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Old 07-31-2016, 10:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Haven't seen it yet but it seems unanimouus that everyone thinks that the first part of the movie is bad.

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Old 07-31-2016, 11:10 AM   #27
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Under the red hood was the best.
My favorite, too

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Old 07-31-2016, 01:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Under the red hood was the best.


Can't wait to grab this on tuesday

Under The Red Hood was great but that's still second for me under TDKR.

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Old 08-01-2016, 12:15 AM   #29
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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My favorite, too

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Old 08-01-2016, 12:43 AM   #30
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I never considered the idea that the story ended with Batman killing the Joker until hearing Grant Morrison talk about it. But the ending to this seemed to play into it a little by having Joker's laughter fade out and leaving Batman as the only one laughing in the last moments.

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Old 08-01-2016, 04:53 AM   #31
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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I never considered the idea that the story ended with Batman killing the Joker until hearing Grant Morrison talk about it. But the ending to this seemed to play into it a little by having Joker's laughter fade out and leaving Batman as the only one laughing in the last moments.
Dude !

Haven't seen the KJ film, and I bought KJ when it first came out back in the day - and I always felt there was something lacking about it.

I too have heard Morrison's interpretation - and I'm totally on board (even if he's just messing with us).

Because if Morrison is right, then that elevates KJ to possibly the best Batman story ever - that one simple event (Bats killing Joker) changes the entire meaning of the book. That even Batman has to acknowledge that at some point there is no hope and a final solution had to be reached - but also a realisation that while the Joker is crazy for having no principles and just causing chaos and misery, that Batman hanging on to principles no matter what the situation is equally crazy. I think Batman's act, snapping J's neck, is his sanity asserting itself.

It always struck me as manifestly wrong that after all the **** the Joker pulls in that story, that it ends with them laughing at a rather silly joke. If the animated film picks up on Morrison's interpretation, then I have to see it !

There are some great articles online about the debate over whether Morrison's interpretation is correct - a lot of folks feel it undermines the story, but me, I think it improves it and shows that even Batman has a breaking point, where enough is enough.

I suppose this will become one of the enduring debates of the Batman mythos.

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Old 08-01-2016, 05:25 AM   #32
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Movie was just ok. Not sure why this is rated R. I can name 6 or 7 of these DC animated films that are more mature than this film.

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Old 08-01-2016, 01:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Dude !

Haven't seen the KJ film, and I bought KJ when it first came out back in the day - and I always felt there was something lacking about it.

I too have heard Morrison's interpretation - and I'm totally on board (even if he's just messing with us).

Because if Morrison is right, then that elevates KJ to possibly the best Batman story ever - that one simple event (Bats killing Joker) changes the entire meaning of the book. That even Batman has to acknowledge that at some point there is no hope and a final solution had to be reached - but also a realisation that while the Joker is crazy for having no principles and just causing chaos and misery, that Batman hanging on to principles no matter what the situation is equally crazy. I think Batman's act, snapping J's neck, is his sanity asserting itself.

It always struck me as manifestly wrong that after all the **** the Joker pulls in that story, that it ends with them laughing at a rather silly joke. If the animated film picks up on Morrison's interpretation, then I have to see it !

There are some great articles online about the debate over whether Morrison's interpretation is correct - a lot of folks feel it undermines the story, but me, I think it improves it and shows that even Batman has a breaking point, where enough is enough.

I suppose this will become one of the enduring debates of the Batman mythos.
The fact that the ending is ambiguous, makes it so compelling.

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Old 08-01-2016, 03:21 PM   #34
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Question about the scene that gets hyped for shock value, moreso than the actual ideas behind it all:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

The idea behind this is that Gotham, the city manifested in the Joker, breaks Gordon completely right? The present in what Gordon endures from Joker, the future in what Joker's done to Gordon's offspring?


Based on what I've seen here - I think I'll stick with the actual comic as opposed to the cartoon. Having googled pages from the comic, I'd say that The Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum: Serious House on a Serious Earth, and The Dark Knight Returns are gonna end up being my definitive set of Batman stories.

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Old 08-01-2016, 03:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Bruce Wayne's already got the allure of being rich and handsome. On top of this, Barbara has the additional knowledge of him being an all around genuine 'bad dude' who's not to be messed with. I don't think it's realistic for her to not be attracted to him.

The fact that Batman gave in shows that he's still human with needs too.

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Old 08-01-2016, 08:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I found this interview/answer by Alan Moore on Good Reads about TKJ. Anybody read this?

"As with all of the work which I do not own, I’m afraid that I have no interest in either the original book, or in the apparently forthcoming cartoon version which I heard about a week or two ago. I have asked for my name to be removed from it, and for any monies accruing from it to be sent to the artist, which is my standard position with all of this...material. Actually, with The Killing Joke, I have never really liked it much as a work – although I of course remember Brian Bolland’s art as being absolutely beautiful – simply because I thought it was far too violent and sexualised a treatment for a simplistic comic book character like Batman and a regrettable misstep on my part. So, Pradeep, I have no interest in Batman, and thus any influence I may have had upon current portrayals of the character is pretty much lost on me. *And David, for the record, my intention at the end of that book was to have the two characters simply experiencing a brief moment of lucidity in their ongoing very weird and probably fatal relationship with each other, reaching a moment where they both perceive the hell that they are in, and can only laugh at their preposterous situation. A similar chuckle is shared by the doomed couple at the end of the remarkable Jim Thompson’s original novel, The Getaway.*"

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Old 08-01-2016, 09:02 PM   #37
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Hated the first 30 minutes, after that, it was a fantastic adaptation of the comic book. Almost word for word. Differences I noticed from the comic book version:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
- A Death In The Family takes place after this, not before.

- No Penguin cameo.

- We know what the cops said to "Jack Napier" when they told him the tragic news.

- The Joker intentionally jumped into the chemical vat.

- There's no courtroom scene.

- The average man speech has been cut.

- Batman doesn't fight and kill the carnival sideshow freaks.

- "I shot a defenseless girl. I terrorized an old man." lines are missing.

- We don't see police car headlights at the end.


I'm sure there were a few more changes to the main story, but that's I all remember.


Quote:
I never considered the idea that the story ended with Batman killing the Joker until hearing Grant Morrison talk about it. But the ending to this seemed to play into it a little by having Joker's laughter fade out and leaving Batman as the only one laughing in the last moments.
Batman fans are up in arms because "He would NEVER do that!", but let's recap:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman

You haven't been taken to the edge yet. The Abyss. The place where you don't care anymore. Where all hope dies.
(Animated Movie change.)

- Batman wanted to talk to The Joker to avoid the possible outcome. He had a feeling it was going to come to this after all their encounters.

- A picture from their first encounter is shown.

- The Joker made it personal by crippling Batgirl and torturing Commissioner Gordon.

- The Joker also murdered Jason Todd. (Animated movie change.)

- Batman caused The Joker to fall into the chemical vat.

- The Joker reveals in his speech that his intention was to make Batman go crazy.

- Batman gave The Joker one last chance by offering help, which was refused.

- Realizing The Joker wasn't going to change, Batman finally snapped by laughing with Joker.

- Batman puts his hands on The Joker right before it ends.

- Batman is the last one laughing. (Animated movie change.)

- The title of the story is "The Killing Joke"


You really think after ALL that, you expected Batman to show his arch rival mercy? When Gordon told Batman to bring him in by the book, IMO Batman was at the point of no return.

Besides, Batman capturing The Joker is the same old song and dance. BORING!

Batman killing Joker is controversial, more interesting, and more realistic.



That's what makes the ending so great. Regardless whether or not Batman didn't uphold of his code of honor,
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Joker broke him. He wins either way.


Last edited by Slushy; 08-01-2016 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 08-02-2016, 06:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Realistic. Heh.

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Old 08-02-2016, 01:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Watched it just now. I'll agree with most, the first half hour was boring. Could have done without the sex scene too. It really picked up once the adaptation truly began. Conroy was great as usual, but I think Hamill stole the show with this one.

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Old 08-02-2016, 01:55 PM   #40
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SHH! Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I picked up the Target Steelbook edition. Was thrown off that it doesn't have the Mark Hamill special feature that was shown in the Fathom Events screening.

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Old 08-02-2016, 04:32 PM   #41
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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I picked up the Target Steelbook edition. Was thrown off that it doesn't have the Mark Hamill special feature that was shown in the Fathom Events screening.
Same. I don't know why they didn't add that. I thought it was great.

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Old 08-02-2016, 06:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Seen it. Terrible. First half was painfully unnecessary, while also being both pandering and insulting to Barbara Gordon. The second half (the actual Killing Joke stuff) is poorly presented, with washed out visuals and tired voice performances from everyone.

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Old 08-02-2016, 06:59 PM   #43
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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I picked up the Target Steelbook edition. Was thrown off that it doesn't have the Mark Hamill special feature that was shown in the Fathom Events screening.
Probably something done just for that.

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Old 08-02-2016, 08:56 PM   #44
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I absolutely loved this film, if I was to rate 23/24 minute mark onwards it would be a 9/10. The Joker was frightening as hell. I'm just going to watch this from the 23/24 mark onwards from now on because that's where what you paid for really starts.

To those saying the characters sound slower, they're not as active and filled with life as they used to be - that's GREAT!

I would hate for them to come off exactly like they did in the TV series. This isn't that.

I always read this as an elseworlds tale that takes place towards the end of Batman and Joker. It's towards their retirement days. They've been in this for a while and it's pushed them both to this point. They can't go back to the ways of the past anymore and that's broken them. They can't keep doing this song and dance routine forever that they've done for years. So there needs to milage on them.

One thing Kevin Conroy said that I've noticed is when you're young - you talk really fast and as you get older, you slow down. That's just age showing itself. And here, as said - age is essential/critical to this story to me because this has always been a story about an older Batman and an older Joker not a story about them five years or even ten years into things, but much later than that.

To that end, they both pulled it off brilliantly as characters who have been through a lot, are at the end of their respective ropes, and can't keep doing this forever.


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Old 08-03-2016, 08:42 AM   #45
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I'll preface this by acknowledging to all I think The Killing Joke is one of the better Batman stories out there, so I was predisposed to like this translation of it. I, like others, was concerned about the additional material being front-loaded on to the story, and initially I did not think it added much to the story. But after thinking about it for a bit, I saw it actually highlights something that makes the story even creepier than it was in its original form.

Batman also uses Barbara Gordon to further his own ends. And while he is shown as feeling it more, he is not shown to feel enough shame at using her to stop. And by stories end, both extremists share a laugh over a joke only they will really understand.

This movie is not dark. It's a nightmare that exposes Batman's mania as much as the Joker's.

The animation is fair, though one wonders why none of the women have noses.

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Old 08-03-2016, 11:43 AM   #46
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

The deluxe edition of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns deserved a theatrical release more than this.

Rewatched it recently and forgot how good it was.

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Old 08-03-2016, 12:52 PM   #47
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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The deluxe edition of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns deserved a theatrical release more than this.

Rewatched it recently and forgot how good it was.
Batman: Year One is another I would have enjoyed seeing on the big screen.

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Old 08-03-2016, 05:22 PM   #48
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Watched TKJ, I have no beef with it. I mean the Barbara/Bruce thing was awkward when I heard it out of context, but Azzarello did a good job of building up to it in the actual film. Obviously the graphic novel portion played better than the prologue, but the latter wasn't at all detrimental to the source or the film as a whole. It was just superfluous fanservice for Batgirl fans which is alright with me.

3.5-4/5 for me. Not the crapfest fanboys are making it out to be, and would definitely be recieved better by casuals or people who haven't read TKJ.

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Old 08-03-2016, 05:24 PM   #49
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil View Post
Under the red hood was the best.
Loved Under the Red Hood! DiMaggio is one of my favorite Joker performances.

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Old 08-03-2016, 05:40 PM   #50
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I love Batman in this.

No human can stop him....he deserves to be one of the "meta humans"

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