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Old 08-03-2016, 05:42 PM   #51
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Let's not put all the blame at Timm's feet. Let's not forget Alan Burnett has a big thing for Bruce/Barbara as well.

I don't mind it... I just don't see how it make her a stronger/more interesting character. A more light-hearted Batman/Batgirl adventure in which she saves him (or something) would have endeared her to the audience and made us feel for her more down the line.

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Old 08-05-2016, 12:43 AM   #52
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Let's not put all the blame at Timm's feet. Let's not forget Alan Burnett has a big thing for Bruce/Barbara as well.

I don't mind it... I just don't see how it make her a stronger/more interesting character. A more light-hearted Batman/Batgirl adventure in which she saves him (or something) would have endeared her to the audience and made us feel for her more down the line.
Yeah, I'm not sure why they didn't do this. They even mentioned Gordon was unavailable because he was doing a Father/Daughter date or something. How hard would it have been to tie the first half w/ the Adventures of Batgirl to the Killing Joke? (She fights crime, saves the day)Batman tells her to take some time off because she deserves it. He goes to Arkham to talk to the Joker. On the way he hears that Gordon is spending the evening w/ his daughter. Batman goes into the cell and realizes the Joker is gone. Where is he? The killing Joke begins.

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Old 08-05-2016, 02:43 AM   #53
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

It's like i watched two completely different short films. Didn't like it. They didn't bother exploring the actual KILLING JOKE plot. They just took it as it is in the comic, but because the story is too brief they just added something completely irrelevant to make it long enough.

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Old 08-06-2016, 04:45 PM   #54
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I don't mind the Batman/Batgirl sex scene. Sure I don't "ship" them but I don't mind it considering I can buy an attraction between them. Heck it's in the DCAU anyway.

Which I really don't get the big deal in Batgirl's case either since she's in her early twenties based on the going to college part.

Of course you have a whole bunch of people (including the feminists) crying and all this stuff over it saying Batgirl was ruined and not a strong character, blah blah.

For me if they want the female characters to be up at the same playing filed as the boys then they to be allowed to act like them.

Also *chuckles then becomes serious* I find it ridiculous they have no problem pitching a fit over Bruce and Barbara sleeping together. But they didn't raise a voice over the Batman and Son movie which takes directly from the comics where despite being subtle it's very darn clear Talia rapes Bruce to get Damien.

Just think on that for a second of Talia rapes Batman but I guess just like Tarantula doing the same to Nightwing, nobody even cares. Because I'm guessing they are men and according to a court case in real life I read "He's a guy so he must have enjoyed it." Which is just wrong on several levels.

I'm getting off my soap box but my point is if anything they need to quit complaining about Batgirl and Bruce sleeping together willing and focus on the real problems such as Batman, Nightwing getting assaulted and nobody even blinks twice.

There's a real issue for them to raise their voices over instead of this little crying fest.

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Old 08-06-2016, 05:12 PM   #55
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Just watched this, and i have to say all the complaints about this are way over dramatic. The sex scene wasn't even a sex scene; she began undressing after they kissed, and then it happened off screen.

Although i agree the prologue could hve been done bettter overall, i thought it played well into the actual Kiling Joke story. The only thing i didn't like, was the ending. It wasn't nearly as dramatic as the comic book ending. It was goofy, and made Batman come off like an idiot, as opposed to snapping under the realization that the Joker would never change.

Overall, i liked it. The animation was fine despite the stills they released looking subpar.

8/10

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Old 08-06-2016, 06:22 PM   #56
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Just watched this, and i have to say all the complaints about this are way over dramatic. The sex scene wasn't even a sex scene; she began undressing after they kissed, and then it happened off screen.

Although i agree the prologue could hve been done bettter overall, i thought it played well into the actual Kiling Joke story. The only thing i didn't like, was the ending. It wasn't nearly as dramatic as the comic book ending. It was goofy, and made Batman come off like an idiot, as opposed to snapping under the realization that the Joker would never change.

Overall, i liked it. The animation was fine despite the stills they released looking subpar.

8/10
People are reacting negatively to the scene existing, and especially in context of a story that defines Barbara as a paraplegic, not at the level of graphic content actually in the scene.

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Old 08-08-2016, 09:23 AM   #57
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

the prologue is in line with the Killing Joke both tonally and in story. The problem people have with the prologue stems from the main Killing Joke story itself.

Alan Moore's depiction of Barbara, like mostly all Alan Moores depiction of women, goes against the years of other story tellers depiction of her. DC fans are used to her being this strong, independent character, while Alan Moore reduces her to little more than cannon fodder, to be exploited for the overall purpose of pushing the storyline of Batman and the Joker.

People who have issue with the prologue should have similar issue with the main Killing Joke story.

Personally, I think the Killing Joke is overrated as a story and nowhere near the levels of some of the stories within Batman comics, are even in the animated series.

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Old 08-08-2016, 09:48 AM   #58
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

The prologue was truly awful. When I rewatch this, I'm skipping it and starting where the movie should've started. Yes, the movie would've been incredibly short if they left out the prologue, but that's what they should've done. Strengthening Barbara as a character would've been fine, this prologue just made her look worse though.

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Old 08-08-2016, 10:49 AM   #59
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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the prologue is in line with the Killing Joke both tonally and in story. The problem people have with the prologue stems from the main Killing Joke story itself.

Alan Moore's depiction of Barbara, like mostly all Alan Moores depiction of women, goes against the years of other story tellers depiction of her. DC fans are used to her being this strong, independent character, while Alan Moore reduces her to little more than cannon fodder, to be exploited for the overall purpose of pushing the storyline of Batman and the Joker.

People who have issue with the prologue should have similar issue with the main Killing Joke story.

Personally, I think the Killing Joke is overrated as a story and nowhere near the levels of some of the stories within Batman comics, are even in the animated series.
I'm not arguing at all with what you're saying. TKJ, however definitely iconic it is, is a story with a complicated history that defines Barbara Gordon as little more than wheelchair bound at the expense of some grander scheme to drive the heart of Gotham mad. The speculation of the Joker raping Barbara has been rampant, but never substantiated in the way people theorize Batman kills the Joker. TKJ exists before "fridging women" was a coined term, but the concept is there. It wasn't until years later that they did something more meaningful with her character.

Take that story and throw a prologue on it that characterizes Barbara as a girl who takes on the persona of Batgirl only to win the approval and affection of Batman, then gets upset and gives it up because sex complicated the relationship, and you have a story that just goes all-in on diminishing her character.

Lastly, it's irrelevant to my point but I'm still irked at Timm's and Azzarrello's tone-deafness, there's no need for Batman to visit the prostitutes other than to substantiate the theory that Joker rapes Barbara. You can't approach a story with so much baggage like this, include that scene, then claim that wasn't even a thought.

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Old 08-08-2016, 11:21 AM   #60
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Alan Moore's depiction of Barbara, like mostly all Alan Moores depiction of women, goes against the years of other story tellers depiction of her.
Okay I just want to check something here. Are you implying Alan Moore goes against canon (which yes he did)? Or that his depiction of women is always sexist? Because regarding the last one I think you are full of **** if that is what you implying. Especially considering the dude himself has stated that he does not like the Killing Joke and especially because of how he depicts Barbara. I am not saying his work does not contain some bad depictions (Killing Joke) but the dude has written a hell of lot more.

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Old 08-09-2016, 07:45 AM   #61
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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The deluxe edition of Batman: The Dark Knight Returns deserved a theatrical release more than this.

Rewatched it recently and forgot how good it was.
Indeed. Animated TDK Returns is absolutely fantastic. Superb. That's how you adapt a graphic novel properly.

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Old 08-12-2016, 10:56 AM   #62
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Watched this last night. Had no issues w/ this "bat sex" scene. Although I think they wasted an opportunity to really make this a Batman and Joker story through and through. See, I liked the narrative prologue to the story, and if the writers wanted us to care about Barbara I would have made the prologue about Batman. How he's alone, no family outside of Alfred and that he views Barbara as the sister he never had. Using the narration in the prologue to have Batman being vulnerable to the audience and tell us he doesn't want to lose any family again and what not, including shots of Bruce and Barbara training and including a scene of them having dinner w/ Alfred at the mansion sharing stories, etc. I feel like that would have been far more effective to make us care more for Barbara, she's a part of Bruce's family, both sides of it. Instead of making her this kind of love interest, and I don't even like using that term w/ what the did in the prologue.

Otherwise, the prologue did nothing for me, It didnt make me dislike the movie, and it also did nothing to enhance the movie. The rest of it was just so spectacular, the performances from Conroy and Hamill, this movie is a solid 8.5-9. Just so good. Only wish it was longer.

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Old 08-12-2016, 11:12 AM   #63
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Dark Knight Returns is still the gold standard for animated adaptations .

This really fell flat in a lot of ways. I wasn't impressed by the flashbacks here. The book is far superior

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Old 08-12-2016, 02:59 PM   #64
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Okay I just want to check something here. Are you implying Alan Moore goes against canon (which yes he did)? Or that his depiction of women is always sexist? Because regarding the last one I think you are full of **** if that is what you implying. Especially considering the dude himself has stated that he does not like the Killing Joke and especially because of how he depicts Barbara. I am not saying his work does not contain some bad depictions (Killing Joke) but the dude has written a hell of lot more.
and yet hes the man who brought us such classics as the lost girls yeah the dude has issues

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Old 08-13-2016, 05:20 PM   #65
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I saw Year One again and wow, was that film beautiful. I mean, the opening scene was more impressive than whatever they were doing with this one.

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Old 08-13-2016, 05:30 PM   #66
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

You see it generally annoys me in the comics when Batman is so sexless and is all just "Grr the mission. War on Crime. Grr. Gotham."

I was enjoying Hush when it was shipping Catwoman/Batman, then the ending felt like a big letdown.

I just wish it wasn't with Batgirl of all people in a Killing Joke movie.

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Old 08-13-2016, 08:15 PM   #67
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So pumped.

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Old 08-16-2016, 01:46 AM   #68
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

So Kevin Conroy is not cool with a fallen Batman who kills, but he's ok with Batman having sex with a girl half his age then acting like a teenager after....Get outta here Conroy.

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Old 08-16-2016, 02:47 AM   #69
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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So Kevin Conroy is not cool with a fallen Batman who kills, but he's ok with Batman having sex with a girl half his age then acting like a teenager after....Get outta here Conroy.
Barbara is legal and came onto him first, and (though I hate the added story) it's not that big of a deal. It's big problem for me wasn't that they had sex, it's that the story was irrelevant and pretty stagnant. It felt like they were saying "Look at us! Making an R rated movie with Off camera SEX!! Woo hoo". I mean hell TDKRises sex scene had more substance, this one was a half step away from being as bland as Batman Year One's affair story.

Batman killing however is something that in this day and age with more and more films trying to be more "Comic/character accurate" is just unacceptable. Yes, he has killed before but for the majority of his illustrious 77 year history, he hasn't. Honor that or you're not respecting the character.


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Old 10-05-2016, 08:09 PM   #70
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Old 10-05-2016, 08:10 PM   #71
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

^ They're fantastic. The top one is my favorite.

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Old 10-06-2016, 07:35 PM   #72
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

The bottom one looks the most like the comic

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Old 10-06-2016, 08:15 PM   #73
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I still think they made a big mistake by using the updated colors for this movie. The original vibrant colors made TKJ so unique!

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Old 10-07-2016, 01:31 AM   #74
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I think we all agree on that. I think the updated colors just suck in general.

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Old 12-23-2016, 05:16 PM   #75
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I cannot get through this movie, the first twenty minutes is such a slog that I had to turn it off. Think this is gonna be one I watch in a few parts. So far though it's extremely boring.

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