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Old 04-22-2014, 11:32 AM   #1
Metal Spidey
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Default I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Disclaimer: This is not a troll thread. I'm very serious.

I finally got around to watching Man of Steel and as far as I can see it was Zod and the other kyptonians who caused the most destruction. But people talk as if it was Superman who was carelessly wrecking the city in his battle against them. The only time I'd say that was true was in his one-on-one with Zod. But even then it was mainly Zod tossing Superman around. It's not like two people with their power can have a battle in a city and not get thrown into a building or two. Anyway, that's all I have to say. Maybe I missed a part during a quick bathroom break but from what I saw I didn't see Superman be as reckless as people said.

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Old 04-22-2014, 11:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Who lured Zod and co to Earth?

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Old 04-22-2014, 03:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Originally Posted by The Endless View Post
Who lured Zod and co to Earth?
If you're going to use that logic, you can apply it to almost all superheroes.

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Old 04-22-2014, 10:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Who lured Zod and co to Earth?
Wrong word bro.

"Lured" implies he did it on purpose (like a Fisherman lures fish), he had no idea that Zod and co were even out there (because Jor El's AI didn't know they survived Krypton's destruction.

You have a point though, there is a causal connection between Clark finding the ship and Zod finding Earth. But, unless there was some intent on Clark's part to draw Zod, or any Kryptonians, here (which we've already established there wasn't) you can't really blame him for it.

Interestingly, your argument is most often applied to Batman, and Spider Man that some of their most evil and violent enemies only exist because of them - probably the Joker being the best example, and from time to time it does come up in the comics, about whether Batman is partially to blame for the Joker's appalling crimes -and the corollary argument which is that
Batman should kill the Joker, to prevent his future offending.

In an interesting inversion of that, often Luthor is portrayed as a greedy, scumbag, but some writers portray him as obsessed with Superman, and that if he could let go of that obsession, could pretty much save mankind
single-handed, cure cancer etc. It's Superman that stops him from being
a benefactor to humanity.

So, in summary, I see your point, but I think it's misapplied here.

cheers

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Old 04-22-2014, 10:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Looks like Godzilla hit it.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




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Who lured Zod and co to Earth?
Wouldn't that be the issue for Lex, or even Batman?

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Old 04-23-2014, 08:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

[QUOTE=Harley2004;28557735]Looks like Godzilla hit it.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




that was caused by the world engine. superman wasn't even near metroplis when that happened.

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Old 05-09-2014, 04:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

I don't like how the film shows such damage without showing much of the human element (people complaining their shop is destroyed, people scared), etc.

But I don't think you can blame the character because he was too busy in the fights and we know from his actions in the rest of the film he cares about human life. It is a fault of the film/editing, not the character.

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Old 06-04-2014, 07:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

[QUOTE=tacit-ronin-;28565161]
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Originally Posted by Harley2004 View Post
Looks like Godzilla hit it.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:




that was caused by the world engine. superman wasn't even near metroplis when that happened.
The World Engine caused quite a bit of damage, but the majority from that scene is from Zod's ship crashing into several buildings that Superman brought down. They could of easily of had Clark shove the crashing ship into the ocean behind them which is in the shot as the ship starts to crash, instead he's still in the ship as in comes crashing down.

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Old 04-22-2014, 07:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

He wasn't that reckless and didn't "smash half of Metropolis." Some people didn't pay attention to the movie and choose to criticize what they didn't give their full attention to.

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Old 04-22-2014, 10:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Spidey View Post
Disclaimer: This is not a troll thread. I'm very serious.

I finally got around to watching Man of Steel and as far as I can see it was Zod and the other kyptonians who caused the most destruction. But people talk as if it was Superman who was carelessly wrecking the city in his battle against them. The only time I'd say that was true was in his one-on-one with Zod. But even then it was mainly Zod tossing Superman around. It's not like two people with their power can have a battle in a city and not get thrown into a building or two. Anyway, that's all I have to say. Maybe I missed a part during a quick bathroom break but from what I saw I didn't see Superman be as reckless as people said.

You're completely right, and you didn't miss anything. It was pretty much all Zod and his krypto buddies. Yes, Supes was a bit reckless in Smallville, as in when he first tackles Zod and they fly through the grain silos and the petrol station (and when he tackles Faora into the Ihop) but hey, it was his first day as Superman, so really, that's to be expected.

If you watch the Metropolis fight, its Zod who takes it down to street level.
Supes punches him over top of the buildings, presumably to avoid property damage. All those people

I mean, he'd never been in a fight before and never been able to cut loose with his powers, so really he probably didn't realise how much damage he could do.

However, the people who did the most damage in Smallville were the air force jets who fired missiles and strafed down the main street ! (and when their jets crashed that did a ton of property damage too, same thing in metropolis ). The train that Nam Ek threw actually did less damage than the jets.

Personally, I think people were so surprised by the scale of the carnage, compared to previous Superman films (particularly the human casualties) that they responded on more of an emotional level to it.

Something else, and I think this was intentional, lots of people ***** that Superman didn't try and save anyone during the fights. Actually, he did, he saved the following helicopter gunner.....and what happens when he does that POW ! He gets nailed, and Faora is left free to slaughter those soldiers. I think Snyder was making a point there that during a full on fight to the death, you can't turn your back on an opponent (especially those as dangerous as Superman was facing).

So, big ups to you for actually watching the movie and not just buying into all the negative hype.

cheers,


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Old 05-20-2014, 01:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
You're completely right, and you didn't miss anything. It was pretty much all Zod and his krypto buddies. Yes, Supes was a bit reckless in Smallville, as in when he first tackles Zod and they fly through the grain silos and the petrol station (and when he tackles Faora into the Ihop) but hey, it was his first day as Superman, so really, that's to be expected.

If you watch the Metropolis fight, its Zod who takes it down to street level.
Supes punches him over top of the buildings, presumably to avoid property damage. All those people

I mean, he'd never been in a fight before and never been able to cut loose with his powers, so really he probably didn't realise how much damage he could do.

However, the people who did the most damage in Smallville were the air force jets who fired missiles and strafed down the main street ! (and when their jets crashed that did a ton of property damage too, same thing in metropolis ). The train that Nam Ek threw actually did less damage than the jets.

Personally, I think people were so surprised by the scale of the carnage, compared to previous Superman films (particularly the human casualties) that they responded on more of an emotional level to it.

Something else, and I think this was intentional, lots of people ***** that Superman didn't try and save anyone during the fights. Actually, he did, he saved the following helicopter gunner.....and what happens when he does that POW ! He gets nailed, and Faora is left free to slaughter those soldiers. I think Snyder was making a point there that during a full on fight to the death, you can't turn your back on an opponent (especially those as dangerous as Superman was facing).

So, big ups to you for actually watching the movie and not just buying into all the negative hype.

cheers,


This. 100% this.

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Old 04-23-2014, 12:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

because it's superman. there shouldn't be any destruction at all! he should have saved all.
whereas it's ok for other superheroes, because they ain't super.

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Old 04-23-2014, 12:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
However, the people who did the most damage in Smallville were the air force jets who fired missiles and strafed down the main street ! (and when their jets crashed that did a ton of property damage too, same thing in metropolis ). The train that Nam Ek threw actually did less damage than the jets.
I forgot to mention the military. They did a considerable amount of damage as well.

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Personally, I think people were so surprised by the scale of the carnage, compared to previous Superman films (particularly the human casualties) that they responded on more of an emotional level to it.
True. However they should've criticized the director and the film itself rather than making it seem like Superman was a rampaging beast.

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So, big ups to you for actually watching the movie and not just buying into all the negative hype.
I use reviews as a guideline but I always make up my own mind in the end. The same goes for video games. If I always went by the reviews I'd have never gotten into some of my most favorite games. Some people need to take a chill pill and enjoy things without looking towards the negative.

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Old 04-23-2014, 12:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

As I've said before, it's really no different than in the comics. Not like Superman was gonna be able to appeal to Zod & co.'s humanity.

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Old 04-23-2014, 08:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Superman should have taken Zod out for a beer and calmly worked out their troubles.

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Old 05-23-2014, 09:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Come on guys. Watch :56 and on in silence.



If Webster had a video under the word reckless, it would be this.

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Old 05-23-2014, 10:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Come on guys. Watch :56 and on in silence.



If Webster had a video under the word reckless, it would be this.
Sorry, but with the greatest respect, I have to disagree with you there.

The word Reckless (particularly in law) implies you know the risks and consciously disregard them. Here Clark probably wasn't aware of the risks at all.

This is Superman on his first day on the job.
He's never been in a fight before, and has no idea just how powerful he is. True he takes out the grain silos and the gas station, but that's understandable, he probably didn't expect to go that far.

If he'd been Superman with vast experience at battling evil, particularly super-powered evil of comparable strength and durability to himself, yup
then it would be reckless.

Under these circumstances, Reckless isn't the right word.

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Old 05-23-2014, 11:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.

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Old 05-30-2014, 03:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.
people holds a higher moral code for superman. but then again, they are the same type of people complaining him being boring and dull as a scout boy.

batman is needed to slap their face repeatedly. and it's ok. because he is batman.

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Old 05-30-2014, 03:59 AM   #20
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.
Right?

That's the thing I take issue the most with criticism of Man of Steel--the double standard.

Batman could have easily killed those cops when he ran over their car in Batman Begins. The cops who chased him could have died in wrecks. There could have been people in cars that he blew up while being chased. Hell, even Alfred told him it was a miracle no one was killed.

Any complaints about that? None that I heard.

Thor, Hulk and Iron Man caused a hella lot of destruction in NYC. Iron Man brought down one of the Leviathans RIGHT above some civilians. Thor and Hulk crashed one right in a crowded Grand Central Station.

Anyone ***** about those instances? Nope, people cheered them on because The Avengers was so fun and they cracked jokes while killing aliens.

Speaking of killing aliens...nary a peep about the Avengers killing. And yes, they did kill the Chitauri. I guess it's ok because the Chitauri didn't look human, and again, the Avengers were cracking jokes while killing them.

I guess if Superman gave us a wink and a smile while taking on Zod and crew, he'd have been forgiven.

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Old 07-20-2014, 04:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Remember.... Batman running over cop cars with cops inside them, or Hulk and Thor crashing a Leviathan into Grand Central is not reckless and must not be judged. Superman losing his cool because Martha Kent, HIS MOTHER, is being threatened must be excoriated for all time.
Did anyone say what is in bold? No one is excusing Batman's behavior in particular and I don't have a problem with cops in the Nolan films holding him accountable for his behavior.

It should be noted, however, Batman was trying to get Rachel who was poisoned to the Batcave and police were hostile, so his desparate behavior is somewhat understandable. The concept of being a vigilante not directly working with police includes taking risks that have potential for recklesness.

I don't see how you can compare that Superman intentionally destroying buildings. It doesn't make sense for you to punch General Zod miles away through several buildings and leave your mother lying on the dirt ground with his two deadly henchmen. I can see punching General Zod and his henchmen away and then flying away with mother. What we saw in Man of Steel didn't make much sense or inspire hope into movie going audience.

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Old 07-22-2014, 06:48 AM   #22
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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Did anyone say what is in bold? No one is excusing Batman's behavior in particular and I don't have a problem with cops in the Nolan films holding him accountable for his behavior.

It should be noted, however, Batman was trying to get Rachel who was poisoned to the Batcave and police were hostile, so his desparate behavior is somewhat understandable. The concept of being a vigilante not directly working with police includes taking risks that have potential for recklesness.

I don't see how you can compare that Superman intentionally destroying buildings. It doesn't make sense for you to punch General Zod miles away through several buildings and leave your mother lying on the dirt ground with his two deadly henchmen. I can see punching General Zod and his henchmen away and then flying away with mother. What we saw in Man of Steel didn't make much sense or inspire hope into movie going audience.
Superman intentionally destroying buildings, when did that happen ?

In Smallville Superman clearly lost his cool at first, there was nothing intentional there - plus that Superman's first fight ever, first use of his superstrength and speed/flight in a combat situation. So we can expect him to look pretty sloppy.

What we saw was a raw, green Superman on day one of his Earth-saving career. He clearly didn't think that through. One of the best things about Man of Steel was Superman doing the best he could, and getting stuff wrong.
If you watch the honest trailer for Man of Steel, Nick Mundy goes off his head and makes a bunch of generalizations about things he didn't like in the film....
but they're things that didn't actually happen. It's like his impression of the film was so unpalatable that he couldn't accept what he was actually seeing.

As such, I think a lot of people are put off by the sheer scope of destruction.
Personally, I find it weird, because in the comics stuff gets messed up all the time. That clip where the poster compares it to a visit by Godzilla, well to be honest, for Superman to get involved, the stakes should be pretty high.
That's what makes it a job for Superman.

As far as Batman goes. If we take a minute and stop thinking of him as the hero of the film and look at his actions he makes lots of questionable moves
- squashing the cop cars is one, but the mines against the cop cars is even worse, those cops would have been badly hurt.
Kind of like in TDK when instead of trying to talk down the SWAT team, he just bashes them. I remember seeing it and thinking......hmmmm maybe he could have at least tried to say something. But who knows, maybe Batman knows that Gotham SWAT are just trigger happy and didn't think he had the time.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter ! He's Batman and we let that stuff go.

As far as Superman inspiring Hope, well personally I found it quite hopeful that he was willing to kill to protect his adopted home. That he made a tough choice and didn't cop out. Also that he found the strength to destroy the world engine and save humanity, well that was pretty hopeful

Hey, if you didn't like it, fair enough. I respect your opinion, but totally
disagree.
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Old 05-23-2014, 11:43 PM   #23
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.

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Old 05-29-2014, 10:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

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Old 05-29-2014, 10:48 AM   #25
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Default Re: I don't see where Superman caused so much destruction

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It's just the angry Donner/Reeve fanboys who are looking to start a fight talking. They can't handle change very well.
That statement is just as offensive to non-Donner fans who like classic Superman

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