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Old 07-17-2018, 05:38 PM   #926
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
It would mean Batman in Reeves’s film is beloved by children enough for companies to make toys of him. And that they would own a licence to reproduce his image and equipment.

Surely this requires Reeves’s Batman to be an upstanding, popular, accepted and beloved hero for the American people? Someone who toy companies feel comfortable marketing to small children. Certainly not a terrifying vigilante who beats criminals half to death, and spends his entire time trying to be as intimidating, scary and demonic as he can.

No, the Batman who is beloved by children, and is made into toy figures is Adam West’s Batman.
You’re overthinking it.

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Old 07-17-2018, 05:46 PM   #927
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Me neither.
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The main thing Shazam is reminding me of at the moment is Jingle All The Way.

This is not a good thing.
Yeah, I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I feel Aquaman a lot more at the moment than I do Shazam.

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Old 07-17-2018, 05:47 PM   #928
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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You’re overthinking it.
If you think so, but I’d say that this all has huge ramifications for the next Batman film, wouldn’t you say?

That the DCEU Batman is a public enough figure for toy companies to make accurate figures and props of him will surely have an impact on the story.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:11 PM   #929
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

Not necessarily. They just don't have to mention it. I mean in Suicide Squad a dude had a Batman mask during that Joker raid, so it's not like Batman merchandise is a completely new concept.

It's really not a huge deal.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:11 PM   #930
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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If you think so, but I’d say that this all has huge ramifications for the next Batman film, wouldn’t you say?

That the DCEU Batman is a public enough figure for toy companies to make accurate figures and props of him will surely have an impact on the story.
Or more likely, they'll just ignore it entirely.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:14 PM   #931
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

Fair enough guys. As I’ve said over in the Shazam thread, I’m not keen on a Matt Reeves Batman movie where Batman is a merchandised person, who is loved by the world’s children, and is a public enough figure to have accurate toy figures made from him, but if it doesn’t trouble you, then that’s fine.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:34 PM   #932
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

Agree with m1ll3r. They can create Batman stories that children can enjoy, but putting merchandise into a film spoils it for me. Doesn't align with Batman being terror of criminal underworld in my mind. Dark take on the character, of course.

Also, don't bring Suicide Squad as an example for anything. Not that film.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:39 PM   #933
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Raised this in Shazam thread, but worth discussing here too, I think. This picture is from Shazam:



...so Shazam is in the DCEU. This means the ‘real’ Batman has had toys made of him.

Matt Reeves’s Batman movie is also supposed to be in the DCEU according to many, including Reeves on Twitter.

So, Reeves’s Batman movie will feature a Batman who has toys and merchandise on toy store shelves in America.

How does this strike you?
Better than one who murders people, I guess.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:41 PM   #934
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Better than one who murders people, I guess.
Why do we have to choose between two ill concepts...

Because DCFU.

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Old 07-17-2018, 06:54 PM   #935
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Fair enough guys. As I’ve said over in the Shazam thread, I’m not keen on a Matt Reeves Batman movie where Batman is a merchandised person, who is loved by the world’s children, and is a public enough figure to have accurate toy figures made from him, but if it doesn’t trouble you, then that’s fine.
The DCEU is a circus act in my opinion anyway. But I am confused here. Is the Reeves's Batman the same Batman we have seen (minus Ben) or is it a new Batman? That to me is the key. You can't have toys of Snyder's Murderman and if it is a new Batman and had toys made of him , then he probably is too public for my taste.

That being said, they are probably just using the Batman and Superman symbols to show these kids idolize and dream about being heroes which to me tells me that they are making Shazam part of the wrong comic book movie universe and it's probably way to early to do it .

can you imagine that same image with a picture of a Superman we all love and a figure of the Flash and and a Green Lantern we are all familiar with? Definitely would be more impactful.


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Old 07-17-2018, 08:15 PM   #936
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

The continuity can be soft, whatever.

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Old 07-17-2018, 08:25 PM   #937
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Why do we have to choose between two ill concepts...

Because DCFU.
Baby steps

We’ll have the definitive live action Batman by 2035

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Old 07-17-2018, 09:06 PM   #938
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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I'm still curious to see what Cavill would do in the role with a different director (and no, Whedon doesn't count).

Whedon was not allowed to make a movie. He was allowed to shoot scenes that would need zero special effects and connect it to scenes with special effects that were already shot AND make it as a coherent a story as possible. It was a suicide mission from the start.

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Old 07-17-2018, 09:09 PM   #939
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

There is something really weird about there being Batman merch within the film universe.

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Old 07-17-2018, 09:21 PM   #940
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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There is something really weird about there being Batman merch within the film universe.
Do you not like product placement?

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Old 07-17-2018, 10:42 PM   #941
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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If you think so, but I’d say that this all has huge ramifications for the next Batman film, wouldn’t you say?
I can’t quite bring myself to believe that some random action figure in the background of a scene that’s dominated by Superman merchandise will affect Reeves’ vision in any way.

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Old 07-18-2018, 03:20 AM   #942
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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There is something really weird about there being Batman merch within the film universe.
Maybe more so with the Snyder-era Batman (and his weird background choices) and not so much for the post-Snyder one.

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Old 07-18-2018, 05:07 AM   #943
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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I can’t quite bring myself to believe that some random action figure in the background of a scene that’s dominated by Superman merchandise will affect Reeves’ vision in any way.
Well, you say that, but the very fact an action figure of Batman exists means that he's a popular public figure, yes? That's a pretty big departure from the way Batman has been represented in live action previously.

Look, the only point I am trying to make in all of this, is that I personally have something of an issue with Batman being portrayed as a character who is in the public eye enough to be loved by children, and to have toys made out of him that accurately reflect what he looks like.

It just doesn't seem the right way to go moving forward with the DCEU.

I cheerfully accept that I might be in the minority on this. I certainly made the mistake of raising the issue in the Shazam thread, and got jumped up and down on by the DCEU Defenders, so I guess most aren't bothered by it. That's fine.

I suppose I just prefer Batman to be a figure in the shadows, an urban legend, a bogeyman - who isn't widely known and recognised by lots of people. Everything about that action figure, and the plastic recreation batarang, suggests that this isn't the case with this Batman, moving forward into Matt Reeves's movie. He's clearly going to be a more accepted 'superhero' in the eyes of the DCEU public. But I guess that's the 'Justice League' Batman, which is not my favourite variation on the character by any means. I prefer my Batman solitary, scary, unknown, and in the darkness. I concede that this isn't the way he's going to be going forward, and I have to accept that

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Old 07-18-2018, 05:43 AM   #944
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

I doubt they even acknowledge the toys in Reeves film.

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Old 07-18-2018, 05:46 AM   #945
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

Maybe that action figure isn't an official toy, but an internet thing. I can imagine some private person making those and selling them online. I can also imagine kids buying them, even if they portray a murderous vigilante*. Kids are weird.

* I hate that Batman of DCEU is that. No matter how many good Wonder Woman or Aquaman movies we get, that's going to hold me back from truly enjoying the universe.

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Old 07-18-2018, 06:03 AM   #946
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Originally Posted by m1ll3r View Post
Raised this in Shazam thread, but worth discussing here too, I think. This picture is from Shazam:



...so Shazam is in the DCEU. This means the ‘real’ Batman has had toys made of him.

Matt Reeves’s Batman movie is also supposed to be in the DCEU according to many, including Reeves on Twitter.

So, Reeves’s Batman movie will feature a Batman who has toys and merchandise on toy store shelves in America.

How does this strike you?
Batman used to be sane?

I don't know what to think anymore. BvS broke a lot of minds with how inconsistent smart it is with a wanted murdered having an active searchlight assigned to summon him on the roof of the building of the establishment that chase him, and then we see Batman fully armored later with guns ready in a warehouse using his searchlight on the GCPD building to summon Superman.

Too much brilliance, it overwhelms my simple Saturday morning Marvel loving mind.

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Old 07-18-2018, 06:55 AM   #947
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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I doubt they even acknowledge the toys in Reeves film.
Probably. But this rather indicates a continuing issue of DCEU films not thinking about how their narratives affect future movies. I had hoped they’d learned the lessons of this with the Snyder movies, but apparently not. If you’re creating a shared, ongoing universe, every decision made has to be taken in that context, and every decision made has a knock on effect.

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Maybe that action figure isn't an official toy, but an internet thing. I can imagine some private person making those and selling them online. I can also imagine kids buying them, even if they portray a murderous vigilante*. Kids are weird.

* I hate that Batman of DCEU is that. No matter how many good Wonder Woman or Aquaman movies we get, that's going to hold me back from truly enjoying the universe.
Possibly, but it looks like a very professional piece of merchandise to me, and then there’s the accurate batarang. And the Aquaman t-shirt, and the Superman merch. All gives the impression that the Justice League are major celebrities with a huge fan following. Fine for most of them, but a little problematic for Batman, I believe.

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:14 AM   #948
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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Probably. But this rather indicates a continuing issue of DCEU films not thinking about how their narratives affect future movies. I had hoped they’d learned the lessons of this with the Snyder movies, but apparently not. If you’re creating a shared, ongoing universe, every decision made has to be taken in that context, and every decision made has a knock on effect.



Possibly, but it looks like a very professional piece of merchandise to me, and then there’s the accurate batarang. And the Aquaman t-shirt, and the Superman merch. All gives the impression that the Justice League are major celebrities with a huge fan following. Fine for most of them, but a little problematic for Batman, I believe.
But if Shazam is to take place post-Justice League, then the public perception of Batman would change, as well. Just look at Avengers, after the battle of NY, we saw Hulk fans in the movie. The Matt Reeves movie could be a prequel where Batman is not a celebrity like that, but in a world where everyone loves the JL, it makes little to sense to be like "Yay, Justice League. Except Batman. He sucks." Much like Hulk though, people could turn on Batman fast.

The DCEU has made many mistakes, but I think conceptually this makes sense.

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:37 AM   #949
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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But if Shazam is to take place post-Justice League, then the public perception of Batman would change, as well. Just look at Avengers, after the battle of NY, we saw Hulk fans in the movie. The Matt Reeves movie could be a prequel where Batman is not a celebrity like that, but in a world where everyone loves the JL, it makes little to sense to be like "Yay, Justice League. Except Batman. He sucks." Much like Hulk though, people could turn on Batman fast.

The DCEU has made many mistakes, but I think conceptually this makes sense.
I don't necessarily disagree with you on that point. My issue is that not that it makes no sense, but rather than I'm very unsure it's the right direction to go in.

I guess if the Reeves's film is a prequel, it won't matter... but I'm not keen on that idea either, so I can't win either way!

Best I just accept that this iteration of these characters going forward is not what I want to see, and hope to get some enjoyment from it anyway.

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Old 07-18-2018, 07:40 AM   #950
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Default Re: Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

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I don't necessarily disagree with you on that point. My issue is that not that it makes no sense, but rather than I'm very unsure it's the right direction to go in.

I guess if the Reeves's film is a prequel, it won't matter... but I'm not keen on that idea either, so I can't win either way!

Best I just accept that this iteration of these characters going forward is not what I want to see, and hope to get some enjoyment from it anyway.
I honestly look at JL Batman almost as another character and I always have. I mean, it is hard for me to see Batman fighting Darkseid one day, and then believe the Riddler is a threat the next. I always felt Batman worked best as a solo character. They kind of have to exaggerate him to ridiculous extents to make him work in JL (like Batman can beat God with prep time type stuff). I was never really into Batman when he was like that.

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