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Old Yesterday, 10:56 AM   #326
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Deck Rickard, put your post in spoiler tags.

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Old Yesterday, 10:57 AM   #327
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deck Rickard View Post
Hey, did you see that report that said that there's a shocking twist at the end of the movie that reveals that the Joker and Batman are actually the same person? Yeah, apparently in this universe, the Joker is so psychotic that he creates an entirely new identity to solve his own crimes.

Can't wait to hear you explain why this is another BRILLIANT idea!


Dude. This is a movie with the Joker as the lead, by the friggin' director of The Hangover, set 3 decades ago when the current DCEU Batman was like 15 years old.

If you're expecting a traditional, classic, doing-what-the-books-do Batman tale here, you're going to be disappointed. It's pretty clearly an experiment, separate to the main DC verse where there'll likely be a more classic Joker whenever he reappears again there (Leto or recasting). This'll be balls-to-the-wall trippy elseworlds fare, nothing wrong with that.

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Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM   #328
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
I don't see any reason why Batman couldn't be a reaction to The Joker in this version of the tale, or even in the wider DCEU.

After all, Batman is a reaction to senseless, chaotic violence, isn't he? And isn't Batman's specialty the weird and exotic crime?

Just more preconceived notions at play here, based on what has always been.
Seriously, have you read a Batman comic, dude? I have to wonder with comments like this.

Batman is a reaction to crime. Full stop. Weird, normal, run of the mill, super-villain, etc etc.

He exists because an act of crime took his parents away from him, and his life is dedicated to preventing that from happening to others. He fights crime. ANY crime. That's one of Nolan's biggest mistakes with TDKR - positioning Batman as someone who only fights high level crime.

And Batman is the reason for the explosion of supervillains in Gotham... not the other way around. That's part of the brilliance of the character. There's an underlying but clear sense of guilt that hangs around Batman. The notion that he himself is responsible for the demons unleashed on Gotham. The Joker is a reaction to Batman. Try to turn that around, and you lose so much from both characterisations.


I'm getting sick of this 'Batman doesn't really matter' tone that this thread and others have started having.

No Batman - no Joker. No Batman - no Gotham. No Batman - no story.

Batman is the centre, around which everything else circulates. I do hope the makers of this movie don't forget that, because the general audience bloody won't. They WILL sit there wondering when Batman is turning up, and if he doesn't in some respect they will be disappointed.

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Last edited by m1ll3r; Yesterday at 02:35 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:42 PM   #329
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Originally Posted by BestGirl View Post
Deck Rickard, put your post in spoiler tags.
Even when the spoilers are things I just made up?

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Old Yesterday, 02:50 PM   #330
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Seriously, have you read a Batman comic, dude? I have to wonder with comments like this.

Batman is a reaction to crime. Full stop. Weird, normal, run of the mill, super-villain, etc etc.

He exists because an act of crime took his parents away from him, and his life is dedicated to preventing that from happening to others. He fights crime. ANY crime. That's one of Nolan's biggest mistakes with TDKR - positioning Batman as someone who only fights high level crime.

And Batman is the reason for the explosion of supervillains in Gotham... not the other way around. That's part of the brilliance of the character. There's an underlying but clear sense of guilt that hangs around Batman. The notion that he himself is responsible for the demons unleashed on Gotham. The Joker is a reaction to Batman. Try to turn that around, and you lose so much from both characterisations.


I'm getting sick of this 'Batman doesn't really matter' tone that this thread and others have started having.

No Batman - no Joker. No Batman - no Gotham. No Batman - no story.

Batman is the centre, around which everything else circulates. I do hope the makers of this movie don't forget that, because the general audience bloody won't. They WILL sit there wondering when Batman is turning up, and if he doesn't in some respect they will be disappointed.
All of this! and I think we all are hoping this film ends up being great, but people need to remember who these characters are and what their motivations are. Zack Snyders DC films run is perfect example of what happens when you do the exact opposite of who these characters are supposed to be, and its one of the reasons all of his DC films turned out poor/bad.


Last edited by Gothamsknight; Yesterday at 02:57 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 03:02 PM   #331
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Yeah, this film feels like a confirmation that Zack Snyder ruined the DC universe on film. The Joker is a reaction to Batman. Burton understood that. Nolan understood that. But now, thanks to Snyder's DC MURDERVERSE® we have a Joker movie that takes place before Batman exists. This happened because Zack screwed the DCEU so much that WB now feels a need to just take bizarre concepts and throw them up onscreen to see if anyone is interested.

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Old Yesterday, 03:29 PM   #332
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

It truly is a crisis on infinite earths.

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Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM   #333
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
I'm getting sick of this 'Batman doesn't really matter' tone that this thread and others have started having.

No Batman - no Joker. No Batman - no Gotham. No Batman - no story.

Batman is the centre, around which everything else circulates. I do hope the makers of this movie don't forget that, because the general audience bloody won't. They WILL sit there wondering when Batman is turning up, and if he doesn't in some respect they will be disappointed.
Nobody says Batman doesn't matter, we're just saying that as an ELSEWORLDS story this is perfectly fine. This is (probably) a world where the Joker comes about before Batman. Could be interesting. That's all.

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Old Yesterday, 04:41 PM   #334
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Originally Posted by Greens View Post
Nobody says Batman doesn't matter, we're just saying that as an ELSEWORLDS story this is perfectly fine. This is (probably) a world where the Joker comes about before Batman. Could be interesting. That's all.
Hmmmmm. That’s a fundamental change to the character that I think personally would be a mistake, both in narrative terms, and in terms of box office success, but I stand to be corrected.

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Old Yesterday, 04:41 PM   #335
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Hmmmmm. That’s a fundamental change to the character that I think personally would be a mistake, both in narrative terms, and in terms of box office success, but I stand to be corrected.
That's cool. We'll have to see. The movie could be a disaster for totally unrelated reasons too.

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Where the hell does it say that you've got a right to kick down doors, torture suspects, deny medical attention and legal counsel?
Where have you been? Does Escobedo ring a bell? Miranda? I mean, you must have heard of the Fourth Amendment. What I'm saying is that man had rights!

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Old Yesterday, 06:16 PM   #336
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Warner Bros. is entering an interesting phase of the DC Comics Cinematic Universe with Todd Phillips set to direct a standalone Joker movie set in the eighties.

We have a tiny crew update and they have a connection to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. They’ve added visual effects supervisor Edwin Rivera, who has worked on films such Spider-Man: Homecoming, Guardians of The Galaxy Vol.2, and 22 Jump Street.
https://omegaunderground.com/2018/07...fx-supervisor/

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Old Yesterday, 07:15 PM   #337
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deck Rickard View Post
Yeah, this film feels like a confirmation that Zack Snyder ruined the DC universe on film. The Joker is a reaction to Batman. Burton understood that. Nolan understood that. But now, thanks to Snyder's DC MURDERVERSE® we have a Joker movie that takes place before Batman exists. This happened because Zack screwed the DCEU so much that WB now feels a need to just take bizarre concepts and throw them up onscreen to see if anyone is interested.
Are you seriously blaming Snyder for this? Are some of you that desperate to blame the guy when he's had absolute zero involvement with these movies since Justice League? Do you despise him that much? WB's "mistakes," whatever your perception of them are mid-and-post Justice League, are not his mistakes.

And people say hardcore Snyder fans can be hyperbolic, ay caramba.

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Old Yesterday, 09:28 PM   #338
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Originally Posted by SkullDevil View Post
Are you seriously blaming Snyder for this? Are some of you that desperate to blame the guy when he's had absolute zero involvement with these movies since Justice League? Do you despise him that much? WB's "mistakes," whatever your perception of them are mid-and-post Justice League, are not his mistakes.

And people say hardcore Snyder fans can be hyperbolic, ay caramba.
Yes, it’s completely irrational and hyperbolic to blame the man who
made three divisive movies that left WB completely unsure of what to do with its top tier characters, ultimately leading them trying to figure out whether they should try and course correct or just switch to releasing films that have no connection whatsoever. In an age where multiple studios are working to launch cinematic universes with characters that are interconnected, WB is unsure of whether or not that can work because the movies that were intended to be the launchpad for said universe bombed either critically or financially, or both. But hey, don’t blame the director. It’s never his fault. Never.

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Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM   #339
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

zack snyder ruined a lot of things, including Lex Luthor, but the joker isn't one of them

Thats all on David Ayer and probably Jared Leto

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Old Yesterday, 09:56 PM   #340
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deck Rickard View Post
Yes, it’s completely irrational and hyperbolic to blame the man who
made three divisive movies that left WB completely unsure of what to do with its top tier characters, ultimately leading them trying to figure out whether they should try and course correct or just switch to releasing films that have no connection whatsoever. In an age where multiple studios are working to launch cinematic universes with characters that are interconnected, WB is unsure of whether or not that can work because the movies that were intended to be the launchpad for said universe bombed either critically or financially, or both. But hey, don’t blame the director. It’s never his fault. Never.
Ah, the strawman argument. Quite the classic maneuver.

Actually, if you stopped generalizing things, you would've realized that WB is actually comprised of, quite shockingly, adult executives who are capable of making their own decisions regardless of a director's past mistakes. Snyder didn't tell them to greenlit a Letoker movie, they did that on their own; Snyder didn't tell them to greenlit this movie, they did that on their own; etc. Everything currently happening in the DCEU right now does not involve Snyder's presence or input whatsoever.

He should not be held accountable for these decisions because WB is running the show. Yes, Man Of Steel and BvS did lead the DCEU into quite the problematic state, but last I recall, he wasn't involved with SS and we all know how that turned out. After his departure from JL after his daughter passed away, he's no longer associated with the franchise. WB should've ceased being so reactionary on their own and stop putting leashes around directors that are not Patty Jenkins, so they can turn the DCEU ship around. They had (with Wonder Woman), but then they did what they did with JL and the franchise was back to square one. They didn't re-evalutate their decisions enough.

A dark superhero movie isn't inherently bad while a lighthearted superhero isn't inherently good. It's all about writing, execution, it's not just about the tone which for the most part WB didn't seem to realize. Snyder does share some of the blame here, but he's not the only one.

Snyder has made mistakes in the past, as a fan of his I objectively comprehend why people don't like his DC films, but he is in no way responsible for the recent path the DCEU is taking. This is all WB and Walter Hamada now.

And yes, you are acting irrational and hyperbolic. Get your head out of the gutter for 5 seconds and stop trying to villify the guy. He made three divisive superhero movies, he didn't slaughter your entire family, so stop acting like it.

I'm done with this conversation. Have a good day.

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Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM   #341
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullDevil View Post
Ah, the strawman argument. Quite the classic maneuver.

Actually, if you stopped generalizing things, you would've realized that WB is actually comprised of, quite shockingly, adult executives who are capable of making their own decisions regardless of a director's past mistakes. Snyder didn't tell them to greenlit a Letoker movie, they did that on their own; Snyder didn't tell them to greenlit this movie, they did that on their own; etc. Everything currently happening in the DCEU right now does not involve Snyder's presence or input whatsoever.

He should not be held accountable for these decisions because WB is running the show. Yes, Man Of Steel and BvS did lead the DCEU into quite the problematic state, but last I recall, he wasn't involved with SS and we all know how that turned out. After his departure from JL after his daughter passed away, he's no longer associated with the franchise. WB should've ceased being so reactionary on their own and stop putting leashes around directors that are not Patty Jenkins, so they can turn the DCEU ship around. They had (with Wonder Woman), but then they did what they did with JL and the franchise was back to square one. They didn't re-evalutate their decisions enough.

A dark superhero movie isn't inherently bad while a lighthearted superhero isn't inherently good. It's all about writing, execution, it's not just about the tone which for the most part WB didn't seem to realize. Snyder does share some of the blame here, but he's not the only one.

Snyder has made mistakes in the past, as a fan of his I objectively comprehend why people don't like his DC films, but he is in no way responsible for the recent path the DCEU is taking. This is all WB and Walter Hamada now.

And yes, you are acting irrational and hyperbolic. Get your head out of the gutter for 5 seconds and stop trying to villify the guy. He made three divisive superhero movies, he didn't slaughter your entire family, so stop acting like it.

I'm done with this conversation. Have a good day.
Yes, because blaming a guy for the current state of DC movies, regardless of whether or not it’s all his fault, is TOTALLY acting like he slaughtered my family. Who’s being hyperbolic now?

And yeah, WB’s executives are to blame for this too, as are Ayer and Leto. And it is true that those two are more to blame for the only live action version of the Joker that has been universally reviled. THAT can’t be blamed on Snyder, it’s true. But Snyder put the DC universe in a bad spot with BvS, and put the final nail in the coffin with JL (blame Whedon too for that one if you want). After that, WB was left scratching their heads over what to do with this shared universe. And so with Ayer and Leto ruining their most popular villain, they decided to just greenlight this Joker movie, because why the hell not.

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Old Today, 12:35 AM   #342
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Old Today, 12:43 AM   #343
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Seriously, have you read a Batman comic, dude? I have to wonder with comments like this.

Batman is a reaction to crime. Full stop. Weird, normal, run of the mill, super-villain, etc etc.

He exists because an act of crime took his parents away from him, and his life is dedicated to preventing that from happening to others. He fights crime. ANY crime. That's one of Nolan's biggest mistakes with TDKR - positioning Batman as someone who only fights high level crime.

And Batman is the reason for the explosion of supervillains in Gotham... not the other way around. That's part of the brilliance of the character. There's an underlying but clear sense of guilt that hangs around Batman. The notion that he himself is responsible for the demons unleashed on Gotham. The Joker is a reaction to Batman. Try to turn that around, and you lose so much from both characterisations.


I'm getting sick of this 'Batman doesn't really matter' tone that this thread and others have started having.

No Batman - no Joker. No Batman - no Gotham. No Batman - no story.

Batman is the centre, around which everything else circulates. I do hope the makers of this movie don't forget that, because the general audience bloody won't. They WILL sit there wondering when Batman is turning up, and if he doesn't in some respect they will be disappointed.
Hear hear

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Old Today, 01:00 AM   #344
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennywise View Post
According to Production Weekly, the title for the film could be "Joker".

https://www.productionweekly.com/pro...ings-36-pages/
"Joker: A Star Wars Story"

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Old Today, 01:07 AM   #345
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Default Re: "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Par

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Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Seriously, have you read a Batman comic, dude? I have to wonder with comments like this.


What you're failing to grasp is, this isn't a mainstream Batman story following the comics. The other guy's read comics, he gets that Batman & Joker are symbiotic.

In the comics.

There's nothing at all mandating they do that here. Batman might exist in this other-verse continuity, he might not, we don't know. But they're under no obligation to.

Joker didn't kill Bruces' parents in the books either. So, what, Burton's movie's somehow illegitimate or something? Same logic.

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