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Old 07-25-2015, 09:21 AM   #101
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

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I really disliked the way they handled Hope, she should have just been given the costume on this first movie and all the arguments they tried to do to keep her away just seemed forced, the audience didn't buy it.

I also think the Ant-Man action sequences lacked good pace, swiftness and proper cuts to them.
Oh the audience didn't buy it? I was unaware you spoke for the general audience as a whole.

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Old 07-25-2015, 10:00 AM   #102
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Howard Stark and Peggy Carter still working for Shield in 1989. They would have to be well into their 70s. Shouldn't they be retired or something. Marvel should stop finding reasons to put Peggy Carter in Marvel movies. Her time is past.

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Old 07-25-2015, 11:51 AM   #103
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

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Howard Stark and Peggy Carter still working for Shield in 1989. They would have to be well into their 70s. Shouldn't they be retired or something. Marvel should stop finding reasons to put Peggy Carter in Marvel movies. Her time is past.
In the MCU Peggy was born in 1921 - she would have been 68. Howard I think was born in 1918, so he would have been 71 (and just a couple years away from his assassination). Not really *well* into their 70's. Even if they were, some people - especially if it's a job they love/or are passionate about - will hold off on retiring for as long as possible. I had no problem with their inclusion

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Old 07-25-2015, 02:21 PM   #104
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I disagree

It allowed us to see what Lang can do vs an Avenger - I know, Falcon is not very powerful but keep in mind it was Lang's 1st mission.

Also, Falcon got to know him and knows what he can do, and we all know he and Cap are going to need him as we saw in the end credits scene


So yes, that scene had a purpose
It also feeds into the general tone of the franchise: yes, there are other heroes out there, and you might well run across them by chance. The world does not entirely revolve around just you.

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Old 07-25-2015, 02:58 PM   #105
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

It wouldve been different if Scott went to some random warehouse and Falcon showed up but he was at the Avengers HQ. I mean, what do people expect?

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Old 07-25-2015, 08:31 PM   #106
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I thought they could have done some cooler stuff w/ pym particles... like a car that holds 1000x as much fuel (because the tank shrinks and expands it as it uses it), stuff like that. In other words, the same creative spin they give iron man they should have given ant man w/ more than just the immediate what-do-we-use-in-a-fight utilities.

Other thing was the shield in 1989 felt off... Peggy not old enough, that new dude not looking older later on, etc.

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Old 07-25-2015, 09:08 PM   #107
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It wouldve been different if Scott went to some random warehouse and Falcon showed up but he was at the Avengers HQ. I mean, what do people expect?
They don't expect a 1st Gen Avenger like Falcon patrolling the HQ in full costume


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Old 07-25-2015, 09:26 PM   #108
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Hope trained Scott Lang and showed greater ability at commanding the Ants than Scott did, but again the movie tries to tell the audience in a bad way that Hope cannot take a risk but someone else must bear this risk because she is the daughter of Hank Pym, when she learns her mother's true fate the movie immediately realizes it's being too dramatic and has Scott pull off jokes and then ends the movie with finally Hank Pym giving his daughter a permission to be a hero in a sequel which may never come out or a cameo or two in some Avengers flick.

There is no logical reason why the attack on Darren couldn't have had both the Ant-Man and Wasp duo up.
Because Daren Cross wanted Hope by his side during the suit unveiling, he would have smelt a rat if she would be absent

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Old 07-26-2015, 02:22 AM   #109
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Honestly I think the movie's biggest flaw was that Scott Lang felt totally superfluous. He didn't really bring anything particularly special to the table that absolutely required he be the one to pull off the heist. Hope was established as being familiar and comfortable with the suit and with controlling ants. Hank's reason for refusing to allow Hope to don the suit and do the heist made sense for him, but it didn't make sense for Hope to bow to his demands. She seemed like the type who'd just steal the suit and do it, her father's wishes be damned, because it needed to be done. But I guess Marvel kinda had to have the hero be either Hank or Scott since the title is Ant-Man.

That being said, they could have revealed the Wasp suit earlier, had Scott get into trouble during the heist, and then Hope takes the Wasp suit without Hank's permission and saves/helps Scott. That would have been more satisfying than how the movie actually handled it.

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:00 AM   #110
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Yeah because Hank losing his wife on a mission and it devastating him and Hope for decades would make him want to give her a Wasp suit right away so she could maybe die in the same way. Thats logical.

Thats a complaint that holds no water.

That's a defense that holds no water. Hank not wanting her to do it makes perfect sense. Hope just accepting what Hank wants without a single protest is mind bogglingly bizarre, especially since she's clearly been established as more proficient at all of this than Scott is. So if the stakes are really so world shattering here, why does she just let Hank bench their strongest asset for his own selfish sentimental reasons?

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:00 AM   #111
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Because Daren Cross wanted Hope by his side during the suit unveiling, he would have smelt a rat if she would be absent
And yet the actual plan they went with had Hope not by Cross' side. Instead, she was helping Louis break into secure areas.

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:06 AM   #112
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Honestly I think the movie's biggest flaw was that Scott Lang felt totally superfluous. He didn't really bring anything particularly special to the table that absolutely required he be the one to pull off the heist. Hope was established as being familiar and comfortable with the suit and with controlling ants. Hank's reason for refusing to allow Hope to don the suit and do the heist made sense for him, but it didn't make sense for Hope to bow to his demands. She seemed like the type who'd just steal the suit and do it, her father's wishes be damned, because it needed to be done. But I guess Marvel kinda had to have the hero be either Hank or Scott since the title is Ant-Man.

That being said, they could have revealed the Wasp suit earlier, had Scott get into trouble during the heist, and then Hope takes the Wasp suit without Hank's permission and saves/helps Scott. That would have been more satisfying than how the movie actually handled it.
I agree, this is by far the largest problem in the movie. Even more so, since, imo, Scott wasn't even very funny, either. Most of his stuff bordered on painful (especially when he interrupted Hank and Hope), and the only really good joke he had was 'I think our first move should be to call the Avengers'.

I didn't have a big problem with Scott's buddies, but they were pretty generic.

I actually thought Cross was one of the better marvel villains (comparisons to Obadiah Stane are perfectly fair, but I'd rather have Cross than Stane).

Also Scott's whole introduction sequence from the prison to the Baskin Robbins and his apartment was slow and boring as hell. BR manager was kind of almost funny, and that was basically the high point of that entire piece of the movie.

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:38 AM   #113
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

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I agree, this is by far the largest problem in the movie. Even more so, since, imo, Scott wasn't even very funny, either. Most of his stuff bordered on painful (especially when he interrupted Hank and Hope), and the only really good joke he had was 'I think our first move should be to call the Avengers'.

I didn't have a big problem with Scott's buddies, but they were pretty generic.

I actually thought Cross was one of the better marvel villains (comparisons to Obadiah Stane are perfectly fair, but I'd rather have Cross than Stane).

Also Scott's whole introduction sequence from the prison to the Baskin Robbins and his apartment was slow and boring as hell. BR manager was kind of almost funny, and that was basically the high point of that entire piece of the movie.
That was extremely slow and I wondered if kids would begin to switch off by that point. I still think the movie should've started with a prologue of Hank Pym as Ant-Man. They could also have speeded up the whole Scott introduction. Maybe made more of a montage of him trying out for different jobs instead of a whole BR scene. It took way too long before he actually got to try on the suit.

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Old 07-26-2015, 07:27 AM   #114
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And yet the actual plan they went with had Hope not by Cross' side. Instead, she was helping Louis break into secure areas.
Actually during the presentation, with the buyers and all, Hope was by his side, that was the actual moment when the 'Heist' was meant to take place i.e stealing the Yellow Jacket suit

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Old 07-26-2015, 07:34 AM   #115
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Actually during the presentation, with the buyers and all, Hope was by his side, that was the actual moment when the 'Heist' was meant to take place i.e stealing the Yellow Jacket suit
Wasn't she already caught and under guard by then?

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Old 07-26-2015, 08:03 AM   #116
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

^ No. She and Pym were just there. At that point, Cross was acting like he suspected nothing. The assumption was it would be the safest time to steal it under his nose (that being said, I'm not sure what the plan was after that because he'd surely expect they had help).

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Honestly I think the movie's biggest flaw was that Scott Lang felt totally superfluous. He didn't really bring anything particularly special to the table that absolutely required he be the one to pull off the heist. Hope was established as being familiar and comfortable with the suit and with controlling ants. Hank's reason for refusing to allow Hope to don the suit and do the heist made sense for him, but it didn't make sense for Hope to bow to his demands. She seemed like the type who'd just steal the suit and do it, her father's wishes be damned, because it needed to be done. But I guess Marvel kinda had to have the hero be either Hank or Scott since the title is Ant-Man.
I think Scott had one big contribution: He came up with the actual plan. When Cross doubled down on security, he was the one who figured out the weakness that let them get in.

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Old 07-26-2015, 08:34 AM   #117
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

Scott was chosen specifically by Hank Pym because he was an electrical engineer/thief so he was important to be Ant Man. Another complaint that makes no sense.

Im not gonna try to answer/defend every single flaw in this movie. You can pick apart/tear down the entire film if thats your thing, I dont care. Its a fun, entertaining sci fi movie for the most part, not perfect in every way but so what? You either like it or you dont. If you dont, youre just gonna use this topic to troll and be a douche about it.

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Old 07-26-2015, 08:54 AM   #118
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^ No. She and Pym were just there. At that point, Cross was acting like he suspected nothing. The assumption was it would be the safest time to steal it under his nose (that being said, I'm not sure what the plan was after that because he'd surely expect they had help).



I think Scott had one big contribution: He came up with the actual plan. When Cross doubled down on security, he was the one who figured out the weakness that let them get in.
That's a fair point and I hadn't considered it. Although, I also can't help thinking if Hank had just let Hope take care of things instead of wasting months looking for Scott and giving Cross time to catch on, none of that extra security would've been there in the first place.

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Old 07-26-2015, 08:56 AM   #119
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

^^ He chose Scott because he didnt have to be emotionally involved with him, it was business. He had lost Janet and he didnt want to lose Hope. Her being able to kick ass was irrelevant to him. It was his only family left.

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Old 07-26-2015, 09:23 AM   #120
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

For a supposed heist movie, the heist didn't seem like the focus. The best heist movies are ones where the heist is complex and has several twists and turns. This heist didn't really have any of that.

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Old 07-26-2015, 09:50 AM   #121
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

Heist movies arent always that complex. Some are, some arent, the main thing is to make the heists entertaining and/or suspenseful. I thought AMs was pretty good. It def wasnt like a "holy crap, I cant believe that!" type heist set up, but it served its purpose.

I also think since Ant Man was involved, it bypassed a lot of the normal heist details. Because hes not human sized, it made it easier for him to carry it out. Like going down the water pipe on a raft of ants. Thats never been done in a heist film.

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Old 07-26-2015, 03:01 PM   #122
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Default Re: What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

Liked the movie but a few minor critiques:

1. Hope should have become the Wasp and joined Scott on the heist. Hank was proud of what Janet had achieved, and while his concerns were understandable they were over emphasised to allow the story to focus on Scott. Wasp is to important to ignore until probably the IW movies.

2. The kiss between Scott and Hope came out of nowhere and was unnecessary. Couldn't the two just be friends?

3. This isn't a criticism, but did anyone else feel that the tone of the movie kept jumping between what were obviously the ideas of Edgar Wright and Peyton Reed? Wright has such a unique approach and some scenes were clearly his work (e.g. killing the guy & flushing him down the toilet, the train fight, giant ant etc.). It was strange to keep switching between the two styles.

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Old 07-26-2015, 04:22 PM   #123
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I'm going to disagree strongly with that last point because of comments by Peyton Reed. Basically, people have done exactly what you just did (point to something that must "obviously" be Edgar Wright because of his unique style) and get it exactly wrong. People thought the Cure song was Edgar Wright when it was Peyton Reed, for example. I don't think we know enough to speculate on who wrote which part.

Given all that, I don't think the tone jumped too widely apart. For example, one thing you listed (killing the guy and flushing him down the toilet) felt just as much par for the course as everything else in the movie.

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Old 07-26-2015, 06:22 PM   #124
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The part about the Pym particles messing with the brain kind of comes out of nowhere, and then doesn't really amount to anything. I get that it's a reference to the comics, but it doesn't get enough attention here. Hope just randomly drops that factoid, and to be honest for a second I thought she was just stalling for time.

Speaking of her, Hope was pretty much right that she was much better for the job. I get that Hank doesn't want her to go after what happened to Jan, but it's still a pretty flimsy reason, and after she learns the truth about her mother, there's really no reason why she couldn't join Scott anyway. I'd be a bit more accepting of it if it weren't for the huge lack of female superheroes in the MCU. Couldn't even introduce just one more for the climax? Get another one established and out there for the Civil War?

And still not a huge fan of Jan being dead either. She named the Avengers, dammit.

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Old 07-26-2015, 07:53 PM   #125
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No Wasp for the finale was better, or else it would feel to crammed up, the focus was Scott Lang and Hank Pym

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