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Old 01-15-2017, 03:29 PM   #51
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Couple of things.

STAR Wars I feel your pain and I completely see where you are coming from. I'm a heartbroken DC fan as well. I don't agree with everything you said but I can definitely see what has pushed you to this point.

As for the WW news. I think the Schmoes Knows panel tackled this exceptionally well. I'm not ready to believe that WW is a mess. Not enough information. However I do agree that Marvel has earned their track record of good will going into a movie and unfortunately DC HAS EARNED the skepticism that exists going into a movie based on their track record. It's just the situation that has been created.

That being said I hope WW is good but the doubt does now exist. But DC has earned that.
Well the Schmoes Know crew said that the same source that said BvS was a mess is the same exact source that is saying Wonder Woman is a mess too...And BvS - those trailers were AMAZING....The first BvS trailer looked like it was going to literally be better than The Dark Knight. Wow...Was I wrong.

Like I said, I'll give Wonder Woman a chance, but if DC goes 0/4 , I'm done...I'm DONE...I'M DONE....I will scream "I'm done" more than Ronnie against Sammi Sweetheart in that epic Jersey Shore episode.

DC has Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Joker, Luthor - the best characters of all time in comic history. Yet, every single interpretation has been a giant miss, imo.

Yet Marvel is putting out Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, and Black Panther , their B-Listers, and their B-Listers are killing it in the cinema. I mean, it really proves what talented film makers and producers can do with less material versus what non-talented people can do with better material. The result is obvious.

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Old 01-15-2017, 03:59 PM   #52
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Oh I agree. I just hope the news on WW is wrong. However, I think I'm already done with JL. If WW I'd good, it may restore dome faith. We will see. And you are right, the best characters ever and they botch it.

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Old 01-15-2017, 04:13 PM   #53
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And about the Affleck on Batman news, none of us are insiders so all we can do is speculate on the what we know. Both the doom and gloom and the positive news are from Affleck's own mouth. First he says that the script is coming along but he wants to take his time and if they can't get it right it won't happen. We can only speculate here but why say if it doesn't come together right, he won't do it? Then two weeks later he says it's coming along nicely and progress is really good. Again we can only speculate and say that everything's moving nicely like he said or he is doing some damage control. Either way, we can only go by what Affleck says, so...

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Old 01-15-2017, 04:23 PM   #54
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Oh I agree. I just hope the news on WW is wrong. However, I think I'm already done with JL. If WW I'd good, it may restore dome faith. We will see. And you are right, the best characters ever and they botch it.
I remember a day where DC ruled. It was 2005-2008. BB and TDK, Marvel only had X-Men 3 and Spider-Man 3 which werent good. Things looked great, then about 2011, DC put out Green Lantern, thats when everything went down hill. Once Avengers came out, and all that success with their shared universe, DC completely went completely to crap. Rather than looking at their product, they focused on what Marvel was doing. Once they did that - it was over for us DC fans. Green Lantern and MoS. Then we thought BvS would have learned from its mistakes, but nope - it created new ones. The problem then turned into a film called Suicide Squad.

The good news for SHH moderators is that there is no more DC vs. Marvel debates. Because 95% of all of us is in an agreement Marvel is doing better than DC films. There is nothing to debate. Nothing to argue. Those days are over...

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Old 01-15-2017, 04:24 PM   #55
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Semantics.
Well, we were discussing the use of a word originally, so we were always having a semantic discussion. Semantics aren't inherently good or bad; they're just the study of meaning in language. My original question to you was "What truth?" and you didn't respond with "The rumor's existence is true" Instead, you defended the rumor's veracity. So, I didn't define what the "truth" was in this case. I asked you what you thought it was, and thus let you define it. Then you changed your definition from the truthfulness of the rumor's content to the truth of the rumor's existence when your original approach didn't work. Just saying "Semantics" in response to that back and forth isn't adding any clarity to our discussion beyond stating the obvious: we are having a discussion about the meaning of a word, specifically your defining it in two different ways depending on which definition best suits your goal at the time.

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Your weak attempts to attack the messenger (me) on this for simply bringing this rumor to light, discussing the potential validity of it and my opinion on it, paints you in a very insecure light.
I've not attacked you for sharing the rumor. I questioned your decision to consider the rumor true simply based on precedent and your impulse to share or discuss such rumors without sufficient critical analysis and judgment to put it into proper perspective. For reference, this is what I said:

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What truth? These reports have been verified? It is a fact that unreleased films are a mess?
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So your use of the word "truth" was a mistake. Good. I'm glad we cleared that up.
I don't think it makes someone insecure to question a rumor's validity anymore than it makes someone secure to not question the validity of rumors. I don't think it's an issue of security at all, but rather prudence. It's important in all areas of our lives not to believe everything we hear and to evaluate information based on more than just trends and feelings.

I also later said, "That you would continue to make posts here and elsewhere that not only describe Geoff Johns potentially failing the DCEU and thus succeeding in living up to your expectations of his incompetence as 'good,' but also describe rumors and controversy about the DCEU as 'fun' paints a very unflattering picture of you as someone who wants things to fail and for people to suffer for your own selfish enjoyment." Notice how these criticisms have nothing to do with you sharing the rumor, but other actions or attitudes of yours. Specifically, I criticized how giddy you claim you are to see Geoff Johns fail and to have controversy swirl. It's mean-spirited to wish harm and unhappiness on others.

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Again, I didn't start this rumor. It came from Schmoes Know who previously reported that Suicide Squad was a mess. They are also ex-WB employees.
I never accused you of starting the rumor. Anyway, from what I can tell, it was a recurring guest on their show who isn't an ex-WB employee who said a friend of their's thought it was a mess. I believe both someone else from the Schmoes Know team and Mark Hughes have not verified or corroborated the rumor. Accordingly, while it could be true or there could some truth to it, there also may not be. Since it's not the truth -- only rumor -- it seems fair if people want to treat it with some healthy skepticism.

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Old 01-15-2017, 05:34 PM   #56
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It's unverified but unfortunately, this is the bed DC has made for itself. They've created an environment where someone can make an unsourced claim that Wonder Woman is gonna be terrible and people are gonna have an easy time believing it, because it was the same thing we heard about Suicide Squad.

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Old 01-15-2017, 06:09 PM   #57
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It's unverified but unfortunately, this is the bed DC has made for itself. They've created an environment where someone can make an unsourced claim that Wonder Woman is gonna be terrible and people are gonna have an easy time believing it, because it was the same thing we heard about Suicide Squad.
And deservedly so based on their track record. It might not be right but it's reality.

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Old 01-15-2017, 06:22 PM   #58
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It's unverified but unfortunately, this is the bed DC has made for itself. They've created an environment where someone can make an unsourced claim that Wonder Woman is gonna be terrible and people are gonna have an easy time believing it, because it was the same thing we heard about Suicide Squad.
I've not been discussing if it's believable, but whether it's the truth. I believe the Trump "golden shower" rumor, but I can't say it's definitely the truth.


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Old 01-15-2017, 06:27 PM   #59
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And deservedly so based on their track record. It might not be right but it's reality.
It's not THE reality, but A reality, depending on who you are and what your outlook is. Not everyone will let that track record influence their thinking in the same way or override their ability to be discerning about the quality of rumors.

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Old 01-16-2017, 12:00 AM   #60
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I remember a day where DC ruled. It was 2005-2008. BB and TDK, Marvel only had X-Men 3 and Spider-Man 3 which werent good. Things looked great, then about 2011, DC put out Green Lantern, thats when everything went down hill. Once Avengers came out, and all that success with their shared universe, DC completely went completely to crap. Rather than looking at their product, they focused on what Marvel was doing. Once they did that - it was over for us DC fans. Green Lantern and MoS. Then we thought BvS would have learned from its mistakes, but nope - it created new ones. The problem then turned into a film called Suicide Squad.

The good news for SHH moderators is that there is no more DC vs. Marvel debates. Because 95% of all of us is in an agreement Marvel is doing better than DC films. There is nothing to debate. Nothing to argue. Those days are over...
The debates turned into a battle between DC fans. Those that are enjoying the movies vs those that are not, and believe me there are a huge percentage of fans that fall into the former. Anytime new information about the DCEU is leaked, doesn't matter which character its about, the thread/forum turns into a warzone between detractors and supporters. It's for that very reason that the DC threads are more active than the Marvel ones. So the mods still have their work cut out for them.

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Old 01-16-2017, 12:19 AM   #61
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The debates turned into a battle between DC fans. Those that are enjoying the movies vs those that are not, and believe me there are a huge percentage of fans that fall into the former. Anytime new information about the DCEU is leaked, doesn't matter which character its about, the thread/forum turns into a warzone between detractors and supporters. It's for that very reason that the DC threads are more active than the Marvel ones. So the mods still have their work cut out for them.
Havent been on the forum long enough to notice that.... So now its DC fans vs. DC fans ? Like a fanboy civil war...

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Old 01-16-2017, 05:58 AM   #62
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I don't care for these rumors just because of one thing. They've always said the movie will be terrible yet I've always enjoyed it.

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Old 01-16-2017, 06:56 AM   #63
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Well, we were discussing the use of a word originally, so we were always having a semantic discussion. Semantics aren't inherently good or bad; they're just the study of meaning in language. My original question to you was "What truth?" and you didn't respond with "The rumor's existence is true" Instead, you defended the rumor's veracity. So, I didn't define what the "truth" was in this case. I asked you what you thought it was, and thus let you define it. Then you changed your definition from the truthfulness of the rumor's content to the truth of the rumor's existence when your original approach didn't work. Just saying "Semantics" in response to that back and forth isn't adding any clarity to our discussion beyond stating the obvious: we are having a discussion about the meaning of a word, specifically your defining it in two different ways depending on which definition best suits your goal at the time.



I've not attacked you for sharing the rumor. I questioned your decision to consider the rumor true simply based on precedent and your impulse to share or discuss such rumors without sufficient critical analysis and judgment to put it into proper perspective. For reference, this is what I said:





I don't think it makes someone insecure to question a rumor's validity anymore than it makes someone secure to not question the validity of rumors. I don't think it's an issue of security at all, but rather prudence. It's important in all areas of our lives not to believe everything we hear and to evaluate information based on more than just trends and feelings.

I also later said, "That you would continue to make posts here and elsewhere that not only describe Geoff Johns potentially failing the DCEU and thus succeeding in living up to your expectations of his incompetence as 'good,' but also describe rumors and controversy about the DCEU as 'fun' paints a very unflattering picture of you as someone who wants things to fail and for people to suffer for your own selfish enjoyment." Notice how these criticisms have nothing to do with you sharing the rumor, but other actions or attitudes of yours. Specifically, I criticized how giddy you claim you are to see Geoff Johns fail and to have controversy swirl. It's mean-spirited to wish harm and unhappiness on others.



I never accused you of starting the rumor. Anyway, from what I can tell, it was a recurring guest on their show who isn't an ex-WB employee who said a friend of their's thought it was a mess. I believe both someone else from the Schmoes Know team and Mark Hughes have not verified or corroborated the rumor. Accordingly, while it could be true or there could some truth to it, there also may not be. Since it's not the truth -- only rumor -- it seems fair if people want to treat it with some healthy skepticism.
It is worth nothing though that when Hughes and El Mayimbe were both asked about it on Twitter, they said they heard nothing of the sort from their sources and believe it's just "noise".

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Old 01-17-2017, 10:47 AM   #64
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http://www.polygon.com/2017/1/16/142...eck?yptr=yahoo

This is what DC is all about - not caring about the fans.... Ben Affleck is 'sick of people asking him about Batman'. I liked Affleck as Batman, but come on... What was he thinking when he signed up for Batman, the most popular comic book character of all time. OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL BOTHER HIM ALL THE TIME ABOUT BATMAN - ITS BATMAN !!! Did he think he could just sign the contract and think this was just 'another project'. Its a franchise.

I dont hear Chris Evans, Robert Downey Jr, Chris Hemsworth, or Mark Ruffalo say "i'm sick of talking about my Marvel character". In face Downey, the biggest A-Lister, is vocal about enjoying his work on the films and actually bashed indy films because of the lack of funds.

Everything about this DCCU is just a disaster for the fans. Even the actors dislike the hype.


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Old 01-17-2017, 10:54 AM   #65
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He's a grown man frustrated with having to answer the same question over and over again. Journalists are constantly asking him for updates when he has absolutely none to give, and the guy's venting about it. This is such a non-story.

Yeah, let's see how RDJ reacts if, while promoting a non-Marvel film, people constantly ask him, "SO WHEN'S IRON MAN 4 COMING OUT?"

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Old 01-17-2017, 10:57 AM   #66
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Latest twitter detective work of who is following who now points to Brad Peyton as a likely choice for the Shazam movie.

Brad Peyton has directed two movies starring the Rock, (Journey 2 the mysterious island, and San Andreas). And his next movie is the Rampage adaptation, also starring the Rock.

While Journey and Andreas didn't get the best reviews, (both hang slightly above 40% on rt). They where box office successes, and where noted for being fun/action/adventure CGI spectacles.


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Old 01-17-2017, 11:36 AM   #67
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He's a grown man frustrated with having to answer the same question over and over again. Journalists are constantly asking him for updates when he has absolutely none to give, and the guy's venting about it. This is such a non-story.

Yeah, let's see how RDJ reacts if, while promoting a non-Marvel film, people constantly ask him, "SO WHEN'S IRON MAN 4 COMING OUT?"
They did that with 'The Judge', they bugged him about Avengers Age of Ultron. He didn't whine like a little baby about it.

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Old 01-17-2017, 11:36 AM   #68
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DC Insider Slams ‘Wonder Woman’

Sally Japco,International Business Times 13 hours ago
After the mess that was “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice,” DC fans are hoping that the studio would pick up and wow them with the next offering, “Wonder Woman.” However, the movie is already getting negative reviews way before its release date.
According to Movie Web, Sasha Perl-Raver, host of the Schmoes Know show, reportedly talked to someone with insider info about the movie. This is what she said: “So, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. We have somebody within our community who has gotten insider information that broke my [effing] heart this week, because I have tremendous belief that ‘Wonder Woman’ is gonna be awesome and I heard it stinks from the same person who told me that they heard that 'BvS' stinks.”
The person she spoke to told her, “I'm very disappointed in what I saw, and it seems like all the problems are the same problems. It's discombobulated, it doesn't have narrative flow. It's just very disjointed.”
Despite this negative review, film producer Deborah Snyder assured fans that the superhero’s solo movie, which stars Gal Gadot as the titular character, will be quite different from the recent DC Comics cinematic efforts. “‘Wonder Woman’ is very different in tone and style than ‘Batman v Superman’ and ‘Suicide Squad,'” she told Variety. “We pick directors who have their own points of view, so that each of our films will have their own personality.”
The film’s leading man Chris Pine even said that the film, which is directed by Patty Jenkins, will have a little bit of everything - action, drama and romance - so it will definitely cater to a wide range of audiences.
“I think what’s really fun and exciting about it... different about it, actually, is that there’s a nice love story at the center of an action film, and I don’t think you see that often in these kinds of films,” he told The Huffington Post.

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Old 01-17-2017, 12:42 PM   #69
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Seriously, can the entertainment world, for one minute, just STOP saying WB/DC film X 'is shaping up to be a mess'. Seriously F**K off with this wish to burn something to the floor before anything has been released.
This. Seriously.

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Old 01-17-2017, 12:51 PM   #70
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They did that with 'The Judge', they bugged him about Avengers Age of Ultron. He didn't whine like a little baby about it.
Whatever you say, friend.

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Old 01-17-2017, 12:53 PM   #71
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I agree with Boy Scout....

Its an interesting time to be a comic book fan. Back in 2008 w/ Nolan Batman, DC was the king of the mountain. Those Nolan films showed how great DC could be if there was a great direction and story of the characters. So I remember lurking here back in the day and seeing so much massive arguments of DC vs. Marvel, and the mods were cracking down on the debates, banning people left and right....

Well, then Zack Snyder happened. Suddenly, it was almost a peaceful rejoice of the two fan boy bases. The Marvel guys said 'see, I told you', and the DC guys said 'well, DC let us down..'.

I was one of those DC guys I always felt DC had the two biggest names in the comic book world - Batman & Superman. I felt Nolan's Batman got it right and gave us three epic films. But then as soon as Nolan left, it became apparent, Nolan was the single reason for the success. We now have other directors attempt DC movies and wow, as a hardcore DC guy, I'm more frustrated at DC than anyone.

As I was growing up, I would never thought I would see the day where a Marvel 'Ant-Man' movie would be more entertaining, more well made than a Batman vs. Superman film. That single statistic alone baffles me. I don't understand how WB could fail so hard. Even as a DC fan, I will openly admit that any film Marvel puts out there will be better than any DC film now or being made. DC had its three Batman films since 2005, and its done. I mean, its over. DC might even be responsible for the superhero bubble to burst because they are completely obsessed with quantity over quality and its painfully obvious.

When you watch a Marvel movie, you think "wow, they really made a great entertaining movie". When you watch a DC film, you think "oh, the studio put this in there for this reason....oh, the studio is setting up a sequel with this thing.....oh, this is a reshoot because the studio was worried about the movie". Crap like that. Its frustrating. I can not leave my brain at the door when watching a DC movie because I'm so invested into the characters I grew up on. To casually say "oh well, the MARTHA scene wasnt good, but OH WELL!!!" , I cant do that. Instead, I think "these are grown adults, multi millionares, professionals who have been involved with film for a long time - how on Earth could they POSSIBLY think that Martha scene would be a good idea???"

I only write this post because I know Wonder Woman will most likely be a complete mess just like Man of Steel, just like Batman vs. Superman, and just like Suicide Squad. There is no hope left anymore. I now turn to Marvel films to get my comic book movie fix, because I know they will take their time, understand and respect the source material, and give the casual fans and the hardcore fans a very entertaining film.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if Wonder Woman sucks, I'm done with DC. I'm not seeing Justice League at the theater, I'll wait to rent it. If we want DC to change their ways, we have to start by not giving them our money. I'm glad their attempting to turn these icons into full length feature films, but the careless way they are doing it is not respecting the fans or the source material. Its insulting....

You have Guardians 2 which will prolly be good, Spider-Man Homecoming will prolly be interesting, and Thor 3 which could be the best out of the bunch.....Three Marvel films, I can count on at least one that will be entertaining and great. DC is batting 0/3 for me. I have NO guarantee that an upcoming DC movie will be good.

There are rumors that Affleck was considering leaving The Batman, another DC film had a director bail bc of WB non-sense, rumors of Justice League being a mess bc Studio is fighting with Zack Snyder, and now rumor of Wonder Woman being a complete mess..... This is what happens when you are trying to catch up with Marvel. This is what happens when you have no direction, but you just look at the money Marvel made and say 'I want that' rather than coming up with a plan of your own.

I wish I could 'leave my brain at the door' and enjoy DC movies, but I can't. Marvel set a very, very high bar, and I really did expect DC to exceed that bar, but they didn't even attempt. Just a quick cash grab. I am glad there are some ppl out there that enjoy Batman vs. Superman, my only response is that I will believe you are of the younger generation, someone who hasn't seen many films in their life time, someone who doesn't understand character motivations, character arcs, plot points, tone of a film, pacing and editing of a film. But hey, good for you ! I wish I was in your shoes. Instead, I can't help but hate certain scenes such as "Martha, thats my mother's name too, lets be best friends, wait wait, I'll go save your mother right now to prove our friendship is REAL". I was embarrassed for that film. I was embarrassed that there are professional filmmakers who think that was a good idea, it just exposes they are so out of touch with their craft and their source material, that they should all be fired.

I'm done ranting, read Boy Scout's post and thought I'd chime in.
I don't agree but I respect your opinions and that's a bummer that you haven't got what you've been looking for. So, you would like the Marvel tone of movies? I'm trying to see what different fans see that they like. I find the marvel movies to be very tounge in cheek, often campy. Campy, doesn't mean bad( and that's just MY opinion).
Would you agree marvel movies have a similar tone to Pirates if the Carribean? That's how I see them. They're just not for me. But if I had kids I'd certainly take them.
It really stinks because I loved MOS and BVS. MOS is actually a very special movie for me because of certain aspects and I know this time is over.
Going light, if for no other reason means kids and more kids. Kids buying tickets to see it multiple times.
I'll absolutely give the next couple movies a shot but I'm pessimistic that I'll continue to get the movies I loved. ( Didn't like Suicide Squad)

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Old 01-17-2017, 12:57 PM   #72
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[QUOTE=StarWars;34695211]They did that with 'The Judge', they bugged him about Avengers Age of Ultron. He didn't whine like a little baby about it.[/QUOTE

Who gives a f? Seriously. Non issue.

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Old 01-17-2017, 12:59 PM   #73
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Seriously. I make good money at my job. Doesn't mean I don't ***** when I get frustrated. Human beings vent. It's a way to relieve stress. It's such a non-issue, it's almost hilarious how people seem hellbent to make it a bigger deal than it really is.

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Old 01-17-2017, 01:08 PM   #74
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I don't agree but I respect your opinions and that's a bummer that you haven't got what you've been looking for. So, you would like the Marvel tone of movies? I'm trying to see what different fans see that they like. I find the marvel movies to be very tounge in cheek, often campy. Campy, doesn't mean bad( and that's just MY opinion).
Would you agree marvel movies have a similar tone to Pirates if the Carribean? That's how I see them. They're just not for me. But if I had kids I'd certainly take them.
It really stinks because I loved MOS and BVS. MOS is actually a very special movie for me because of certain aspects and I know this time is over.
Going light, if for no other reason means kids and more kids. Kids buying tickets to see it multiple times.
I'll absolutely give the next couple movies a shot but I'm pessimistic that I'll continue to get the movies I loved. ( Didn't like Suicide Squad)
And the DCEU movies aren't for a lot of people. We're not looking for them to fail, we just want them to be good to us. I know you don't care if they continued to make movies that you liked and others didn't as neither would most people.

But I don't know why you have such a fixation trying to liken the MCU to the Pirates movies. A lot of the Pirates stuff especially with Sparrow can be more slapstick. That's not the MCU. Plus, the Pirates movies have been increasing panned with each release.

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Old 01-17-2017, 01:45 PM   #75
Luke234
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Default Re: All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation

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Originally Posted by Erzengel View Post
And the DCEU movies aren't for a lot of people. We're not looking for them to fail, we just want them to be good to us. I know you don't care if they continued to make movies that you liked and others didn't as neither would most people.

But I don't know why you have such a fixation trying to liken the MCU to the Pirates movies. A lot of the Pirates stuff especially with Sparrow can be more slapstick. That's not the MCU. Plus, the Pirates movies have been increasing panned with each release.
I have only watched two pirates movies. I'm gonna guess there have been 5. I thought they had a similar younger in cheek vibe to them, very family friendly. I had no idea Pirates movies are panned. I actually figured they were well received.
A fixation? I think of what tone the movies have and Pirates comes to mind , which is also making zillion bucks like Marvel. I was ASKING someone if they thought they had the same tone. I see that jack sparrow is slap stick. I can see he is more in that direction for sure.
I was curious if others felt the same about the tone of movies and if it's what they like.
You answered with an opinion that no they aren't alike. All good, dude.

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