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Old 02-08-2017, 01:42 PM   #51
Luke234
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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But are we talking about the entire 80-year tenure of the character? If so, I think a good case could be made that Superman was indeed “overpowered” back in the Silver Age of comics. (And stuff like “turning back time” in STM was a remnant of this Silver Age sensibility.) Hence, the reason why - in more recent decades - Supes’ power level has been dialed back some.

Now, the OP specifically mentioned movies; and presumably this means the recent ones: SR, MOS, BvS. But amongst the various criticisms leveled at these films I don’t recall “overpowered” ever being a serious complaint. (“Too dark,” “too serious,” “too little action,” “too much action” were more typical concerns.) So in that sense, yes, the problem is a “myth” - because it’s a “straw man” argument.
Can't this answer be simply he's too overpowered for some people to find interesting but not too much for other people?
From the very little I know, I would assume any alien MAY have the ability to beat Superman and I read he's not invulnerable to magic.
I personally don't want to see a Superman that stops bank robbers. I mean, it wouldn't be terrible if he did but I'd almost use those for me moments of levity people are pining for.
He IS too powerful for ordinary criminals. But that's fine with me.

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Old 02-08-2017, 09:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

Superman's powers are never the issue. It sure is not relatability either as we can relate to him through Clark Kent, who is married, has a child to raise, and has job. The real problems are likability, inconsistency, and how the writers have written him over the years.

Even is Superman is too powerful and has super-speed, he can't be everywhere at once.

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Old 02-08-2017, 11:29 PM   #53
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

Any good story will present a challenge to the hero of the story, and the villain will test the hero where the hero is most weak. When you have a character like Superman, who has incredible power and ability, you have to get creative.

For instance, in Superman II, when Zod realized that Supes cared for the citizens of Metropolis, he used the threat of killing innocents to force Superman's hand. Supes' caring nature became a "weakness" Zod could exploit. Now, Supes could have kept fighting Zod in Metropolis to stop him, but that would mean death for innocent citizens. Instead, he took off to the Fortress and Zod followed.

That's the writer's challenge: take that "character" of Superman and make him face challenges that his abilities won't fix or cannot solve right away. Make him "think outside the box".

When Supes can just punch his way through his problems, this is the height of boredom. Darkseid is a great villain, not only because Darkseid is stronger, but because he often creates problems that Supes cannot simply fix by punching.

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Old 02-09-2017, 11:45 AM   #54
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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Any good story will present a challenge to the hero of the story, and the villain will test the hero where the hero is most weak. When you have a character like Superman, who has incredible power and ability, you have to get creative.

For instance, in Superman II, when Zod realized that Supes cared for the citizens of Metropolis, he used the threat of killing innocents to force Superman's hand. Supes' caring nature became a "weakness" Zod could exploit. Now, Supes could have kept fighting Zod in Metropolis to stop him, but that would mean death for innocent citizens. Instead, he took off to the Fortress and Zod followed.

That's the writer's challenge: take that "character" of Superman and make him face challenges that his abilities won't fix or cannot solve right away. Make him "think outside the box".
What happened then?
Well, in Metropolis they say that Zod's small heart grew 3 sizes that day.
And then the true meaning of Superman came through.


You have to also make sure your villain is egotistical enough to stop to then villify/belittle/mock your hero and
not pursue his/her goals of global dominance just to take care of a petty squabble.

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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You have to also make sure your villain is egotistical enough to stop to then villify/belittle/mock your hero and
not pursue his/her goals of global dominance just to take care of a petty squabble.
Doesn't that pretty much describe all movie villains? That seems to be a stock character in the James Bond movies.

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Old 02-09-2017, 12:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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Doesn't that pretty much describe all movie villains? That seems to be a stock character in the James Bond movies.
Stamp's Zod is as stereotypical/incompetent as they come.
Modern filmmakers find ways to either avoid, parody, or put a clever enough spin to that.

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Old 02-09-2017, 01:00 PM   #57
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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What happened then?
Well, in Metropolis they say that Zod's small heart grew 3 sizes that day.
And then the true meaning of Superman came through.


You have to also make sure your villain is egotistical enough to stop to then villify/belittle/mock your hero and
not pursue his/her goals of global dominance just to take care of a petty squabble.
Vengeance is often the catalyst for many great villains. (Captain Ahab comes to mind). More than world dominance, Zod wanted to subjugate the child of his jailer. Making Supes "kneel before Zod" was his driving force, his goal. Not necessarily logical perhaps, but certainly compelling and befitting of his character. Gotta create those characters with human qualities. Makes for good drama and good stories.

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Old 02-09-2017, 01:20 PM   #58
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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Vengeance is often the catalyst for many great villains. (Captain Ahab comes to mind). More than world dominance, Zod wanted to subjugate the child of his jailer. Making Supes "kneel before Zod" was his driving force, his goal. Not necessarily logical perhaps, but certainly compelling and befitting of his character. Gotta create those characters with human qualities. Makes for good drama and good stories.
Vengeance is the catalyst of many villains.
Great villains behoove those that make it so.
Not necessarily compelling either if that one-note portrayal and pettiness isn't developed to be human enough.

We have now gone from Superman being overpowered to his villains not being that interesting either.

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Old 02-09-2017, 01:55 PM   #59
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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Vengeance is the catalyst of many villains.
Great villains behoove those that make it so.
Not necessarily compelling either if that one-note portrayal and pettiness isn't developed to be human enough.

We have now gone from Superman being overpowered to his villains not being that interesting either.
Yeah I don't think the problem with Superman stories are his powers. You can create compelling stories with an overpowered hero by attacking the hero's weaknesses.

Zod in Superman II was a fine villain. A caricature as a character? Sure. But we knew what his motivation was and Stamp did a good job acting it out. My point with Zod was that you don't have to "de-power" the character of Superman, you just have to use other aspects of Supes in order to "hit him where it hurts". Zod tried and failed to beat Superman in a fist fight, so, he just used his love of the people of Metropolis against him. That's one example of how you create a compelling challenge for an overpowered hero.

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Old 02-09-2017, 02:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

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My point with Zod was that you don't have to "de-power" the character of Superman, you just have to use other aspects of Supes in order to "hit him where it hurts". Zod tried and failed to beat Superman in a fist fight, so, he just used his love of the people of Metropolis against him. That's one example of how you create a compelling challenge for an overpowered hero.
Yet where it hurts is existential or deconstructing how he's too idealistic.
For this basic attribute of any superhero to be compelling, the verdict falls on the execution.

I'm all eyes if Superman has more relatable and distinguishable (distinct to this character) weaknesses.

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Old 02-09-2017, 02:34 PM   #61
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Default Re: 'Superman is too overpowered'... is a MYTH

Zod in S11 was a good villain... When I was a teenager.

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