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View Poll Results: Do you like the Donner Films because of Nostalgia?
Yes, I was a kid when I first saw them. 6 10.17%
No, I like them because I think they're good movies. 31 52.54%
I liked them as a kid and still like them now, but not because of nostalgia 22 37.29%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-15-2016, 12:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

They're two of the best comic book movies ever made. I hate the time travel ending of STM, and I prefer a more modern take on Lex but these are incredible movies. Reeve, Kidder and Stamp's performances are iconic IMO


STM is an absolute classic. A near perfect movie aside from their goofy Lex and the time travel

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Old 09-16-2016, 02:57 AM   #27
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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I'm Curious. It seems like a few people on the Hype nowadays believe you can only enjoy these films if you wear rose colored glasses.
I couldn't vote because the poll didn't have a "They're not good films" option. I was never a huge fan of them, even as a young child, and the passage of three decades has only allowed me to see the plethora of shortcomings that these movies have. Outside of Reeve making a valiant effort despite being surrounded by poor storytelling, bargain bin special effects, a k-mart special costume, and inexplicably bad acting from his costars, there isn't much to like about the Donner films.

While people have written volumes about the silly ending to Superman:The Movie, I've always been bothered by Superman's deconstruction in Superman 2, despite that being the best film of the quadrilogy. We witnessed the avatar of comic book heroism voluntarily shirk his duties as the world's sentinel so he can be with his girlfriend. Presumably, if Zod hadn't shown up, Superman would have been just fine with watching decades worth of disasters and suffering as long as he could keep jumping between the sheets with Lois. And what does he do when he begrudgingly takes his powers back, including the ridiculous amnesia kiss? He seeks revenge on someone now much weaker than him. Truth, justice, and the American way...unless Superman is horny or hacked off.

All of that being said, I don't fault fans for viewing these films through nostalgia goggles. I won't bore everyone with my personal list of old books, TV shows, and movies for which I still have affection despite being able to see their various flaws as a middle-aged man, but I certainly have a few pair of my own goggles.

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Old 09-16-2016, 03:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

Nostalgia plays a part for me, but regardless, I like STM and SII because they're good movies.

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Old 09-16-2016, 04:22 AM   #29
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

Actually, Superman II (both versions) are not at par with the first movie, not bad but they are a step-down.

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Old 09-16-2016, 06:13 AM   #30
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

I never saw them as a kid.

I think STM has a poor overall story with some charming moments.

I think SM2 is good though.

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Old 09-16-2016, 01:52 PM   #31
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

I didn't even see these movies when I was a kid. I grew up on Superman: The Animated Series (the best Superman adaptation we will ever have, it's the perfect blend of Fleischer, Reeve and Reeves)

I saw these movies when I was like 14 and I fell in love with them. Not because of nostalgia, but primarily because of how perfectly they portray Superman. Reeve's performance is a revelation. The warmth and genuine earnestness that he brings is truly magical, and almost impossible to replicate.

I've gone from loving, to liking, to hating, and back to loving Cavill's Superman, but he lacks that same genuine warmth that Reeve brought. They couldn't have gotten a better Superman for these films. And he is the main reason I love these two movies.

The diner scenes in II are also totally iconic. General Zod and Lois are incredibly well done as well with some great performances there.

My perfect Superman movie lies in between MOS and STM. They still haven't made the perfect Superman movie yet, while Batman has several movies that I view as flawless

I have to say, Superman's origin is handled with so much care and is done so well in STM, that also plays a big role in my love for that film. My main issues with the film are Lex's dumb plot (love his lair though, that location is iconic status for me) and the time travel.

II is enjoyable but nowhere near perfect. STM is far superior even though it has the lamer villain

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Old 09-16-2016, 01:57 PM   #32
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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I have to say, Superman's origin is handled with so much care and is done so well in STM, that also plays a big role in my love for that film.
Definitely. The first hour or so of the film is pretty flawless. It might be the greatest stretch of a CBM film ever and the template on how to do an origin story. The back half is still good, but not at that level.

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Old 09-16-2016, 02:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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I grew up on Superman: The Animated Series (the best Superman adaptation we will ever have, it's the perfect blend of Fleischer, Reeve and Reeves)
I completely agree, that animated series is pure perfection

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Old 09-16-2016, 02:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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All of that being said, I don't fault fans for viewing these films through nostalgia goggles.
Going by the poll results, that's not the main reason why they like these movies.

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Old 09-16-2016, 03:04 PM   #35
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

I watched these movies for the first time this year, well, at least all the way through from beginning to end for the first time, sorry Superman fans, I think they are both pretty mediocre movies. Just too cheesy for me. I'll take Henry Cavill, Michael Shannon & Man Of Steel over Reeve, Stamp & either of these movies. Blasphemy I know, but I just couldn't get into these movies.

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Old 09-16-2016, 03:06 PM   #36
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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Definitely. The first hour or so of the film is pretty flawless. It might be the greatest stretch of a CBM film ever and the template on how to do an origin story. The back half is still good, but not at that level.
Yeah, Everything after the Superman/Lois interview is not as compelling overall.

I did like Superman and Lex's interaction, though.

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Old 09-17-2016, 04:01 AM   #37
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

The power of nostalgia cannot be denied - everytime I see clips of these films I get a little misty-eyed, and remember being an eight-year old watching Superman the movie - and coming out feeling like I could fly at the end.

As far as the film's quality goes well, it's simply excellent and greater than the sum of its parts. Somehow STM manages to have the absolutely worst Deus Ex Machina ending in any comic book movie - possibly any movie - ever, yet still be hugely enjoyable.

I remember thinking that (as an eight-year old) that Superman flying around the world really fast to turn back time was dumb.... but that the film was still awesome.

So, while I have a huge nostalgia-based reaction to these films, I still love them for their own merits - and remember, for 1978 the special effects were better than anything out there, save Star Wars.

And above all else, STM has the best-ever portrayal of any Superhero ever (IMO, but I suspect there are many who would agree - and in contemporary terms only Robert Downey jr comes close in terms of utterly capturing a character in a definitive way). Christopher Reeve isn't just identified with the character of Superman, he's identified as Superman, that his performance so completely encapsulated the character.

I really enjoyed Man of Steel, and I think Henry Cavill certainly looks the part, and has some gravitas - but is hampered by scripts that create a mediocre (at best) characterisation of Krypton's Last Son. There are some good moments in Man of Steel, "You don't control me, you never will. But that doesn't mean I'm your enemy." where he really nails the part, but otherwise Superman feels neglected in films that bear his name.

So, in conclusion, I acknowledge the enormous nostalgia factor attached to STM, particularly for me. However, despite its campy nature and other flaws, I still think it's one of the greatest Superhero films of all time on its own merits.

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Old 09-17-2016, 06:09 AM   #38
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

Both films have moments that have dated somewhat but, IMO, after all these years their still the most purely entertaining superhero movies ever.

Exciting, moving (Pa Kent's final moment(s) in STM before collapsing, Reeve's performance/reaction to Lois's death, the whole flying 'Can You Read My Mind' sequence) and hilarious in measure all led by THE most iconic lead performance the genre has seen to date.

What both those films get right more than compensates for any weaknesses and to answer the nostalgia part it doesn't play into why I adore those movies still as there are flicks I loved as a kid also that do nothing for me now as an adult (RAMBO FIRST BLOOD PART 2 for example).

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Old 09-17-2016, 06:13 AM   #39
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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I watched these movies for the first time this year, well, at least all the way through from beginning to end for the first time, sorry Superman fans, I think they are both pretty mediocre movies. Just too cheesy for me. I'll take Henry Cavill, Michael Shannon & Man Of Steel over Reeve, Stamp & either of these movies. Blasphemy I know, but I just couldn't get into these movies.
Unfortunately, S:TM is full of illusion breakers from the very start. We see Kal-El come to Earth in a Happy Meal Toy and later we witness young Clark running in a way that makes him look like Pinocchio infected with the Speed Force. Even in 1978, many of the designs and effects were inexplicably bad.

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Old 09-17-2016, 06:27 AM   #40
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

The dated fx are part of its charm.

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Old 09-17-2016, 06:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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The dated fx are part of its charm.
Either it holds up or it doesn't, there is no rationalizing poor choices. Any story has to pull the audience in..and hold them there. Cracks in the construct become more visible over time, like Superman giving away one of his weaknesses in an interview. These movies have ultimately revealed themselves to be products of people who really didn't understand the inner workings of comic books.

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Old 09-17-2016, 06:45 AM   #42
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

But it does hold up. Some dated fx don't make it a bad movie. I can't speak for everyone but the movie still draws me in. Given how the movie is still held up as one of the all time greats, including by notable people like Raimi and Nolan, it is a movie that was definitely made by people who understand comic books.

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Old 09-17-2016, 06:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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But it does hold up. Some dated fx don't make it a bad movie. I can't speak for everyone but the movie still draws me in. Given how the movie is still held up as one of the all time greats, including by notable people like Raimi and Nolan, it is a movie that was definitely made by people who understand comic books.


I think people should appreciate aswell that a lot of the FX were new at the time, they hadn't been done before. They literally had to invent stuff to get it to work.

Also I've noticed people love to crap on the Fx that look dated yet ignore the Fx that still look good to this day. I still think the first Superman flight scene in the fortress is still the best in flight wire shot I've ever seen.

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Old 09-17-2016, 07:17 AM   #44
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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Superman the movie... feels like three separate mini-movies tied together.

The Krypton part is straight up SciFi stuff, the Smallville scenes are executed brilliantly...
For me, the Krypton and Smallville sequences are near-flawless and timeless - and to a good degree, they’re what redeem STM on purely “cinematic” terms. The Daily Planet scenes are also very good. But at this point, the movie has taken a turn into overt comedy; and one can certainly argue whether this shift in tone is entirely coherent. (Campy Lex and turning-back-time aren’t really worth discussing ).

I still like STM. I’ve always disliked SII. One of STM’s main flaws, as a standalone, is its incomplete narrative. What happens to Superman-Clark-Lois? What about those Kryptonian criminals (who were so ominously introduced, but never heard of again)? Unfortunately, we have to turn to an inferior sequel to get completion. IMO, SII gets a lot of (too much) credit for simply dealing with the stuff that STM left hanging. But purely on its own, self-contained terms, SII sucks. Certainly, it’s a big step down from STM.

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Old 09-17-2016, 07:21 AM   #45
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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I think people should appreciate aswell that a lot of the FX were new at the time, they hadn't been done before. They literally had to invent stuff to get it to work.

Also I've noticed people love to crap on the Fx that look dated yet ignore the Fx that still look good to this day. I still think the first Superman flight scene in the fortress is still the best in flight wire shot I've ever seen.
Not to mention they actually WON the visual effects Oscar. The visual effects were Oscar worthy.

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Old 09-17-2016, 08:02 AM   #46
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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For me, the Krypton and Smallville sequences are near-flawless and timeless - and to a good degree, they’re what redeem STM on purely “cinematic” terms. The Daily Planet scenes are also very good. But at this point, the movie has taken a turn into overt comedy; and one can certainly argue whether this shift in tone is entirely coherent. (Campy Lex and turning-back-time aren’t really worth discussing ).

I still like STM. I’ve always disliked SII. One of STM’s main flaws, as a standalone, is its incomplete narrative. What happens to Superman-Clark-Lois? What about those Kryptonian criminals (who were so ominously introduced, but never heard of again)? Unfortunately, we have to turn to an inferior sequel to get completion. IMO, SII gets a lot of (too much) credit for simply dealing with the stuff that STM left hanging. But purely on its own, self-contained terms, SII sucks. Certainly, it’s a big step down from STM.
I think the problem with Superman II is there isn't a complete version, the Lester version doesn't feel complete and neither does the Donner version. Th closest I've found to a complete version is edited by a fan and even that has its problems. WBs will probably never revisit Superman II but had they let that guy Selutron make his version I think we'd have as close to a complete version of the film that we could ever get.

Still though I don't think SII is a huge step down from the first film but it's certainly is a step down, I agree on that.

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Not to mention they actually WON the visual effects Oscar. The visual effects were Oscar worthy.

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Old 09-17-2016, 08:37 AM   #47
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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But it does hold up. Some dated fx don't make it a bad movie. I can't speak for everyone but the movie still draws me in. Given how the movie is still held up as one of the all time greats, including by notable people like Raimi and Nolan, it is a movie that was definitely made by people who understand comic books.
The visuals are every bit as essential as the writing and acting. It's just like baking something to eat: all of the ingredients matter. Moreover, Superman was deconstructed by numerous cliched Hollywood plot devices, so the weaknesses of the films can't simply be written off to the time period.

I've watched both Batman Begins and Spiderman in the last year. You're right that they hold up, effects included. I distinctly remember watching Superman and Superman 2 in the early 90s and I realized even back then that there were serious cracks in the foundation. As I said previously, I don't fault people for viewing these through nostalgia googles, but they're pretty bad adaptations of Superman and his world when looked at critically.

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Old 09-17-2016, 12:04 PM   #48
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

Superman remains a great film.i watch it frequently.It remains one of my top 3 comic book films of all times.effects work doesn't bother me.every film is
product of it's time.film or tv show eather is good/enjoyable or it's not.

there will never be a complete version of Superman II though my perfered
version is the Donner Cut.

compared to some comic book films of today that have lots of humor I find it strange bashing 2 good comic book films like Superman and Superman II as campy.

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Old 09-17-2016, 02:14 PM   #49
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

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The visuals are every bit as essential as the writing and acting. It's just like baking something to eat: all of the ingredients matter. Moreover, Superman was deconstructed by numerous cliched Hollywood plot devices, so the weaknesses of the films can't simply be written off to the time period.

I've watched both Batman Begins and Spiderman in the last year. You're right that they hold up, effects included. I distinctly remember watching Superman and Superman 2 in the early 90s and I realized even back then that there were serious cracks in the foundation. As I said previously, I don't fault people for viewing these through nostalgia googles, but they're pretty bad adaptations of Superman and his world when looked at critically.
But the visuals still work. Sure some of the fx look dated, but that's the case for many great old school movies e.g. The Wizard of Oz, The Birds etc. I've no idea what cliche Hollywood devices you're talking about. But what ever weakness the movie has, its not Hollywood cliches.

I'm not talking about Batman Begins and Spider-Man holding up. I'm saying the directors of those movies, Chris Nolan and Sam Raimi, are among the vast millions of people who still hold this movie up in high regard. In fact Nolan cited Richard Donner's vision and scope of Superman when pitching the concept for Batman Begins to Warner Bros.

Looking at the poll most people here at least are not looking at this movie through nostalgia goggles. So the reality is people like it because they genuinely think its a great movie. Period.

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Old 09-17-2016, 02:22 PM   #50
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Default Re: Do you like Superman: The Movie and/or Superman 2 because of nostalgia?

I do think many aspects of both films haven't aged well. I personally never liked the corny comedy that Lex and his goons had in the films. It's also why I'm not a fan of much of the humor in the Raimi Spidey films. That's more of a taste thing though.

What does hold up is Reeve's impeccable performance. And the general outline for how they went about telling the origin story was very well done as well. As to weather or not I'd call them one of the best superhero films made...hard to say. It becomes an issue of taking into account the time they were made in. Citizen Kane is a good movie, but if I compare it to films today...It's just another really good movie. However, when you take into account how groundbreaking it was at the time, then it's a different story. Same thing with the Supes films.

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