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Old 01-17-2017, 01:47 PM   #76
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I have only watched two pirates movies. I'm gonna guess there have been 5. I thought they had a similar younger in cheek vibe to them, very family friendly. I had no idea Pirates movies are panned. I actually figured they were well received.
A fixation? I think of what tone the movies have and Pirates comes to mind , which is also making zillion bucks like Marvel. I was ASKING someone if they thought they had the same tone. I see that jack sparrow is slap stick. I can see he is more in that direction for sure.
I was curious if others felt the same about the tone of movies and if it's what they like.
You answered with an opinion that no they aren't alike. All good, dude.
I fully understand DC has been divisive even among its comic followers. I don't like comics at all.

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Old 01-17-2017, 03:57 PM   #77
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I don't agree but I respect your opinions and that's a bummer that you haven't got what you've been looking for. So, you would like the Marvel tone of movies? I'm trying to see what different fans see that they like. I find the marvel movies to be very tounge in cheek, often campy. Campy, doesn't mean bad( and that's just MY opinion).
Would you agree marvel movies have a similar tone to Pirates if the Carribean? That's how I see them. They're just not for me. But if I had kids I'd certainly take them.
It really stinks because I loved MOS and BVS. MOS is actually a very special movie for me because of certain aspects and I know this time is over.
Going light, if for no other reason means kids and more kids. Kids buying tickets to see it multiple times.
I'll absolutely give the next couple movies a shot but I'm pessimistic that I'll continue to get the movies I loved. ( Didn't like Suicide Squad)
I wouldn't want DC to be 'light' like Marvel films. DC should do its own thing. If asking for my personal opinion - the only thing you should do similar to Marvel is respect the source material man. Using 'Martha' as a tool to get Superman and Batman to team up is insulting, silly and dumb. That is doing the same thing Schumacher did to Batman. You come up with silly stuff just because 'hey its a comic book movie, we are allowed to do silly stuff'.

The tone should be like the comics, dark in nature, non-campy. I was so excited when I thought BvS would be like Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. Instead it was such a mess of a film with silly one liners that was a clear rip off of Marvel films.

DC should simply respect its source material, come up with a game plan if you want to connect these films in a shared universe, and do its own thing - not copy Marvel's blue print. Not change things to make it more like Marvel.

The DC cinematic universe is such a mess right now and as a hardcore fan, its such a shame that a great DC film has only been produced by three directors - Donner, Burton and Nolan. Beyond them, it seems so hopeless. If Wonder Woman is a mess, I'm out of DC, I'm done. I'm finished. No Justice League movie for me. Justice League w/ Darkseid could have been the greatest film of all time if done correctly, surpassing Avengers by far.

I only voice my opinion as a DC fan.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:01 PM   #78
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Using 'Martha' as a tool to get Superman and Batman to team up is insulting, silly and dumb.
Explain.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:03 PM   #79
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Explain.
Really dude ??

Its self explanatory. If you're baiting me into a debate over the 'martha' scene, regardless of what you think, its laughed at by a majority of film goers.

On that note, the Martha scene was perhaps probably just as bad as when Batman and Robin had the ice skates on their boots and played hockey with the diamond. Those scenes are equal in terms of quality, imo.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:05 PM   #80
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Just because something might make sense on paper doesn't mean it isn't gonna seem silly in execution.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:09 PM   #81
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Why is the Martha scene "silly" and why does it deserve to be laughed at? Why does it make an especially poor catalyst for Batman and Superman to move from enemies and strangers to people willing to get to know each other and become allies?

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:10 PM   #82
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Because ending the fight by having Superman scream "Martha!" was really silly. Not sure what else needs to be explained.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:20 PM   #83
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Because ending the fight by having Superman scream "Martha!" was really silly. Not sure what else needs to be explained.
What makes something silly? Define silly, then explain how the scene fulfills that criteria. That is how you explain why something seemed silly to you. Describing the scene and then labeling it silly isn't an explanation or analysis, because you have yet to answer the question: Why? Why is it silly?

Also, it's important to note that Superman didn't just scream "Martha!" He said, "You're letting him kill Martha. Save Martha!" and then Lois came in, threw herself between Batman's spear and her lover, Superman, and explained who Martha was. Batman took all of that information in and saw in the scene and in the dilemma put before him -- Superman did have human attachments and humanity, a son's mother was in danger, a woman's lover was in danger, and he was the villain who was preventing their rescue -- and thus he saw that he had become the villain of his own childhood trauma and nightmare. He could choose to be the villain or be the hero. He chose being the hero. It was a rebirth of sorts, as he was once again committing himself to what Batman was for him from the start: a way to stop criminals from doing to others what had been done to him, which in this case was destroying families through violence.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:21 PM   #84
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Because ending the fight by having Superman scream "Martha!" was really silly. Not sure what else needs to be explained.
This.

It really doesn't need to be explained.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:23 PM   #85
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What makes something silly? Define silly, then explain how the scene fulfills that criteria. That is how you explain why something seemed silly to you. Describing the scene and then labeling it silly isn't an explanation or analysis, because you have yet to answer the question: Why? Why is it silly?

Also, it's important to note that Superman didn't just scream "Martha!" He said, "You're letting him kill Martha. Save Martha!" and then Lois came in, threw herself between Batman's spear and her lover, Superman, and explained who Martha was. Batman took all of that information in and saw in the scene and in the dilemma put before him -- Superman did have human attachments and humanity, a son's mother was in danger, a woman's lover was in danger, and he was the villain who was preventing their rescue -- and thus he saw that he had become the villain of his own childhood trauma and nightmare. He could choose to be the villain or be the hero. He chose being the hero. It was a rebirth of sorts, as he was once again committing himself to what Batman was for him from the start: a way to stop criminals from doing to others what had been done to him, which in this case was destroying families through violence.
Can you really not see how the Martha scene was silly / stupid ??? Can you not comprehend movie story lines on what works and what doesnt ? I dont mean to offend you, I'm just wondering if you can or can't comprehend what is a good idea and a bad idea.....

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:25 PM   #86
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Define silly, then explain how the scene fulfills that criteria.
Nah, I'm good. It's pretty self explanatory.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:27 PM   #87
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Nah, I'm good. It's pretty self explanatory.
Exactly....."PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE SKY IS BLUE ?? WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF BLUE ?? I AM NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS DEFINITION OF BLUE ?? WHO TOLD YOU IT WAS BLUE?"

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:27 PM   #88
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Can you really not see how the Martha scene was silly / stupid ??? Can you not comprehend movie story lines on what works and what doesnt ? I dont mean to offend you, I'm just wondering if you can or can't comprehend what is a good idea and a bad idea.....
This isn't about understanding, since this is subjective. Help me understand your different point of view. If it's so obvious, surely it would be easy to explain it to me. Why resort to condescension when you could illuminate us all with your slam dunk of an explanation? I explained how I saw the scene, so how about you put in the effort and help me see your point of view.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:28 PM   #89
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This isn't about understanding, since this is subjective. Help me understand your different point of view. If it's so obvious, surely it would be easy to explain it to me. Why resort to condescension when you could illuminate us all with your slam dunk of an explanation? I explained how I saw the scene, so how about you put in the effort and help me see your point of view.
Nah, I'm good... The Martha scene being silly is self explanatory.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:29 PM   #90
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Exactly....."PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE SKY IS BLUE ?? WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF BLUE ?? I AM NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS DEFINITION OF BLUE ?? WHO TOLD YOU IT WAS BLUE?"
Whether something is silly is subjective. The color of something is not. Surely you understand the difference. What makes something silly to you and why is the Martha scene silly? Indulge me.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:29 PM   #91
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misslane, I have seen you debating many times with people over the stupidity of the Martha scene, including with myself. You should know well enough by now why people find it stupid. You're acting like this is the first time you've heard someone call it stupid.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:32 PM   #92
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Nah, I'm good. It's pretty self explanatory.
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Nah, I'm good... The Martha scene being silly is self explanatory.
Why are you repeating each other almost word for word? Why is it so hard for you to explain something that is supposedly so simple and obvious? Why you think something is silly is not self-explanatory to me. Even two people who think it's silly might have different reasons for why they think it's silly.

So, I'll accept that you aren't willing to share your perspective, but that doesn't help me appreciate your point of view, which is what I was hoping to do.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:37 PM   #93
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misslane, I have seen you debating many times with people over the stupidity of the Martha scene, including with myself. You should know well enough by now why people find it stupid. You're acting like this is the first time you've heard someone call it stupid.
I like to see how other people are able to explain it. I know that it's an opinion some have and I know why some people feel that way because they have shared their individual perspective, but each person can have a unique way of looking at it even if the opinion is the same. I am curious if everyone who feels this way does for the same reasons and if they have minds of their own to explain why it's silly rather than just parroting what other people have said.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:37 PM   #94
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It is a death match between two people ending because they find out their moms share a name. That is silly.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:37 PM   #95
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Why are you repeating each other almost word for word? Why is it so hard for you to explain something that is supposedly so simple and obvious? Why you think something is silly is not self-explanatory to me. Even two people who think it's silly might have different reasons for why they think it's silly.

So, I'll accept that you aren't willing to share your perspective, but that doesn't help me appreciate your point of view, which is what I was hoping to do.
If you really need clarification by us or explanations / break downs on what is silly in a film, then you are really not intelligent enough to understand someone else perspective. No offense, but you just aren't qualified to understand things that are simple / clear because of whatever is going on with you.

Good luck in life trying to figure out what its like to be in someone else shoes.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:42 PM   #96
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I like to see how other people are able to explain it. I know that it's an opinion some have and I know why some people feel that way because they have shared their individual perspective, but each person can have a unique way of looking at it even if the opinion is the same. I am curious if everyone who feels this way does for the same reasons and if they have minds of their own to explain why it's silly rather than just parroting what other people have said.
Why would you assume people are parroting what others are saying? Did it not occur to you that the reasons it's found stupid are common? That people have just reached the same conclusion. It's not a complex scene. There's not multiple possibilities why someone would have a problem with it.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:46 PM   #97
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It is a death match between two people ending because they find out their moms share a name. That is silly.
That isn't what happened. It was MORE than that. The name didn't stop Batman. He was still angry and poised to hurt Superman after hearing the name. It was ultimately Lois' presence that stopped him combined with knowing that Martha was in danger. Batman saw that he had become like the man who killed his parents. He relived his childhood trauma with him in the villain's shoes. He learned that he was (a) letting Lex kill a son's mother and an innocent human being (b) he had the power to save this person who was also a son's mother and named Martha, so a chance to do for Clark's mother what he hadn't been able to do for his own mother, (c) was threatening a man who had a woman who loved him -- Lois -- and who was willing to put her life on the line to protect him in a scene that visually reminded him of the night his parents -- a couple who loved each other -- were killed, and (d) Superman was more human and had more human attachments than he had believed.

See, Joker, this is why I like explanations. Because I get to see how flimsy the reasoning is.

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If you really need clarification by us or explanations / break downs on what is silly in a film, then you are really not intelligent enough to understand someone else perspective. No offense, but you just aren't qualified to understand things that are simple / clear because of whatever is going on with you.

Good luck in life trying to figure out what its like to be in someone else shoes.
Ah, I see. You continue to choose condescension and personal attacks. My job is literally to ask questions to understand and to help: I'm a teacher and a counselor with advanced degrees in both. Suffice it to say, I'm done discussing this with you. I don't talk to people who won't even attempt to be civil.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #98
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Why would you assume people are parroting what others are saying? Did it not occur to you that the reasons it's found stupid are common? That people have just reached the same conclusion. It's not a complex scene. There's not multiple possibilities why someone would have a problem with it.
First of all, it is a complex scene. Second, whether or not the reasons most people dislike the scene or find it silly are common is irrelevant. I am curious about how people arrive at the same conclusions. I am interested in how different fans explain their reasoning. If the scene really does lack complexity and the reasons why it is silly are so transparent and easy to explain, then it should be very simple to provide an explanation to someone who asks for one. The kneejerk defensiveness -- the absolute refusal to explain something -- is something I find very suspect.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:53 PM   #99
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That isn't what happened.
It is the end result, yes. That is what I was referring to when I said something can make sense on paper and still seem really stupid in execution. I understand entirely what the intent was and what they were going for with the callback to Thomas Wayne's last words. It just really didn't work and came across as silly. It's simple.

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Old 01-17-2017, 04:55 PM   #100
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See, Joker, this is why I like explanations. Because I get to see how flimsy the reasoning is.
Because if you don't like the Martha moment, you must have flimsy reasons for doing so

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It is the end result, yes. That is what I was referring to when I said something can make sense on paper and still seem really stupid in execution. I understand entirely what the intent was and what they were going for with the callback to Thomas Wayne's last words. It just really didn't work and came across as silly.
Yup.

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