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Old 09-13-2015, 02:26 AM   #776
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

Thanks I remember many Thor fans being happy here though.

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Old 09-13-2015, 07:05 PM   #777
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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Originally Posted by slumcat View Post
Having just seen the deleted scenes and heard what Whedon has to say, I think Hemsworth got a very bad deal. Whedon admits (like I previously predicted) that Thor is difficult to write for because he doesn't talk like people and specially difficult to write for in a grounded movie like Avengers. He says Hemsworth was very protective of the character and trying very hard not to be irrelevant. And Whedon said Hemsworth was very patient with him. So he wrote this scene entirely for him, this was supposed to be Hemsworth's big scene in the film - a 4 minute sequence entirely centered on Thor, giving Hemsworth extended dialog, infact more dialog than he had in the rest of the film combined. It also gave Thor something to do, as he himself comes up with this plan, sacrifices himself, learns something very important and goes and tells the team. And Hemsworth kills the scene as Whedon admits. It is kinda like a possession sequence like the one Cate Blanchett did in LOTR - a big show-offy actory scene. And like Whedon said - designed to give Hemsworth something cool to do and Hemsworth gives a great performance.

And what happens?

The scene gets cut!

They couldn't not show this scene because then it would be hard to explain why Thor disappears in the middle of the movie. So they had to reluctantly keep it, and just kept about 30 seconds of it. And the scene in the movie is terrible. I hated it when I saw it and thought it should have been cut. And most of the audience hated it.

But seeing the full sequence, it absolutely should have stayed in the film. The scene in the movie does not make sense at all. I was like what the hell is this cave? Why is Selvig here, what is the pond, why is this needed? And the full sequence explains everything and puts everything in context.

Whedon openly admits that he hates the fact that the scene isn't in the film. He said the film is a film of compromises and this is one of the biggest ones. You have to wonder how 3 minutes of extra time would have killed the film.

Again, it was a mistake to cut the scene. And rob Hemsworth of his one big scene and extended sequence in the film.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe Whedon was forced by the Studio to cut/reduce this scene.

Whedon mentioned in a interview after AOU had premiered that when the Studio Executives had seen a rough cut of the film, they didn't like the scenes with Hawkeye's Family (at the farm) and this one. So they tried to make him cut/reduce both scenes but Whedon didn't want to lose both of them so they made him choose which one he wanted to keep in tact and it ultimately ended up being Thor's scene.

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Old 09-13-2015, 10:42 PM   #778
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

Should have cut down the Farm bits. The Thor scene in the film conveys the information it needs to in a much more concise way that the longer drawn out version , but the truncated version leaves a lot of weird unexplained elements. Where is this cave? Why is Selvig there? Etc. Since that scene actually moves the plot along it should have take precedence over the Farm stuff.

Those farm scenes grind the film to a screeching halt. Those scenes could have been trimmed or the Farm bits could have been lost entirely. Giving Barton a family was just a lazy way to make the audience care about him.

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Old 09-14-2015, 12:17 AM   #779
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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If I'm not mistaken, I believe Whedon was forced by the Studio to cut/reduce this scene.

Whedon mentioned in a interview after AOU had premiered that when the Studio Executives had seen a rough cut of the film, they didn't like the scenes with Hawkeye's Family (at the farm) and this one. So they tried to make him cut/reduce both scenes but Whedon didn't want to lose both of them so they made him choose which one he wanted to keep in tact and it ultimately ended up being Thor's scene.
Yes he wanted it in but the studio wanted it out.

Whedon said he specially hated that it got caught because he had written it specially for Hemsworth. He also said that it was unfair that when the scene was tested, they tested it without putting in the effects or the voice modulation for Hemsworth. And that's totally understandable, without those things, its seems like Hemsworth is having a spasm, but the finished scene absolutely works. He said he could have made it work, but the studio cut it.

He says quite upfront in the commentary that this is a film of compromises.

But I do think that Hemsworth got a rough deal deal by this scene of all the scenes getting cut.

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Old 09-16-2015, 03:51 PM   #780
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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Originally Posted by Marvolo View Post
Should have cut down the Farm bits. The Thor scene in the film conveys the information it needs to in a much more concise way that the longer drawn out version , but the truncated version leaves a lot of weird unexplained elements. Where is this cave? Why is Selvig there? Etc. Since that scene actually moves the plot along it should have take precedence over the Farm stuff.

Those farm scenes grind the film to a screeching halt. Those scenes could have been trimmed or the Farm bits could have been lost entirely. Giving Barton a family was just a lazy way to make the audience care about him.
I couldn't agree more!

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Old 09-16-2015, 06:28 PM   #781
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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Originally Posted by Marvolo View Post
Should have cut down the Farm bits. The Thor scene in the film conveys the information it needs to in a much more concise way that the longer drawn out version , but the truncated version leaves a lot of weird unexplained elements. Where is this cave? Why is Selvig there? Etc. Since that scene actually moves the plot along it should have take precedence over the Farm stuff.

Those farm scenes grind the film to a screeching halt. Those scenes could have been trimmed or the Farm bits could have been lost entirely. Giving Barton a family was just a lazy way to make the audience care about him.
TOTALLY agree! The farm scenes could have been cut back ALOT and still made sense and give you feels for Clint.

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Old 09-17-2015, 12:03 PM   #782
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

For my part they could just have kept the farm as it is and the cave scene as the deleted version. I think the people forcing Whedon to cut one were wrong, probably biased by the reactions to a scene very dependent on the not yet done effects, and the movie's length would be very marginally affected.

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Old 09-17-2015, 03:29 PM   #783
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

I loved Those farm scenes, that's 100% Whedony stuff.

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Old 09-17-2015, 04:04 PM   #784
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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For my part they could just have kept the farm as it is and the cave scene as the deleted version. I think the people forcing Whedon to cut one were wrong, probably biased by the reactions to a scene very dependent on the not yet done effects, and the movie's length would be very marginally affected.
They didn't force him to cut the cave scenes. It was an editing and continuity issue not a time or either/or issue. Whedon explained in that Empire interview that no one thought the cave scenes worked, including him and early test audiences. The only ones that wanted it were reportedly Hemsworth's people.

Ideally they wanted to cut it all out but the problem was if they did that they'd have no explanation of where Thor was during the farm scenes after he left. One way to accomplish that would be to cut down the farm scenes and voila no continuity issues about Thor's whereabouts. That was the dilemma. Whedon wanted all the farm scenes so the compromise was to keep part of the cave scenes drastically edited down so that the full farm scenes could remain.

If Whedon says otherwise in the commentary then that's a different spin on the story he was telling before. Even after the release of the film he kept saying there were only about 2 minutes of film from bits and pieces he wouldn't have liked to have kept in the final cut that aren't there.


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Old 09-17-2015, 04:57 PM   #785
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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They didn't force him to cut the cave scenes. It was an editing and continuity issue not a time or either/or issue. Whedon explained in that Empire interview that no one thought the cave scenes worked, including him and early test audiences. The only ones that wanted it were reportedly Hemsworth's people.

Ideally they wanted to cut it all out but the problem was if they did that they'd have no explanation of where Thor was during the farm scenes after he left. One way to accomplish that would be to cut down the farm scenes and voila no continuity issues about Thor's whereabouts. That was the dilemma. Whedon wanted all the farm scenes so the compromise was to keep part of the cave scenes drastically edited down so that the full farm scenes could remain.

If Whedon says otherwise in the commentary then that's a different spin on the story he was telling before. Even after the release of the film he kept saying there were only about 2 minutes of film from bits and pieces he wouldn't have liked to have kept in the final cut that aren't there.
In that interview he said that the test audience didn't like it but pointed out that they saw the scene without any effects, which likely makes the scene weird or cheesy. II read it and didn't see him say that he didn't like it.

He also said that it came to a point where they figuratively put a gun to the farm scene and demanded that he gave up the cave. That makes no sense whatsoever if Whedon didn't want to keep the cave.

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Old 09-18-2015, 12:38 AM   #786
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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Originally Posted by TalismanRing View Post
They didn't force him to cut the cave scenes. It was an editing and continuity issue not a time or either/or issue. Whedon explained in that Empire interview that no one thought the cave scenes worked, including him and early test audiences. The only ones that wanted it were reportedly Hemsworth's people.

Ideally they wanted to cut it all out but the problem was if they did that they'd have no explanation of where Thor was during the farm scenes after he left. One way to accomplish that would be to cut down the farm scenes and voila no continuity issues about Thor's whereabouts. That was the dilemma. Whedon wanted all the farm scenes so the compromise was to keep part of the cave scenes drastically edited down so that the full farm scenes could remain.

If Whedon says otherwise in the commentary then that's a different spin on the story he was telling before. Even after the release of the film he kept saying there were only about 2 minutes of film from bits and pieces he wouldn't have liked to have kept in the final cut that aren't there.
I think the release of a film is not the time to air your grievances. In the commentary he says at the outset that this is a film of compromises and then throughout he remarks on a number of things he says he wished he had done differently. While he yet admits that it is his movie and he is proud, he is not above expressing reservations.

He clearly indicates that he hated seeing the cave scene go for all the reasons I stated above.

And it is absolutely understandable that Hemsworth's rep wanted the cave scene in - it is his only extended solo scene in the film where each of the other Avengers gets atleast one or a couple. It's his big scene, he's shirtless throughout, a kinda "physique glory" moment too for which he worked undoubtedly hard, plus lots of dialog, playing possessed and extensive interaction with a Thor alum - Skarsgard, to kinda give the sense that Thor's story is also evolving.

Whedon clearly stated that Hemsworth was fighting for Thor to not be irrelevant. And as I showed in my post, he ends up with the lowest screen-time after Vision.

So Hemsworth had a lot of interest in the scene being in, and Whedon too for much the same reasons because he loves Thor too but they cut it down.

I don't think the farm scene could have been cut - the farm scene is basically the central portion of the first avengers where everyone's just sitting and talking on the hellcarrier. It is the portion where the meat of the interpersonal relationships are established - Romonoff and Banner, Cap and Iron Man, Hawkeye and family, Iron Man and Fury - all of those bits were important and necessary otherwise this would be a film with no characters and character development.

I think the bad tests might have killed the scene. They previewed that scene like has been said without any visual or sound effects. Without that its just Hemsworth twisting and turning in the water and acting weird. The finished scene plays well. Whedon specifically says the he would have made the scene work had it been in, but it got cut.

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Old 09-18-2015, 06:19 AM   #787
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

I would have liked to have seen the scene also but I think the time Thor did have in the film was well spent. As a Thor fan I was happy with what happened with his screen time even if I wanted more.

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Old 09-18-2015, 07:45 AM   #788
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

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I would have liked to have seen the scene also but I think the time Thor did have in the film was well spent. As a Thor fan I was happy with what happened with his screen time even if I wanted more.

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Old 11-08-2015, 11:40 PM   #789
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

So all major characters in the MCU thus far have undergone fairly great changes in design from film-to-film. But one character whose changes I have never understood were Thor's: why does he sometimes have sleeves and other times not?

The changes in the suits of heroes like Ironman and Captain America make sense, as in that case it is all about upgrading and improving on the previous design. But Thor's ability to fight will almost always remain consistent as long as he has Mjolnir (right?), so why does he ditch the sleeves during the final battle of AoU?

In the first Avengers, he goes sleeveless until the final battle. So why does he avert this in AoU? Doesn't make sense

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Old 11-09-2015, 12:48 AM   #790
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

I think Whedon just prefers Thor without sleeves. Besides he looks way cooler that way. And the ladies can get to drool over him.

Also in some of the comics, he's sleevelss.

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Old 11-09-2015, 03:52 AM   #791
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

both 616 and Ulty Thor have sleeveless variations

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Old 11-09-2015, 03:55 AM   #792
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

Ulty Thor is mostly sleeveless though.

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Old 11-09-2015, 04:07 AM   #793
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

sometimes i wear a shirt with sleeves,

sometimes i don't.

if thor wants to do the same its fine by me

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Old 11-09-2015, 12:47 PM   #794
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Default Re: Ultron! We Would Have Words With Thee! Official Thor/Chris Hemworth Thread - Part

I personally think he looks better with the armoured sleeves, but it probably limits Hemsworth a tad when it comes to performing action scenes, as he seems to do more without them than with them. It's not a big deal though either way for me.

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