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Old 02-14-2017, 10:27 PM   #101
A Necessary Evil
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Or....it's just that the animation was mediocre, the story itself rushed, and the prologue sucked ass.


Nope, has to be the source material.

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The way SONY dominated Marc Webb was way more hardcore than anything in 50 Shades anyways.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:09 PM   #102
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I liked it. Moore's original is my all-time #2 graphic novel and I thought this did a pretty good job. There are things I wish had been done differently but I was pretty much resigned to that being the case before I watched it.

I watched the whole thing through the first time. Since then I skip to the fourth chapter which starts with Barbara returning home from her jog just prior to getting shot. That's the start of the movie for me. I find it works better that way.


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Old 02-18-2017, 08:19 PM   #103
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Or....it's just that the animation was mediocre, the story itself rushed, and the prologue sucked ass.


Nope, has to be the source material.
I'll give the slight edge to the prologue as well over that godawful second half.
It was at least a familiar cliche with Batman and [insert sidekick here] done decently. Plus, I got a good laugh out of that scene.

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Old 02-19-2017, 09:19 AM   #104
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

Fantastic little video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xRDiUD1a8c

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Old 02-20-2017, 10:37 AM   #105
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I don't mind the idea of a Batman/Batgirl sexual relationship but I disliked that Batman would be so reluctant later to even talk to her and that it would lead Batgirl to quit the identity. It also made Batman in the main story seem a little too lacking in anger, rage, intensity against the Joker.

Edit: It also felt weird that the Joker had gone to prostitutes but not been violent with them (he seems like he would be pretty violent and sadistic with everyone but I guess he could make exceptions and/or be unusually violent in the present plot). The triumphant epilogue also felt awkward when the ending was so ambiguous about whether or not Batman killed the Joker (the beginning seeming that he didn't, that he was smiling and not in rage, then the ending laughter seeming more sinister and insane from going on so long).


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Old 02-20-2017, 10:49 AM   #106
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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I found this interview/answer by Alan Moore on Good Reads about TKJ. Anybody read this?

"As with all of the work which I do not own, I’m afraid that I have no interest in either the original book, or in the apparently forthcoming cartoon version which I heard about a week or two ago. I have asked for my name to be removed from it, and for any monies accruing from it to be sent to the artist, which is my standard position with all of this...material. Actually, with The Killing Joke, I have never really liked it much as a work – although I of course remember Brian Bolland’s art as being absolutely beautiful – simply because I thought it was far too violent and sexualised a treatment for a simplistic comic book character like Batman and a regrettable misstep on my part.
Moore is usually so dismissive of mainstream comics that it's not surprising he's even pretty dismissive of his own work in mainstream comics (although more interesting that he's bothered that it wasn't mainstream enough for the characters). I still think it was the best origin and one of the best characterizations of the Joker but some aspects didn't work as well in the film.

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Old 02-20-2017, 11:07 AM   #107
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Fantastic little video
That was excellent


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Old 02-20-2017, 05:13 PM   #108
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Moore is usually so dismissive of mainstream comics that it's not surprising he's even pretty dismissive of his own work in mainstream comics (although more interesting that he's bothered that it wasn't mainstream enough for the characters). I still think it was the best origin and one of the best characterizations of the Joker but some aspects didn't work as well in the film.
Yes I've read Moore's views on TKJ before. It's still my favourite Alan Moore work and my all-time #2 graphic novel.

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Old 02-20-2017, 09:01 PM   #109
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I liked that YouTube review. But, you might want to remove the link and just put the title since you're not allowed to link stuff with that sort of language.

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Old 02-21-2017, 10:48 PM   #110
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I agree with the assertion that this might have been better as a special in 30-45 minute format. It was risky to extend a small story to feature-length. It had some minor problems, but seeing such a landmark story come to life was just too attractive to leave me feeling like I was cheated in some way.

I didn't mind the Batgirl-Batman fling as much as others did. The way Batman repressed and avoided his emotions was very much in character. The only real criticism I have of TKJ is that the carnival ride that Jim Gordon took could have been a little longer, shown more from his POV, and creepier.

As for positives, the scene where Joker shoots Barbara was flawless. As some of the Blu-ray extras pointed out, it's sometimes hard to dislike Joker because he's so charismatic and original. However, the dialogue was delivered with repugnant excellence by Mark Hamill. It was easy to hate him in that moment, which is exactly how it should have been. Conroy also brought an authenticity to Batman's olive branch attitude toward Joker that was absolutely essential for this story to work. I also thought Joker's song was grimly hilarious.

I wouldn't say that this is a top 5 DC animated film, but it's still a must-see for anyone even remotely interested in the Batman mythos. I'm delighted to own it.

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Old 02-21-2017, 11:09 PM   #111
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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I agree with the assertion that this might have been better as a special in 30-45 minute format. It was risky to extend a small story to feature-length. It had some minor problems, but seeing such a landmark story come to life was just too attractive to leave me feeling like I was cheated in some way.

I didn't mind the Batgirl-Batman fling as much as others did. The way Batman repressed and avoided his emotions was very much in character. The only real criticism I have of TKJ is that the carnival ride that Jim Gordon took could have been a little longer, shown more from his POV, and creepier.

As for positives, the scene where Joker shoots Barbara was flawless. As some of the Blu-ray extras pointed out, it's sometimes hard to dislike Joker because he's so charismatic and original. However, the dialogue was delivered with repugnant excellence by Mark Hamill. It was easy to hate him in that moment, which is exactly how it should have been. Conroy also brought an authenticity to Batman's olive branch attitude toward Joker that was absolutely essential for this story to work. I also thought Joker's song was grimly hilarious.

I wouldn't say that this is a top 5 DC animated film, but it's still a must-see for anyone even remotely interested in the Batman mythos. I'm delighted to own it.
Well said - agree with every word

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Old 02-21-2017, 11:14 PM   #112
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Well said - agree with every word
Thank you. Welcome to the Hype. This is one of my favorite places on the 'Net. Enjoy yourself.

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Old 02-21-2017, 11:22 PM   #113
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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Welcome to the Hype. This is one of my favorite places on the 'Net. Enjoy yourself.
Thank you I did look to see if there was a board for new members to say hello and introduce themselves but I couldn't see one. My apologies to everyone if I missed it!

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Old 02-22-2017, 02:44 PM   #114
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I just don't think Timm's heart was in this one. Going from Gods & Monsters to this can't have been overly exciting.

The casting was pretty much the only thing the nailed with this one and they all did a great job. Everything else seemed slightly off, even the score.

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Old 02-22-2017, 02:51 PM   #115
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

The prologue is terrible and unnecessary, honestly they should've done something else rather than a Batgirl angsty filler.

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Old 02-22-2017, 07:49 PM   #116
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I really enjoy this, consider it a 7/10, but they really should have used the vibrant colors from the original pressing, not the re-release.

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Old 04-13-2017, 05:34 PM   #117
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

I reviewed the DVD on my film-blog and wanted to see if anyone here had any reaction to this summing-up:

Quote:
Is Azzarello's overall take on Batgirl a brilliant psychological insight? No, but it's also not mere "objectification," as the more asinine critics have claimed. The one strong aspect of Azzarello's conception is that, by giving her an "Electra complex," he has departed from the fannish tendency to depict Batgirl II as a representative of the eternally innocent "Silver Age of Comics." I grew up in those days, but they're gone. In today's market it's hard to believe in heroes who run out to risk their lives in battle without also believing that they may be a little messed-up at times. Azzarello's version of Barbara Gordon shows her as rightfully despising a slimy, murdering gangster who tries to play sexual games with her head. At the same time, her rage, however justified, has an unclean quality about it. When she pounds on Franz, crying, "You ruined everything," it's to show that she has demons she has not yet mastered-- not, as I'm sure some ultraliberal idiot will have said by now, because "everything in a woman's life has to be defined by a man."

Azzarello probably will never reach the heights Alan Moore has at his most creative. However, the original material for KILLING JOKE matches one of Moore's own professed ideals: to tell the stories that the artist wants to tell, not those that his audience necessarily wants.

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Old 04-13-2017, 05:42 PM   #118
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Default Re: Batman: The Killing Joke animated film is coming - Part 1

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I think the mixed response to The Killing Joke is very telling about the quality of the source material. It simply isn't that good of a story. Prologue aside, the film follows it closely, so I feel much of the consensus about it not living up to the book is down to people remembering the comic as being better than it actually was.

I genuinely preferred the prologue to the rest of the film. When I first heard about the Batman/Batgirl pairing, I was as confused as anyone. Seeing it in the context of the film, it made sense to me.
Ditto, I think that the prologue shows Batgirl is a little messed-up psychologically, doesn't want to admit it, and finally does the right thing by stepping away from the hero thing-- at which point Evil intrudes its ugly face.

I wasn't crazy about the allusion to Oracle at the end, though I could see it as a response to everything she's gone through in the prologue.

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