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Old 08-26-2017, 09:50 PM   #576
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Originally Posted by jfurioso View Post
It could open with Madeleine dumping Bond. That would be interesting. I mean, once removing the action hero credentials, what virtues does Bond have for long term relationships?
I'd just prefer Madeleine to end up like 90% of Bond girls. Forgotten by the beginning of the new movie

Kara- Maybe Bond helped her get into a nice job somewhere she can play her cello.

Pam Bouvier- Back to the CIA no doubt

Natalya- Probably a quiet job somewhere in Russia

Wai Lin? Back to work for the Chinese goverment

Christmas? Nuclear Scientist. She can go anywhere.

These are all examples

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Old 08-26-2017, 09:54 PM   #577
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

Yeah the prospect of a Bond girl coming back in the next movie doesn't interest me. A new Bond girl is part of what makes every Bond movie an event for me. Like the new villain. New locales. Etc.

Unless it was like a planned trilogy of films that lead into each other preferably by Nolan. Then I might be interested in that.

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Old 08-26-2017, 10:01 PM   #578
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

Once again, the idea of Bond being in love with Madeleine was the height of absurdity. When she said that she loved him, I was like "what the hell?"

I definitely get that Bond wanted to protect and felt an obligation to do so. But starting a long-term relationship just seemed unbelievable.

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Old 08-26-2017, 10:06 PM   #579
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Once again, the idea of Bond being in love with Madeleine was the height of absurdity. When she said that she loved him, I was like "what the hell?"
Oof yeah, that was a cringey line. One of the most forced things in the movie.

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Old 08-26-2017, 10:06 PM   #580
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

I didn't buy it either. Tracy, yes. Vesper, yes. Madeleine, no.

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Old 08-26-2017, 10:09 PM   #581
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

That is a failure of the movie, which wanted to be OHMSS, while not being OHMSS.

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Old 08-26-2017, 10:32 PM   #582
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

I get that some people didn't like Spectre and would prefer they jettison everything about that film (including Craig as Bond), but that seems to me to be throwing out the baby out with the bath water. EON didn't spend years in a bitter legal feud over the rights to SPECTRE and Ernst Stavro Blofeld to just ditch them after one divisive film, especially not when they're clearly trying to adapt the Ian Fleming material that they never got the chance to fully cover back in the original continuity.

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Old 08-26-2017, 10:35 PM   #583
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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I get that some people didn't like Spectre and would prefer they jettison everything about that film, but that seems to me to be throwing out the baby out with the bath water. EON didn't spend years in a bitter legal feud over the rights to SPECTRE and Ernst Stavro Blofeld to just ditch them after one divisive film, especially not when they're clearly trying to adapt the Ian Fleming material that they never got the chance to fully cover back in the original continuity.
As someone who doesn't like SPECTRE, I completely agree.

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Old 08-26-2017, 11:03 PM   #584
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

I definitely want Blofeld back. My favorite Bond films overall remain the original five Connery films where SPECTRE was in all but one movie.

And I still think despite its faults, Spectre isn't that bad. Certainly not in the lower tier of Bond films. QoS bugs me far more.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:01 AM   #585
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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I get that some people didn't like Spectre and would prefer they jettison everything about that film (including Craig as Bond), but that seems to me to be throwing out the baby out with the bath water. EON didn't spend years in a bitter legal feud over the rights to SPECTRE and Ernst Stavro Blofeld to just ditch them after one divisive film, especially not when they're clearly trying to adapt the Ian Fleming material that they never got the chance to fully cover back in the original continuity.
Craig is my favorite Bond, and I don't want any of that at all. I definitely want Waltz back as Blofeld as well. But I also want some progression and move away from the things that didn't work about Spectre. The Madeleine relationship is one of them.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:27 AM   #586
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Craig is my favorite Bond, and I don't want any of that at all. I definitely want Waltz back as Blofeld as well. But I also want some progression and move away from the things that didn't work about Spectre. The Madeleine relationship is one of them.
A lot of people would say that Waltz as Blofeld was handled even worse than Madeleine and both suffered from Spectre's troubled production and the constant rewrites. But given the patience and time they're taking to develop this film I believe both can improved greatly.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:30 AM   #587
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

Waltz is one of the best character actors on the planet, and I believe he can play a great Blofeld. He was just poorly utilized in this film. The potential is there. That character can be salvaged especially with the way things ended with him in Spectre. Also, it wasn't like he was as revolting as Eisenberg as Lex Luthor, a case of unconventional casting that didn't work. Waltz as Blofeld is inspired casting, and I didn't find his performance terrible at all. I just think, it was the writing that wasn't working.

I'm not sure how you salvage or improve the Madeleine relationship.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:36 AM   #588
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

SPECTRE needed at least tow more rewrites. One that specifically worked on the relationship between Bond and Madeleine and another Waltz's plan. Someone with some brains would have realized how dumb it was to connect Skyfall to the situation.

Madeleine is an odd after thought in a movie where she was so important. Unlike Vesper.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:41 AM   #589
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker View Post
SPECTRE needed at least tow more rewrites. One that specifically worked on the relationship between Bond and Madeleine and another Waltz's plan. Someone with some brains would have realized how dumb it was to connect Skyfall to the situation.

Madeleine is an odd after thought in a movie where she was so important. Unlike Vesper.
Agreed.

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:52 AM   #590
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

I'd love to see Felix again.

I'm sure Jeffrey Wright can squeeze it into his schedule

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Old 08-27-2017, 12:53 AM   #591
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

And all this talk about Idris Elba being Bond, why not simply cast him as a villain? More intriguing for him to play IMO especially as he's like 45 now and probably 50 when a reboot would begin.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:01 AM   #592
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

People have gotten it into their heads a black actor should be cast as James Bond, so they can pat themselves on the back for being progressive and racially sensitive and Idris Elba is the first prominent British African actor that comes to mind since he's played cool and badass characters before.

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I'd love to see Felix again.

I'm sure Jeffrey Wright can squeeze it into his schedule
Yes to the return of Felix.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:11 AM   #593
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Originally Posted by TheVileOne View Post
Waltz is one of the best character actors on the planet, and I believe he can play a great Blofeld. He was just poorly utilized in this film. The potential is there. That character can be salvaged especially with the way things ended with him in Spectre. Also, it wasn't like he was as revolting as Eisenberg as Lex Luthor, a case of unconventional casting that didn't work. Waltz as Blofeld is inspired casting, and I didn't find his performance terrible at all. I just think, it was the writing that wasn't working.

I'm not sure how you salvage or improve the Madeleine relationship.
I don't see how what you said about Blofeld and Waltz can't apply to Madeleine and Seydoux. Both were underwritten, both are performed by talented actors and both can be improved with better writing and direction in the sequel.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:25 AM   #594
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

Blofeld's a classic, iconic Bond villain. Madeleine is just Madeleine. She's a dime a dozen as far as love interests go.

But hey, the producers and writers are welcome to prove me wrong. But I'd bet dollars to donuts she's forgotten in Bond 25.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:30 AM   #595
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

Well it wouldn't be the first time you've been wrong.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:41 AM   #596
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Well it wouldn't be the first time you've been wrong.
That's just the prediction I'm making now. If it's wrong, so be it.

Many were predicting Craig wasn't coming back for this movie. Some people were actually betting money on it. And they were wrong.

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Old 08-27-2017, 01:50 AM   #597
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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That's just the prediction I'm making now. If it's wrong, so be it.

Many were predicting Craig wasn't coming back for this movie. Some people were actually betting money on it. And they were wrong.
With a lot of the Craig stuff, felt to me like a holdover from the people who originally didn't like him in the role in the first place. Even with those comments he made coming out of Spectre, he was pretty quick to explain himself a bit and leave it more open for his return.

Plus, it seemed like a lot of casual fans in the media were trying to push the notion of having Elba or Hiddleston for the sake of novelty more than anything else.

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Old 08-27-2017, 05:52 AM   #598
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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I'd love to see Felix again.

I'm sure Jeffrey Wright can squeeze it into his schedule
He's not only the best Felix Leiter by a mile but I thought he was one of the best things about the Daniel Craig era. The scenes between them are great - a combination of mistrust and suspicion, and the camaraderie of old friends.

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Old 08-27-2017, 09:41 AM   #599
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

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Blofeld's a classic, iconic Bond villain. Madeleine is just Madeleine. She's a dime a dozen as far as love interests go.

But hey, the producers and writers are welcome to prove me wrong. But I'd bet dollars to donuts she's forgotten in Bond 25.
Swan's issue was they did nothing to separate her from the other Bond Girl also-rans in Craig's tenure. Vesper Lynd and Camille were memorable change-ups from the usual expendable women, which is why the former still kind of defines this Bond's love life and why the latter is probably the best part of QOS. In comparison to those two ladies Madeline's extremely vanilla (pun intended), with her one standout trait being her backstory and reluctance to use guns.

Which is a shame, because Mr. White uses some of his last monologue to hype her up. He says she's smart, hard to find... And then literally Bond's next scene he's found her clinic with Hinx right behind. I was thinking she'd turn out to be some infiltration expert from Quantum who knew the game like Bond did, though maybe not as a "License to Kill" agent. You can use that to make her standout and make her romance with Bond mean something new, even if it's just two cynical special agents with a fondness for each other.

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Old 08-27-2017, 02:27 PM   #600
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Default Re: Bond 25 - Part 1

Blofeld and Madeleine were both pretty weak elements of SPECTRE imo.

To be fair, the series has struggled with the casting of the Blofeld character since YOLT with Telly Savalas being the best Blofeld imo. Frankly , the character has worked best imo as the puppet master pulling the strings behind the scenes more than as someone who Bond gets in a face to face punch up with.

Even then, I prefer the more imposing adversary of Telly Savalas 's version than the physically weaker version. I would have preferred someone who was closer to a mirror of Craig or someone as dynamic. Someone like Russell Crowe or even Michael Fassbender.

Madeleine was vanilla as someone else stated. She also needed to be more dynamic and really give Craig's Bond a run for his money.

I actually hope the next film is more like Skyfall as opposed to tieing up every loose end from SPECTRE and trying to tie it back to the earlier Craig films. Have it be its own story.

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