supposed to be that character....okay yea and Im the one that sees reality through a distorted lens.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:04 PM   #77
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Okay well if thats the mandarin then thats a poor interpretation of the charcter and a lame villian for the reasons I stated.

And just so I understand, the mandarin is supposed to be this guy that uses alien technology with rings and has really good martial arts skills....and this guy that breaths fire is supposed to be that character....okay yea and Im the one that sees reality through a distorted lens.
Killian isn't a lame villain at all. In fact, I'd venture to say he's the best villain Iron Man has ever confronted.

Plus, he's got some really good martial arts skills, too.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:16 PM   #78
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

The Mandarin is a metaphor for rampant military spending. He was an aristocrat who bankrupted his fiefdom turning himself into a scientific and martial arts super-soldier.

Killian is an extremely corrupt member of the military-industrial-complex with a scheme to profit from an unneeded war on terror, and who is using the money from this in part to turn himself into a martial artsy supers-soldier.

The Mandarin represents both perfection obsession and the evils of the hypermasculine mindset. He wants to be this perfect scientist and perfect martial artist so he can abuse women after kicking their boyfriends asses.

Killian represents this as well, except he uses extremis rather than a combo of scientific and martial arts training. The end result is still the same: a genius, athlete, who can karate-chop Iron Man's armor to pieces.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:29 PM   #79
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Kingsley.

Because his acting was substantially more thrilling. His voice, attitude, demeanor, stature. He was (for all we knew) killing hundreds of innocent people nonchalantly. For little to no reason.

Where as we had Killian, boring looking fellow, screaming about being The Mandarin like a little child who isn't allowed to have dessert. BUT MOM! I AM THE MANDARIN!"

Plus I dont know where you're getting "cookie cutter terrorist" I've never seen a real life terrorist that spoke or dressed like that. My word.
Well then maybe you are just not a Mandarin fan, because the crude, athletic bull shouting about being the Mandarin while karate-chopping the crap out of stuff IS COMIC MANDARIN!!

Y'know who Kingsley was playing pre-reveal? Not the Mandarin, YELLOW CLAW! Kingsley was an awesome Yellow Claw, maybe even living proof that Yellow Claw is cooler than The Mandarin.

Now if you're a Yellow Claw fan, that's fine. But don't complain that Killian wasn't the Mandarin. Killian was the Mandarin in personality, in themes, in visuals, in every way except race.


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Old 05-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #80
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Killian isn't a lame villain at all. In fact, I'd venture to say he's the best villain Iron Man has ever confronted.

Plus, he's got some really good martial arts skills, too.
Lol he is lame. Loki is by far marvels best villian. Killian: "oh im a scientist and i wana kill everone cause I was ugly and no one listened to my many ideas and i hate tony stark cause he passed on me for rebecca hall". Btw hall gets with u like couple hours later so look someone wants to work with u but ur still a cry baby. Lame as villian. Poor backstory as to why hes a villian.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #81
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Lol he is lame. Loki is by far marvels best villian. Killian: "oh im a scientist and i wana kill everone cause I was ugly and no one listened to my many ideas and i hate tony stark cause he passed on me for rebecca hall". Btw hall gets with u like couple hours later so look someone wants to work with u but ur still a cry baby. Lame as villian. Poor backstory as to why hes a villian.
"oh, i'm adopted! and i wanna kill everyone who accepted me anyways."

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:52 PM   #82
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Well then maybe you are just not a Mandarin fan, because the crude, athletic bull shouting about being the Mandarin while karate-chopping the crap out of stuff IS COMIC MANDARIN!!

Y'know who Kingsley was playing pre-reveal? Not the Mandarin, YELLOW CLAW! Kingsley was an awesome Yellow Claw, maybe even living proof that Yellow Claw is cooler than The Mandarin.

Now if you're a Yellow Claw fan, that's fine. But don't complain that Killian wasn't the Mandarin. Killian was the Mandarin in personality, in themes, in visuals, in every way except race.
i wouldn't even call it Yellow Claw. he was more like Achebe (Black Panther rogue).
http://worldofblackheroes.files.word...04/achebe3.jpg

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:53 PM   #83
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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"oh, i'm adopted! and i wanna kill everyone who accepted me anyways."
True, said he was marvels best villian. Didnt say he was an amazing villian. Better than killian imo cause Hiddleston's acting is great. But im not gonna lie, Lokis backstory is pretty weak to; this his main problem.

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Old 05-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #84
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Okay well if thats the mandarin then thats a poor interpretation of the charcter and a lame villian for the reasons I stated.

And just so I understand, the mandarin is supposed to be this guy that uses alien technology with rings and has really good martial arts skills....and this guy that breaths fire is supposed to be that character....okay yea and Im the one that sees reality through a distorted lens.
the rings are just a weapon the Mandarin wields. he would not rely on them; especially not after spending so much time developing his own body into a weapon. the difference with Killian is that he used technology to perfect his body. it's not that big a difference. they are both individuals who appreciate the finer things in life and are absolutely vicious in hand-to-hand altercations.

http://geekmecca.com/wp-content/plug...Iron-Man-3.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...5-mandarin.jpg

http://latimesherocomplex.files.word...rin3.jpg?w=388

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Old 05-09-2013, 09:07 PM   #85
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

Okay well were just not gonna agree. The rings(the actual rings with power) were never in the movie but the way your talking about it sounds like it was in the movie. Oh, its a huge difference. One is one that breaths fire. The other has 10 alien rings. Thats a big difference. But its wat ev, i hate having debates on the internets, typing so much is annoying and both of us would be able to explain ourselves eaiser if we could talk to each other, no ones gonna win the other side over on a thread lol.

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Old 05-09-2013, 09:50 PM   #86
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

I love how Marvel gets one character wrong, a character we knew wasn't going to be comic accurate from the beginning, & everyone starts bashing MS. Now don't get me wrong I hate what they did to Mandarin, but I'll start complaining when Bucky turns out to be Baron Zemo or Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch are in a romantic relationship.


Oh wait... The latter happened in the comics. ;___;

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Old 05-09-2013, 09:58 PM   #87
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

I wonder if the same people would have complained if Kingsley had turned out to be the real Mandarin? He wouldn't have been an athletic martial artist. He wouldn't have been a scientist. He wouldn't represented the evils of the hypermasculine mindset. Would they have complained about those things if he had the rings and costume and nothing else?

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:07 PM   #88
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

I usually support accurate adaptations (with sensible changes of course), but I don't get the extent of the backlash against the Mandarin twist.

They told us years ago that they didn't want to do this character. They finally hyped up "The Mandarin" for IM3, and even the misleading advertising only really promised an Osama bin Laden wannabe with the Mandarin name attached to him.

We were never going to get a Chinese guy with martial arts skills and ten magic/alien rings.

I actually liked the twist and thought it was actually pretty hilarious. I can't say I'm mad that we didn't get Osama.

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:07 PM   #89
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

Okay well were just not gonna agree. The rings(the actual rings with power) were never in the movie but the way your talking about it sounds like it was in the movie. Oh, its a huge difference. One is one that breaths fire. The other has 10 alien rings. Thats a big difference. But its wat ev, i hate having debates on the internets, typing so much is annoying and both of us would be able to explain ourselves eaiser if we could talk to each other, no ones gonna win the other side over on a thread lol.

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:10 PM   #90
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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I wonder if the same people would have complained if Kingsley had turned out to be the real Mandarin? He wouldn't have been an athletic martial artist. He wouldn't have been a scientist. He wouldn't represented the evils of the hypermasculine mindset. Would they have complained about those things if he had the rings and costume and nothing else?
Yes, they would have complained. I'm surprised the Mandarin hate wagon wasn't so vocal before the movie came out and the twist was revealed.

Osama was already a pretty far cry from the comic Mandarin.

EDIT:

By the way, was there a huge backlash about the film versions of Obadiah Stane and Whiplash? Those two were greatly changed as well.

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:33 PM   #91
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

It boggles my mind how some of you are unable to see why the reason people are displeased goes beyond changes to the character. Honestly, some of you are failing to understand that when someone says 'I don't like what they did with the Mandarin' it's not about comic accuracy, it's about the build up to the character. It's not about whether he has powers or the lack of rings, it's about about feeling misled. Come on people, start reading between the freakin lines a bit more.

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Old 05-09-2013, 10:56 PM   #92
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

The problem is that Mandarin was a meticulous badass, a genuine threat, a mastermind. He used alien technology to craft a persona of mysticism and fear around himself. He took on the persona of an ancient mystic as a result of this. Regardless, NO ONE WAS EXPECTING THAT. We knew from Movie 1 he'd be different. We knew from the moment we heard that the Ten Rings was a terrorist group that he'd be different. We knew for SURE once we saw Ben Kingsley he'd be different, but we accepted it. It was all we expected. And instead we got... An actor fronting for Adrian Killian, who apparently also declares himself the Mandarin....just because. And the advertising, dear sweet God we were promised Tony vs the Mandarin and instead get Tony vs Killian. Most of the lines in the trailers aren't even in the movie. They baited and switched: Promised a Mandarin movie that borrowed from Extremis and instead gave us an Extremis movie that borrowed and butchered the Mandarin beyond recognition.

I have seen people clarify a thousand times on here that all they expected was the Mandarin from the trailers which we didn't get... but they still get poo-pooed by people as purists expecting 100% consistency with zero deviations from the comic at all.

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Old 05-09-2013, 11:09 PM   #93
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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The problem is that Mandarin was a meticulous badass, a genuine threat, a mastermind. He used alien technology to craft a persona of mysticism and fear around himself. He took on the persona of an ancient mystic as a result of this.
Now see I don't see that in comic Mandarin. In fact that sounds more like a description of Yellow Claw.

The Mandarin tends to be ruled by rage. Sometimes he's an intelligent barbarian who tries to work around his own maniacness. Other times he's an obvious maniac lacking any self-awareness. But self-aware or not, he's always a raging maniac. It's the most consistent thing about him.

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Old 05-09-2013, 11:23 PM   #94
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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The problem is that Mandarin was a meticulous badass, a genuine threat, a mastermind. He used alien technology to craft a persona of mysticism and fear around himself. He took on the persona of an ancient mystic as a result of this. Regardless, NO ONE WAS EXPECTING THAT. We knew from Movie 1 he'd be different. We knew from the moment we heard that the Ten Rings was a terrorist group that he'd be different. We knew for SURE once we saw Ben Kingsley he'd be different, but we accepted it. It was all we expected. And instead we got... An actor fronting for Adrian Killian, who apparently also declares himself the Mandarin....just because. And the advertising, dear sweet God we were promised Tony vs the Mandarin and instead get Tony vs Killian. Most of the lines in the trailers aren't even in the movie. They baited and switched: Promised a Mandarin movie that borrowed from Extremis and instead gave us an Extremis movie that borrowed and butchered the Mandarin beyond recognition.

I have seen people clarify a thousand times on here that all they expected was the Mandarin from the trailers which we didn't get... but they still get poo-pooed by people as purists expecting 100% consistency with zero deviations from the comic at all.
I think they perfectly aware that the 100% 'purists' are virtually non-existant. It's not a black and white situation, the problem is the debate is being turned into a black and white situation by people who are ok with the plot twist, any negativity is being labeled as typical fanboy behaviour without taking into account why people are actually upset. It's not like the permawhite BS as few years ago, that was an obnoxious case of irate fans making out it was vital the Joker had bleached skin, it's a case of feeling misled. There's a vast difference between feeling entitled and feeling tricked.

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Old 05-09-2013, 11:23 PM   #95
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Lol he is lame. Loki is by far marvels best villian. Killian: "oh im a scientist and i wana kill everone cause I was ugly and no one listened to my many ideas and i hate tony stark cause he passed on me for rebecca hall". Btw hall gets with u like couple hours later so look someone wants to work with u but ur still a cry baby. Lame as villian. Poor backstory as to why hes a villian.

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Old 05-10-2013, 02:40 AM   #96
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What do you mean we should complain?? I never understood how people believe they are entitled to complain about something they didn't create. It's one thing to say "personally I didn't like the movie" it's another to say "this is how the movie should have been made because I thought it would of been better this way" honestly people need to get over theirselves I'm not trying to put anyone down but if you want something done your way Do It Yourself!
The "don't complain if you can't do it yourself" doesn't stick, you're the consumer, you're entitled to dislike something about the product you bought, if everything was as you said it would be pointless to have movie critics, and the Twilight, Resident Evil series and so many others wouldn't have so bad reviews.

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Old 05-10-2013, 03:25 AM   #97
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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The "don't complain if you can't do it yourself" doesn't stick, you're the consumer, you're entitled to dislike something about the product you bought, if everything was as you said it would be pointless to have movie critics, and the Twilight, Resident Evil series and so many others wouldn't have so bad reviews.
What I was trying to get across was that I understand not liking something because something is substantially wrong with it. But there's a difference between that and what's going on with this. People are complaining about the Mandarin being done a certain way that doesn't fit with their conceived images of how the character should have been done. If someone doesn't like the movie or the plot twist that's fine but people shouldn't presume that they know more about how something should be done than the people who are actually doing it. That's what I meant. I agree with constructive criticism, but not with destructive complaining.

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Old 05-10-2013, 05:22 AM   #98
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Yeah, I guess all of a sudden he's this main A list villain everyones always cared about haha. I understand the disappointment coming from the Iron Man comic fans, but theres all of a sudden a million new Mandarin fans all over the net.
Yeah, it was like that with Hawkeye. No one really liked him, then he died and suddenly "OMG HEZ MY FAVERIT CHARATOR!".

Oh well, it's getting a bit passionate in here for me so I'm heading off. Bye everyone!

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:01 AM   #99
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

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Yeah, it was like that with Hawkeye. No one really liked him, then he died and suddenly "OMG HEZ MY FAVERIT CHARATOR!".

Oh well, it's getting a bit passionate in here for me so I'm heading off. Bye everyone!
wait what....?
When did Hawkeye die....?

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Old 05-10-2013, 07:35 AM   #100
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Default Re: Dear Kevin Feige... please don't slowly turn Marvel Studios into Fox or Sony

Aside from the numerous problems with the Mandarin that I've complained about elsewhere in the IM3 boards, I'll say that I almost universally dislike movies that rely on twists. Because it's only good for the first time you see it. Afterwards the cheap trick is done and you don't have that in your movie's favor any more. Movies that rely on twists I find almost always degrade upon repeat viewings. Such is the nature of a twist. Unbreakable is about the only twist movie that I'd say manages to avoid this and a lot of that is because the twist happens literally in the last 2 minutes of the movie. So the vast majority of the film doesn't hinge on the twist working in order to be good.

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