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View Poll Results: Who is worse... the DCEU Joker or Lex?
The Joker 26 21.67%
Lex Luthor 41 34.17%
They're both equally bad 38 31.67%
I like them both and want to see more of them 15 12.50%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-21-2016, 01:11 PM   #51
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Oh, he was Blowpher bad. But what really bugged me was how, in the comic book prequels to BvS, Lex is written much, MUCH closer to his comic book counterpart. He's not a raving lunatic or a Jolly Rancher obsessed creep. Why couldn't we get THAT Lex in the movie? Ugh.

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Old 12-21-2016, 01:18 PM   #52
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

I hope he's becoming more like the Lex I remember from the 00's Justice League cartoon. Though there's a guy in the comics called Gsomething Godfrey - he was locked up at Belle Reve; Darkseid sent his female furies to attack Belle Reve and bust Godfrey out...I hope Lex doesn't go the way of this Godfrey guy since he's kind of got a little history with the New Gods now.

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Old 12-21-2016, 04:44 PM   #53
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

For me Luther was worse. I actually saw potential in some moments with Leto's Joker. For example, when they are rescuing Harley in the rooftop from the chopper, and Joker starts shooting his AK while laughing maniacally. I remember thinking to my self when seeing it 'that is The Joker right there.' Unfortunalely those moments were too few. But I think with better writing Leto can give us a good Joker in the future.

But, not once did I ever think those things about Eisenbergs Lex.

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Old 12-21-2016, 07:40 PM   #54
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin View Post
Yup. One was cringe by design. An admirable evolution of Sir Ben Kingsley's craft to play a comic fool. The other was Eisenberg doing his same old neurotic routine, this time on speed and a paper thin screenplay filled with vacuous lines that demanded more gravitas to carry them to decency.
I was making a joke, but I'll indulge you. Sir Ben Kingsley's "craft" was not even on autopilot for that role. He "acted" like he stunk up the john (cue two girls going Eww!) and he feigned narcolepsy. Apart from his reveal as Slattery, he was supposed to be the Mandarin, as the trailers suggested. "You'll never see me coming." That sounded foreboding, did it not? IGN, Cinemablend and numerous other sites informed audiences-in-wait who exactly Mandarin was, that being Iron Man's archenemy, bad accent and all. Instead, we got a buffoon, and another guy who was still pissed off at Stark for blowing him off.

Of course the Mandarin is a D-list villain compared to Joker and Lex. I never said otherwise.

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Old 12-21-2016, 07:54 PM   #55
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Victarion your avatar.

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Old 12-21-2016, 08:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON View Post
For me Luther was worse. I actually saw potential in some moments with Leto's Joker. For example, when they are rescuing Harley in the rooftop from the chopper, and Joker starts shooting his AK while laughing maniacally. I remember thinking to my self when seeing it 'that is The Joker right there.' Unfortunalely those moments were too few. But I think with better writing Leto can give us a good Joker in the future.
For me it was his "I need a machinegun" delivery. That and the attack on Van Criss labs. Your scene was pretty good too.

@Best Girl - credit to tacit-ronin for the avatar. It showed up in the Lounge and I had to grab it before anyone else could claim it.

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Old 12-21-2016, 08:46 PM   #57
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

The Joker.

I love Leto's version of the Joker. I love his mannerisms, aesthetic, etc.
The only thing that throws me off is how visible his Joker is in regards to his whole "thug" element. Seeing Joker just sit in the middle of a club seems out of character; I suppose it works for this version of the character, but it'll take some getting used to. I just feel like he should be more elusive.

I've noticed many people are dissatisfied with this portrayal of Lex Luthor, but I thought it was perfect. It's definitely not traditional, but it doesn't have to be.

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Old 12-21-2016, 09:03 PM   #58
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchwork Man View Post
I was making a joke, but I'll indulge you. Sir Ben Kingsley's "craft" was not even on autopilot for that role. He "acted" like he stunk up the john (cue two girls going Eww!) and he feigned narcolepsy. Apart from his reveal as Slattery, he was supposed to be the Mandarin, as the trailers suggested. "You'll never see me coming." That sounded foreboding, did it not? IGN, Cinemablend and numerous other sites informed audiences-in-wait who exactly Mandarin was, that being Iron Man's archenemy, bad accent and all. Instead, we got a buffoon, and another guy who was still pissed off at Stark for blowing him off.

Of course the Mandarin is a D-list villain compared to Joker and Lex. I never said otherwise.

I loved how the trailers were a meta-extension of the marketing of the perfect boogeyman terrorist in the film. Making the subversion to Slattery all the more rewarding.

Why is acting in quotes? You really don't think Sir Ben is Slattery in his day to day living do ya?

Autopilot? There isn't a single performance in his oeuvre quite like it. He was praised by critics and fanboys alike for his brilliant comic turn.

So you know that Mandarin is a D-lister and still attempted (and failed) to make a comparison to the most iconic comic book villains?

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Old 12-21-2016, 09:12 PM   #59
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Sir Ben's turn as Trevor Slattery has been hailed as a "brilliant comic turn"?

No, I initially made a joke. I guess you failed to notice.

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Old 12-21-2016, 09:15 PM   #60
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Yeah. Your joke didn't land because of the aforementioned difference in status.

Um, yes. Read the critical reactions to IM3, Sir Kingsley's turn as Slattery is one of the most praised ones. Even those that hated what they did to Mandarin concede that taken on its own, his was a hell of a performance.

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Old 12-21-2016, 09:38 PM   #61
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

I didn't realize the poll had to do with status. I thought it was about who's off to a worse start. Hence the joke. Sorry you didn't get it.


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Old 12-21-2016, 10:57 PM   #62
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Oh, he was Blowpher bad..
You said the magic word.

*takes out sword*

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and arise SIR Rowsdower of SHH.

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Old 12-21-2016, 11:41 PM   #63
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

What I came away with is just how little both villains resembled who they are in comics and in other mediums. I haven't seen Suicide Squad but I saw two of Leto's scenes, and I have to say I was shocked at just how little resemblance I saw to the Joker. It was almost like it was portrayed by someone who had no idea about what the character was about, who worked off cliff notes and secondhand information. I didn't think it was possible to screw up the Joker but apparently you can.

As for Lex Luthor, it's basically the same. It's not just an aesthetics thing, it's just there's nothing imposing or threatening about him. He doesn't even come across as intelligent or a genius with his brain dead idea of creating Doomsday. What I take away from both of these characters is there's nothing familiar with them. I look at what Batman Telltale series did with Penguin, it's different but there's still some familiarity with the interpretation.

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Old 12-21-2016, 11:49 PM   #64
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

They started running with the clown prince thing...Joker has a dude kiss his ring like a king, and his criminal empire extends far beyond Gotham. Other than the mob boss and clown gimmick, he's different from what I've encountered in The Man Who Laughs, The Long Halloween, Dark Victory.

The only familiar elements I've found in Lex are his aversion to Superman and his scheming. He doesn't have the suave, man-in-charge persona of the JL cartoon at all; that's a bigger component to Lex imo. I could see the Lex from the JL cartoon working with Supes if its to his benefit, while BvS Lex probably wouldn't.

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Old 12-22-2016, 01:06 AM   #65
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Okay, my 10c (we don't have pennies in NZ).

Luthor wins this hands down IMO.

Both were reinventions, and took very different spins to previous incarnations of the characters.

The Joker was moderately successful - he was kind of a "gangster-pimp Joker" but that kind of worked - I mean, they had had had to do something different to minimize the inevitable comparison with Ledger.
To my mind, this new Joker worked sort-of. Was it as good as Ledger, not even close, but hey at least it was different and has a lot of potential for future growth.

I mean, sadly, I was hoping that Leto was going to be the shining light in that film - that all his bits were going to make the rest of the crap worth it. They didn't. But, they didn't ruin the film either, or make me not want to see this character again.

Luthor.....well, he was just terrible, and I hope I never see the character again (or at least not until I'm ready).

Who knows, they might radically re-think Luthor for the next film, but he was just crazy (and possibly Darkseid's *****) at the end of B v S - now that is something Luthor would never be. For a guy who's meant to be the smartest living human, a man who's kept the godlike might of Superman at bay by his intellect and resources alone - well, the guy in B v S wasn't that guy.
The animated versions of Luthor have all been far superior to this version.


For the Joker I give WB/DC 8/10 for style, in making him different and maybe 5/10 for execution (making him a compelling or at least interesting character).

For Luthor I'll say 6/10 for style (hey a young Luthor is a new thing for films) but - 10/10 for execution because he was so off-putting.

Just IMO of course.

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Old 12-22-2016, 01:34 AM   #66
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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The Joker was moderately successful - he was kind of a "gangster-pimp Joker" but that kind of worked - I mean, they had had had to do something different to minimize the inevitable comparison with Ledger.
Yet they're still being compared, because it's the same character.

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Old 12-22-2016, 02:26 AM   #67
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Yet they're still being compared, because it's the same character.
Well, yes. Not really sure what your point was there, maybe I'm misreading you. But, whenever a new iteration of a well-established character comes along comparison is inevitable, and in that comparison one iteration tends to suffer (just ask Zachary Quinto or Brandon Routh).

What I said, earlier, was that taking a very different approach with the Joker might have been DC's way of minimizing those comparisons - because the two iterations of the character were so radically different ( you know, apples and oranges, both are fruit and you probably prefer one over the other, but it's tough to compare them).

Cheers.

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Old 12-22-2016, 08:35 AM   #68
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Originally Posted by Victarion View Post
For me it was his "I need a machinegun" delivery. That and the attack on Van Criss labs. Your scene was pretty good too.

@Best Girl - credit to tacit-ronin for the avatar. It showed up in the Lounge and I had to grab it before anyone else could claim it.
Yeah he had a few good moments, that one just stuck out for me. Joker was mixed where as for me where as Lex was pretty much all bad.

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Old 12-22-2016, 10:17 AM   #69
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

Interesting how close the votes are, apart from the 'I like them both option' of course.

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Old 12-22-2016, 11:25 AM   #70
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Interesting how close the votes are, apart from the 'I like them both option' of course.
Zack Snyder got two of his friends to vote with him.

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Old 12-22-2016, 03:11 PM   #71
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Zack Snyder got two of his friends to vote with him.
One of them must be Ayer.

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Old 12-22-2016, 06:15 PM   #72
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

The funny thing about the Joker is that if they truly wanted to differentiate from Heath, then the best thing they could have done would have been to simply go full comic book and try to give us a Joker that resembled the version from the DC universe. Because as great as Heath was, there were plenty of differences between his Joker and his comic book counterpart. But instead they went with this weird hybrid of Spring Breakers James Franco and I don't know what.

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Old 12-22-2016, 06:21 PM   #73
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Originally Posted by Patchwork Man View Post
I didn't realize the poll had to do with status. I thought it was about who's off to a worse start. Hence the joke. Sorry you didn't get it.
No. The difference in status between Joker/Luthor and The Mandarin makes your joke inert. Sorry that you didn't get it.

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Old 12-22-2016, 06:55 PM   #74
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

I really loved Jesse's different interpretation. I think Leto was fine too but I just don't think he was given much to do in ( my opinion) a poor flick.
I think he's very talented and could still pull off a great performance with the character.

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Old 12-23-2016, 10:52 AM   #75
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Default Re: Poll: Joker vs. Lex Luthor: Who Is Off to a Worse Start?

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
The funny thing about the Joker is that if they truly wanted to differentiate from Heath, then the best thing they could have done would have been to simply go full comic book and try to give us a Joker that resembled the version from the DC universe. Because as great as Heath was, there were plenty of differences between his Joker and his comic book counterpart. But instead they went with this weird hybrid of Spring Breakers James Franco and I don't know what.
They had plenty in common too though. They took a lot from the comics and put it into Heaths Joker. They really captured the spirit of the character. I could go into more detail if you want.

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