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Old 05-24-2015, 07:52 PM   #551
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Default Re: Crossbones

I had read/heard that Zemo was to play a minor role in CW, but a much larger one
in Dr. Strange. Anyone else read/hear that one?

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Old 05-25-2015, 09:26 AM   #552
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Default Re: Crossbones

Nope, that doesn't make any sense. Zemo isn't even a Strange villain.

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:05 AM   #553
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Nope, that doesn't make any sense. Zemo isn't even a Strange villain.
OK, so I did a little googling: http://variety.com/2014/film/news/ca...in-1201356810/

So it's out there, or was as of this article, that he's minor in CA, but has a larger role in Strange. Variety is a credible source, but things could turn out different or it could be misdirection.

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:17 AM   #554
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Default Re: Crossbones

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Exactly.

The problem with having hero v. hero in the climax is that neither side wins. I don't believe Marvel is going to risk a climax where things come to a draw. Instead, they unite against a threat they can beat only together, but without resolving their differences. Friendships are still destroyed, Cap is still dead/retired, Tony is also likely retired, and the S.R.A. is hopefully still in place. This way, the good guys can still "win" against the bad guy, but without it coming off as a cliche "put aside our differences and hold hands in a circle singing Kumbaya".
Plus, there is little stakes in good guys vs good guys. Even if they're fighting, some good guy will win.

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:18 AM   #555
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Default Re: Crossbones

Variety is credible but here I think they screwed up trying to break the story and got their potential Baron villains mixed up. Zemo vs Mordo.

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:28 AM   #556
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Default Re: Crossbones

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Exactly.

The problem with having hero v. hero in the climax is that neither side wins. I don't believe Marvel is going to risk a climax where things come to a draw. Instead, they unite against a threat they can beat only together, but without resolving their differences. Friendships are still destroyed, Cap is still dead/retired, Tony is also likely retired, and the S.R.A. is hopefully still in place. This way, the good guys can still "win" against the bad guy, but without it coming off as a cliche "put aside our differences and hold hands in a circle singing Kumbaya".
Why not make it like Winter Soldier where they fight but then slowly realize their differences and how they can solve them? Maybe Zemo has a bomb that is going to go off in the city or something (after his defeat), and the heroes have a huge battle in light of their differences, at which point at the finale of their fight they realize that they must get rid of the bomb together? Zemo himself doesn't need to be the threat, not to mention how overused that concept would be by the film's release.

In this scenario, the more aggressive faction would be trying to destroy the other while the more peaceful faction would be trying to disarm the bomb, while fighting back whenever they are attacked. Just like the final fight between Steve vs Bucky but on a larger and much more epic scale

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Would anyone be opposed to the idea of Zeno being a more political figure more in the vain of Alexander pierce but with a dash or redskull and Justin hammer thrown in. Real charismatic and goal oriented. And the climax battle would be against Zemo and his masters of evil except instead it's the pro reg avengers that have been manipulated into thinking they're fighting for the right side? That would be kind of a fresh take on it.
I would much prefer that than have him do the fighting himself, especially if the climax was still in the vein of Pro-Reg vs Anti-Reg

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Old 05-25-2015, 10:45 AM   #557
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Default Re: Crossbones

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Variety is credible but here I think they screwed up trying to break the story and got their potential Baron villains mixed up. Zemo vs Mordo.
Credible sources mix things up all the time. Most people have never touched a comic in their life, so save for iconic and well known characters like Batman and Superman, most journalists get their info from quick google searches. So I can see how someone without a knowledge of the source material would mix up Zemo and Mordo and then claim "BTW rumors are the new CW villain will also be in Doctor Strange!"

See also: all the news outlets that claimed Paul Rudd would be playing "Hank Pym, a genius inventor who creates special particles that allow him to shrink."

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Old 05-26-2015, 11:46 AM   #558
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Default Re: Crossbones

As cool as it is to see Baron Zemo in a movie finally, and it is, I did have one caveat with him being in THIS movie. Given the already huge number of "named" characters, the fact that the main conflict is between Steve and Tony, and Marvel's previous track record with a lot of their film villains, I fear that Zemo will just be yet another two-dimensional/generic "bad guy." And when he's written well, Zemo is more than that, he's actually a pretty interesting character.

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Old 05-26-2015, 08:36 PM   #559
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I would rather him be more Alexander Pierce-esque where he is a largely non-action antagonist with great character development (one who is a terrific leader but utilizes lackeys for the dirty work, just like Pierce did in Winter Soldier).

But this is mainly just a daydream due to how disappointed I am in Rumlow's likely minuscule role and how Zemo would otherwise be almost identical to Red Skull in terms of characterization and overall "feel". And then, regardless of the size of HIS role in the film, the real plot would be Pro-Reg vs Anti-Reg.

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Old 05-27-2015, 11:13 AM   #560
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That's sort of the trap that a movie like this falls into. They likely want an actual villain so that they can avoid painting one side of the debate as "the bad ones." They know that all of these characters, especially Cap and Tony, have fans and don't want to tick off a big chunk of their fanbase if possible. But because "hero vs. hero" IS the main premise, any villain that they do choose is likely going to suffer in terms of both screentime and development.

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Old 05-27-2015, 02:25 PM   #561
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^Well that won't be too awful as long as the main conflict is not with said villain. If they are very minor, then they don't need great characterization.

And I just found this on Instagram. Thoughts???:

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Old 05-28-2015, 11:14 AM   #562
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Default Re: Crossbones

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Masters of Evil would be great. Abomination, Zemo, Yellowjacket, Crossbones, Batroc, perhaps even a revived Redskull. Whiplash isn't dead either so he's a possibility.

I too am expecting the climax to be hero vs hero. It just makes sense with the Civil War title.
Nice list maybe include Klaw, Absorbing Man & Rhino to the list.

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Old 05-28-2015, 11:44 AM   #563
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Default Re: Crossbones

Whiplash isn't dead?
need to rewatch IM2 then...

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Old 05-28-2015, 01:10 PM   #564
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Default Re: Crossbones

Who said that?

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Old 05-28-2015, 01:24 PM   #565
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To reiterate, nobody said he isn't dead, but Rourke said they intentionally shot that ending to make it ambiguous in case they wanted to bring him back:

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Well, the only thing I can tell you is that they had decided to kill me and we did film it with Gwyneth Paltrow. And then they came to New Mexico and re-shot it and now it’s left up in the air…
http: //www. comicbook movie.com/fansites/joshw24/news/?a=16013

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Old 05-28-2015, 01:27 PM   #566
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Default Re: Crossbones

Yeah the climax HAS to be hero vs hero. Thats the point, isn't it? Otherwise it'll be like Age of Ultron except an actual fight between Cap and Tony in the middle. No it has to get worse between them as it gets closer to the end.

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Old 05-28-2015, 02:01 PM   #567
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I predict that Steve and Tony will fight ONE TIME in the middle of the film and then realize each other's errors and become friends just like that so that they can take down Zemo, thus pissing off all the fans because the "Civil War" part of the story was cheated XD. That is probably what is going to unfortunately happen, just because at least one major and focal plot piece of every action film nowadays seems to be given the ASM2 Goblin Treatment (being hyped up but then ultimately becoming a very small part of the story).

Even though I do agree with you fully, Great Mind(s)! Plus, it would be a new idea having the main plot thread be the hero vs hero factor (whereas in past Marvel movies, this sort of tension between former allies was very minor, such as in Spiderman 3 and Ironman 2)

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Old 05-30-2015, 10:36 PM   #568
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Default Re: Crossbones

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Yeah the climax HAS to be hero vs hero. Thats the point, isn't it? Otherwise it'll be like Age of Ultron except an actual fight between Cap and Tony in the middle. No it has to get worse between them as it gets closer to the end.

Agreed. Hero vs hero as a climax would be different and refreshing to see.

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Old 05-30-2015, 11:53 PM   #569
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Thank you!! Finally someone agrees with me!

There is so much potential in this hero vs hero concept; don't fail us, Marvel!

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Old 05-31-2015, 04:50 PM   #570
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So true, because apart from Loki MCU villains have been terrible to meh. Although, Grillo as Brock did show some intensity in that launch stand-off scene so I can just imagine his Crossbones just bringing it to a higher level in CW. And I've seen Bruhl in many movies, but not sure he can do menacing villain unless he goes all Heath Ledger on us.

Anyway, nearly all of MCU heroes have been great compared to their villains, so heroes vs heroes would be a good spin.

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Old 05-31-2015, 05:23 PM   #571
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*cough*Pierce, Bucky, Ultron?*cough*

Those guys were excellent villains in my eyes.

But anyway, yea that is one factor that worries me: how well the antagonists are executed assuming that the hero vs hero thing doesn't make it very far into the movie. I don't want some only moderately-strong, overdone "take over the world" villain. But if the villains are only minor, then I would honestly be indifferent as to how they are developed

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Old 05-31-2015, 09:00 PM   #572
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TWS's more of an anti-hero in a way since he's brainwashed.

Ultron was good in the trailers, but in the movie he wasn't menacing or terrifying and ended up being a Stark Version 2.0 and the moving lips looked off. Pierce was meh and so bland.

IMO.

Like I said, Crossbones will bring the needed intensity.

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Old 06-05-2015, 01:30 PM   #573
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Default Re: Crossbones

Crossbones art concept art

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Old 06-05-2015, 01:42 PM   #574
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Default Re: Crossbones

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TWS's more of an anti-hero in a way since he's brainwashed.

Ultron was good in the trailers, but in the movie he wasn't menacing or terrifying and ended up being a Stark Version 2.0 and the moving lips looked off. Pierce was meh and so bland.

IMO.

Like I said, Crossbones will bring the needed intensity.
Crossbones for all his delusions of grandeur is just muscle. Muscle that got his butt kicked like the other dozen guys in the same elevator with less effort than it took Cap to take down Batroc. No way was he scarier or more of an effective threat than Ultron or any other lead villain in the movies. He wasn't even a fraction as menacing as the Extremis muscle in IM3.

Bucky is a hero. TWS as controlled by HYDRA is a menacing scary villain. TWS un-brainwashed is an anti-hero.

Pierce was a very effective villain wonderfully played with Redford and scary because he could so easily be real.

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Old 06-05-2015, 02:42 PM   #575
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Default Re: Crossbones

Yeah I thought Pierce was great

and it's funny, cuz my favorite Crossbones moment in all of TWS was when Pierce told the scientists to wipe Winter Soldier and start over, and you could see just a little glimmer on Rumlow's face showing he was thinking "oh that's kinda f***ed up"

Even those badass, super evil villains are still human

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