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Old 08-25-2013, 12:12 AM   #251
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

Batman hasn't killed anyone, or saved anyone, or done anything. The last trilogy never happened. This is a new Batman...in a world where Superman is a morally conflicted thief who kills his opponents if it makes things easier and thinks that it might be best to let innocent people die rather than save them.

I'm sure the Batman we get will be just as accurate as the Superman they gave us.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:13 AM   #252
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

he technically threw the joker off the building....

yes, I understand its a minor distinction, but still...

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:14 AM   #253
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He can just run around pushing all sorts of people off buildings and trains he destroys the controls for, and just choose not to save them.
Ra's destroyed the controls.

He never learned to mind his surroundings.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:15 AM   #254
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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Batman hasn't killed anyone, or saved anyone, or done anything. The last trilogy never happened. This is a new Batman...in a world where Superman is a morally conflicted thief who kills his opponents if it makes things easier and thinks that it might be best to let innocent people die rather than save them.

I'm sure the Batman we get will be just as accurate as the Superman they gave us.

I didn't like that Clark Kent stole clothes out back of someone's truck either....trivial part of the movie done for sole purpose of showing us how badass this new Superman is. Poor writing all around.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:17 AM   #255
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

Superman: My father told me as a young boy......that maybe...its ok...to let people die....

so when Zod and I were bashing each other around...I was just following his wisdom throughout Metropolis.


Stuff happens, Lois.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:25 AM   #256
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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Ra's destroyed the controls.

He never learned to mind his surroundings.
my mistake,
The editing was so funky I never could understand the scene.

What pray did was batman doing in that action, I don't remember.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:27 AM   #257
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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I didn't like that Clark Kent stole clothes out back of someone's truck either....trivial part of the movie done for sole purpose of showing us how badass this new Superman is. Poor writing all around.
not sure it was put there to show us how "badass" he is.
I thought that's what the neck snapping was for

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:28 AM   #258
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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Superman: My father told me as a young boy......that maybe...its ok...to let people die....

so when Zod and I were bashing each other around...I was just following his wisdom throughout Metropolis.


Stuff happens, Lois.
Exactly. I see so many people claim "he was new at this...he hadn't found his moral compass yet!" and that is a slap in the face of the characters.

Superman is a man of two worlds...his flight, strength and invulnerability are gifts from his Kryptonian parents (chance of birth, really). His super-goodness, his unerring will to do what is right, that is a gift given to him by his Earth parents. His Kryptonian birth made him the most powerful person on earth...but his Earth parents made him a HERO. He is only Superman because of THAT PARTICULAR couple.

By doing away with that and having a morally conflicted Clark who steals and kills when needed, you are doing away with vital elements that make him the best hero ever created. By making him cool and edgy, you've made him just like everyone else.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:28 AM   #259
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

I saw it as desperation. His pants were ripped, and he needed some way of disguising himself so that people wouldn't ask questions.

Though I'd like it if the guy were compensated. That would be a nice 30 second gag in the sequel, or something.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:30 AM   #260
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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Superman: My father told me as a young boy......that maybe...its ok...to let people die....
It's almost biblic

I wonder why Superman hasn't ended world hunger yet, seems like the decent thing to do. Damn that Pa kent and his gray look at morality

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:32 AM   #261
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Exactly. I see so many people claim "he was new at this...he hadn't found his moral compass yet!" and that is a slap in the face of the characters.

Superman is a man of two worlds...his flight, strength and invulnerability are gifts from his Kryptonian parents (chance of birth, really). His super-goodness, his unerring will to do what is right, that is a gift given to him by his Earth parents. His Kryptonian birth made him the most powerful person on earth...but his Earth parents made him a HERO. He is only Superman because of THAT PARTICULAR couple.

By doing away with that and having a morally conflicted Clark who steals and kills when needed, you are doing away with vital elements that make him the best hero ever created. By making him cool and edgy, you've made him just like everyone else.
I guess what I can take away is that he shouldn't NEED to do those things.
I agree, because his morality is more circumstantial than willful.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:32 AM   #262
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not sure it was put there to show us how "badass" he is.
I thought that's what the neck snapping was for

the stealing was preview/foreshadowing that was growing and battering us over the head until IMO anti-climatic neck snap. it was disgusting to watch...but not shocking given all Clark's coldness to others and the 9/11 destuction that was happening.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:33 AM   #263
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

This clothes issue reminds me of when people moaned about "Batman" putting a hobo in harms way by letting him wear bruce waynes coat.

Batman? Say it ain't so lol.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:34 AM   #264
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I guess what I can take away is that he shouldn't NEED to do those things.
I agree, because his morality is more circumstantial than willful.
Nice correction of my post...because he really didn't need to steal. The best hero ever created could have found a way to not kill Zod.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:35 AM   #265
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

Yeah, he's so cold for saving these oil workers, the world, and submitting himself to the authority of the US government for the good of earth.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:39 AM   #266
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Nice correction of my post...because he really didn't need to steal. The best hero ever created could have found a way to not kill Zod.
Too bad he's not the best hero ever.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:42 AM   #267
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Too bad he's not the best hero ever.
But he should be...and that is the problem with Man of Steel. They wanted to bring him down to earth...make him more like us. Make him cool and dark. But that isn't Superman. Then again...this movie was written by the guy who wrote the comic where Superman renounced his American citizenship, so he apparently doesn't even like the character and had to create a new one that was more like Batman or Wolverine or whatever he was going for.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:43 AM   #268
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

Yeah, the best hero would have found out a way to stop a rampaging superpowered madman without the aids of a phantom zone, Kryptonite, magic, etc.

And he'd also fly away from the family and risk Zod escaping and killing more people.

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Old 08-25-2013, 12:43 AM   #269
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This clothes issue reminds me of when people moaned about "Batman" putting a hobo in harms way by letting him wear bruce waynes coat.

Batman? Say it ain't so lol.
how did he put the homeless guy in harms way? I don't remember scene clearly... but I thinkBruce was running away to somewhere he wouldn't need it or didn't want to remind him of his comfortable past...so he gave it to someone else. Nobody was planning on killing him (although he was threatened if he got too uppity)

That MOS stealing scene was completely unnecessary...at least have him ask somebody for clothes and they having mercy on him. or offering to work for clothes.

The little things count.

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Old 08-25-2013, 01:01 AM   #270
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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how did he put the homeless guy in harms way? I don't remember scene clearly... but I thinkBruce was running away to somewhere he wouldn't need it or didn't want to remind him of his comfortable past...so he gave it to someone else. Nobody was planning on killing him (although he was threatened if he got too uppity)
See for yourself.

Doesn't seem like a very "Batman" thing to do
Oh wait, that's not batman now is it. See how this works?

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That MOS stealing scene was completely unnecessary...at least have him ask somebody for clothes and they having mercy on him. or offering to work for clothes.

The little things count.
When you have a nit picky crowd they do.
This scene was about a drifter, not Superman.

Remember in the original superman movie when clark showed off to the football team and raced them home? That doesn't seem like a very "Superman" thing to do? You now why? Cause that wasn't superman!

This is the biggest issue I find with detractors.

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Old 08-25-2013, 01:06 AM   #271
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Default Re: Is Batman justified when he refuses to kill? Do you wish he was more like Superma

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Yeah, the best hero would have found out a way to stop a rampaging superpowered madman without the aids of a phantom zone, Kryptonite, magic, etc.

And he'd also fly away from the family and risk Zod escaping and killing more people.
And saved at least a dozen kittens.

Superman saved the oil workers, technically the Coast Guard helicopter crew (and the oil workers again), the bus full of kids, Lois, his mother, Lois (again), a fighter pilot, the guy falling out of the helicopter, Harding, Lois, and everyone and everything on the planet, and then that family of four.

But I guess that's just not enough for some people. We have to ***** that Superman took some clothes and killed someone who had proven that he didn't give a damn about life. Zod was actively trying to destroy an entire family when Superman killed him. Not like he was pointing a gun at them, or threatening them with a bomb, but a more immediate danger. There was no way to disarm Zod, and if Superman shifted position even a little, either to cover Zod's eyes or to try to fly off with him, Zod would have slipped free.

But I guess if Superman had just buried Zod in a ton of ice, or thrown him into space without a helmet, or dumped him on an abandoned planet to die a slow death, it would have been fine.

What nonsense.

Putting people in a dangerous situation, or abandoning them to a dangerous situation like Batman has does not give him a free pass on his 'no killing' idiocy. Being a passive participant in someone's death is worse, in my opinion, because that means there was literally another choice or route he could have taken, and he chose death for that person.

Superman killing has always been in the most desperate and grave of times. Batman has killed in desperate and grave times.

Both the guys are flawed in their own ways.

Speaking of flaws, I've never been able to figure out why Bruce doesn't use his genius and his money to build a better prison, and to maybe, I don't know, fund more research for the criminally insane. It seems like he'd have at least one or two less problems if he did something other than dress up like a rodent and beat insane people up all the time.

Just sayin'....

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Old 08-25-2013, 01:12 AM   #272
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But he should be...and that is the problem with Man of Steel. They wanted to bring him down to earth...
No he shouldn't. That's the triumph of Man of Steel. It's just like Batman year one. He's not perfect. The producers figured out a way to make superman something other than a character the general audience sees as distant, un-engaging and infallible. Start him from the beginning.

Though I gotta admit he was pretty stupid/selfish and fallible in the donnerverse, but they achieved that by just literally making him stupid/selfish and fallible(see most of Superman 2).

Wanna know something else

Sometimes even superman needs help. If this enemy attacked earth on superman's first day I'm pretty sure there would be casualties like you wouldn't believe. And that's the point. Superman wasn't always "the greatest"

and did he just murder another villain? that was a pretty great line he used at the end there, I hope goyer get's wise lol

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Old 08-25-2013, 01:15 AM   #273
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See for yourself.

Doesn't seem like a very "Batman" thing to do
Oh wait, that's not batman now is it. See how this works?


When you have a nit picky crowd they do.
This scene was about a drifter, not Superman.

Remember in the original superman movie when clark showed off to the football team and raced them home? That doesn't seem like a very "Superman" thing to do? You now why? Cause that wasn't superman!

This is the biggest issue I find with detractors.
young Bruce Wayne has always been a sketchy character, but in that scene he pays the guy for his coat...then offers his own and tells him people are looking for him. He really could have just burnt the coat after giving him his money for his coat. It's up to the homeless guy what to do with that warning. I don't have a huge problem with that scene, although I guess it could have been written out since its purpose is to have Batman say "nice coat."

Clark Kent steals someone's clothes. Period. He could have asked...but I guess he had no faith in human goodness and compassion back then....or really any
point of the movie.

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Old 08-25-2013, 01:18 AM   #274
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And saved at least a dozen kittens.

Superman saved the oil workers, technically the Coast Guard helicopter crew (and the oil workers again), the bus full of kids, Lois, his mother, Lois (again), a fighter pilot, the guy falling out of the helicopter, Harding, Lois, and everyone and everything on the planet, and then that family of four.
He saved most people on planet, but not everyone...thousands of people had to have died when General Zod invasion/9-11 was happening

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Old 08-25-2013, 01:26 AM   #275
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Though I gotta admit he was pretty stupid/selfish and fallible in the donnerverse
Yeah, In Superman 2 he not only dropped a powerless Zod down a bottomless pit and smiled about it, but he abused his superpowers by getting revenge and hospitalizing the trucker who beat him up earlier. In Man Of Steel Clark get's bullied by a trucker and all he does is take his anger out on the guy's truck, but no, the Man of Steel version isn't true to the character, right guys?

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