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Old 04-23-2014, 04:39 PM   #301
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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No, he falls off the building onto a car. Watch it again mon cheri.
Ehhh yeah I know he falls but no Spidey powers would make him go splat on the street.

He was Spidey again that's why he said no no to MJ when she tried to rekindle their relationship. He was being Spidey again.

Sorry mon ami.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:42 PM   #302
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You're half right. It's every bit as amazing as a Spider-Man movie as it is as a movie. Spider-Man not spouting one liners all the time is the most minor petty complaint. If he had none at all then it would be valid but he had several.

Spider-Man breaking a promise to a dead man, Peter acting like an a-hole to people around him, Harry being the Goblin before Norman, The Lizard having no family etc are all bigger more important things that were wrong or missing from the Spider-Man mythology.



No folks, it wasn't. The others were also mentioned like the riding up the crotch line, and the I have a knack for that quip.



Let me get this straight, you ignore the heroics, the moral code of the character, the honoring of great power with great responsibility etc, and pin everything that makes Spider-Man who he is down to his quips?

No offense but if you do then you severely lack understanding of who Spider-Man is.
The fact that there are only 2 or 3 quips in the entire movie is a pretty big let down as there are that many in an episode of Spectacular. Plus they were pretty weak too.

Raimi got all the everything that you mention down and that is the reason why Spider Man 2 is regarded a great film, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Spider Man the character was lacking personality. He really felt like it can be anyone under the mask.

The two different franchises, IMO, are polar opposites and what ASM excels in is what the original franchises lacked and vice versa. I enjoy ASM way more though because I enjoy watching Spider Man and I don't think he needs villains to carry him like how Batman was completely outshined by Joker and Bane. Of course it would be nice if they can get a villain to match Spidey, but just as long as they get Spider Man right, I won't have too much to complain about.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:44 PM   #303
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That's the kind of brilliance we're talking about here with this movie.
Brilliance? Look, I realize you just took film or writing classes for the first time and you like to show off how you can pick up on thematic nuance, but come back when you can pick up on them and then determine quality beyond that for realizing a script can fail for several other reasons.

For instance, in Superman Returns Superman was reciting Jor El's speech to his kid. On a meta-level, that was Bryan Singer saying the reigns of the Donner movie had been passed to him. The entire movie was the "child" of the old movie.

Brilliant!..... but it was still a stupid stupid Superman movie, just as Spider-Man 2 maybe be academic level film making, but (should be!) a disgrace to real Spider-Man fans.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:48 PM   #304
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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The fact that there are only 2 or 3 quips in the entire movie is a pretty big let down as there are that many in an episode of Spectacular. Plus they were pretty weak too.
Spectacular is a cartoon show. It's cartoony.

If fans need Spider-Man motor mouthing quips for the character to work for them then the Raimi franchise would have been a flop.

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Raimi got all the everything that you mention down and that is the reason why Spider Man 2 is regarded a great film, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Spider Man the character was lacking personality. He really felt like it can be anyone under the mask.
I don't believe that. I don't believe anyone really believes that the quips are the sole thing that define Spider-Man, and without them it could be anyone under the mask.

Only a non Spider-Man fan could think that because they are blatantly ignoring the moral code of the character, the great power comes great responsibility credo he's living by etc.

Spider-Man is not and never has been defined by just the quips. Not ever.

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The two different franchises, IMO, are polar opposites and what ASM excels in is what the original franchises lacked and vice versa. I enjoy ASM way more though because I enjoy watching Spider Man and I don't think he needs villains to carry him like how Batman was completely outshined by Joker and Bane. Of course it would be nice if they can get a villain to match Spidey, but just as long as they get Spider Man right, I won't have too much to complain about.
One of the biggest complaints against TASM was the villain, in how Lizard was weak. So Spider-Man very much needs a good villain to carry him. They say a hero is only as good as his villain, and TASM had one of the weakest.

But even without the Lizard Peter was wholly unlikable in that movie. He was rude, obnoxious, and a complete douche. Plus the whole skateboarding, sitting in class with a hood over his head stuff was totally anti Peter Parker.

TASM 2 thankfully rectified all of that.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:50 PM   #305
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I seriously don't understand Raimi love. The VERY FIRST THING that mute idiot said in the first movie was "This story is all about a girl...".

FAIL! Right out the gate! Allllll the way to the last final shot of them embracing and slow dancing in 3!

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:50 PM   #306
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Brilliance? Look, I realize you just took film or writing classes for the first time and you like to show off how you can pick up on thematic nuance
Now now don't get personally insulting here just because you're losing the debate.

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but come back when you can pick up on them and then determine quality beyond that for realizing a script can fail for several other reasons.
But I have done. If I was missing something you'd have pointed it out instead of just making some bitter snarky remark.

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For instance, in Superman Returns Superman was reciting Jor El's speech to his kid. On a meta-level, that was Bryan Singer saying the reigns of the Donner movie had been passed to him. The entire movie was the "child" of the old movie.

Brilliant!..... but it was still a stupid stupid Superman movie, just as Spider-Man 2 maybe be academic level film making, but (should be!) a disgrace to real Spider-Man fans.
Superman Returns was a poor Superman movie for other reasons. Nothing to do with Superman reciting his father's words to his child. So I don't know what point you're trying to make there.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:52 PM   #307
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Losing! lol

You have yet to present anything compelling, just nonsense and dragging the discussion in other directions.

You rain on everyone's parade across several threads, you're getting ignored.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:53 PM   #308
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I seriously don't understand Raimi love. The VERY FIRST THING that mute idiot said in the first movie was "This story is all about a girl...".
"Who am I? You sure you want to know? My story is not for the faint of heart etc etc"

Heh you don't even know what the first thing he says is.

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Old 04-23-2014, 04:55 PM   #309
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Losing! lol

You have yet to present anything compelling, just nonsense and dragging the discussion in other directions.
Pot. Kettle. Black.

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You rain on everyone's parade across several threads, you're getting ignored.
Having a difference of opinion is not raining on anyone's parade.

Yeah you ignore me. It's easier to do than attempt to have a proper discussion.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:06 PM   #310
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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You're half right. It's every bit as amazing as a Spider-Man movie as it is as a movie. Spider-Man not spouting one liners all the time is the most minor petty complaint. If he had none at all then it would be valid but he had several.

Spider-Man breaking a promise to a dead man, Peter acting like an a-hole to people around him, Harry being the Goblin before Norman, The Lizard having no family etc are all bigger more important things that were wrong or missing from the Spider-Man mythology.



No folks, it wasn't. The others were also mentioned like the riding up the crotch line, and the I have a knack for that quip.



Let me get this straight, you ignore the heroics, the moral code of the character, the honoring of great power with great responsibility etc, and pin everything that makes Spider-Man who he is down to his quips?

No offense but if you do then you severely lack understanding of who Spider-Man is.
But Lizard having a family isn't iconic to him, being disabled is. Breaking a promise sets up the next movie (much in the same way Peter never told his poor Aunt May the truth
about Ben's death?) Harry being GG first doesn't take anything away from the character.

You mis understand me. Great moral code? Being heroic? Yay. That's great he's doing those things, but I'm talking about what makes him iconic. Batman, Superman etc are all strong willed, strong characters but they are not funny. That's what makes him unique.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:12 PM   #311
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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But Lizard having a family isn't iconic to him, being disabled is.
Yes it is. When he becomes The Lizard his family are put in jeopardy, and part of the tragedy of the character is he has to be cured for his wife and son.

It's a huge vital part of the Lizard's story.

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Breaking a promise sets up the next movie (much in the same way Peter never told his poor Aunt May the truth
about Ben's death?)
That's apples and oranges. It's following the comics. Peter could have stopped Uncle Ben's killer when he had the chance. I've never seen Peter break his word to a dying man in the comics, have you?

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Harry being GG first doesn't take anything away from the character.
That's like saying Robin coming before Batman doesn't take anything away from the character.

It is the biggest bastardization of the Goblin story. What you call putting the cart before the horse.

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You mis understand me. Great moral code? Being heroic? Yay. That's great he's doing those things, but I'm talking about what makes him iconic. Batman, Superman etc are all strong willed, strong characters but they are not funny. That's what makes him unique.
Deadpool, Johnny Storm, The Flash and a dozen other hero characters are funny and quippy, too.

There goes Spider-Man's 'uniqueness'.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:24 PM   #312
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I REALLY hate the "Peter is a dick" argument toward TASM franchise.

Does he make some mistakes? Yes. But for people who like to act like they know everything about the character they seem to forget Peter can be a HUGE dick to people in the comics. Fairly frequently too.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:27 PM   #313
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I REALLY hate the "Peter is a dick" argument toward TASM franchise.

Does he make some mistakes? Yes. But for people who like to act like they everything about the character they seem to forget Peter can be a HUGE dick to people in the comics.
Ehhh no he's not. Like look at how Peter behaved at the dinner table with Captain Stacy when he was invited over to dinner at the Stacy's house. Comic book Peter would never behave like that. Esp if he was invited over as a guest into someone's home.

Peter was always so nervous about his secret that he felt he couldn't share it even with people he believed he could trust. The way Garfield reveals it to Gwen willy-nilly was completely against the character. He webs her ass and pulls her into him. Soooooo not like Peter Parker.

Hated Garfield's Peter in TASM. Sooooo unpleasant. No wonder he had no mates.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #314
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Ehhh no he's not. Like look at how Peter behaved at the dinner table with Captain Stacy when he was invited over to dinner at the Stacy's house. Comic book Peter would never behave like that. Esp if he was invited over as a guest into someone's home.

Peter was always so nervous about his secret that he felt he couldn't share it even with people he believed he could trust. The way Garfield reveals it to Gwen willy-nilly was completely against the character. He webs her ass and pulls her into him. Soooooo not like Peter Parker.
ehhh yes he is. He's snapped and yelled at Betty, Robbie, MJ, May etc in the comics plenty of times. Especially in the 60s-70s era. The era fans laud up and down the block.

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Old 04-23-2014, 05:35 PM   #315
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ehhh yes he is. He's snapped and yelled at Betty, Robbie, MJ, May etc in the comics plenty of times. Especially in the 60s-70s era. The era fans laud up and down the block.
Ehhh no he didn't. Name the issues where he did that for no good reason. Only time he yelled at MJ for no good reason was after Gwen was killed and he was all upset and grieving. ASM #122.

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Old 04-23-2014, 06:03 PM   #316
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Or did you miss the line in SM1 at the very beginning of the movie where he goes "This story is all about a girl.... that girl... Mary Jane Watson".

Pff. Raimi's Spider-Man.
lol well from what I've heard, TASM2 is a love story and not a Spider-Man story, so Webb doesn't fall too far behind.

Webb's "Spider-Man"


and no, SM2 is not overrated, far from it. It's still the best take on Spidey out there.

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The way SONY dominated Marc Webb was way more hardcore than anything in 50 Shades anyways.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:08 PM   #317
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The fact that there are only 2 or 3 quips in the entire movie is a pretty big let down as there are that many in an episode of Spectacular. Plus they were pretty weak too.
There's not much more in Webb's. Also, there's a fair amount in SM1/SM2/SM3. Too much and it gets distracting.

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Raimi got all the everything that you mention down and that is the reason why Spider Man 2 is regarded a great film, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Spider Man the character was lacking personality. He really felt like it can be anyone under the mask.
Then again, Peter Parker is the everyman, so.

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The two different franchises, IMO, are polar opposites and what ASM excels in is what the original franchises lacked and vice versa. I enjoy ASM way more though because I enjoy watching Spider Man and I don't think he needs villains to carry him like how Batman was completely outshined by Joker and Bane. Of course it would be nice if they can get a villain to match Spidey, but just as long as they get Spider Man right, I won't have too much to complain about.
Spidey doesn't need villains to carry him, but he does need to have his villains be...cool. Webb didn't get Spider-Man right. Having him crack more jokes isn't "getting Spider-Man right". Hell, he couldn't even get Peter Parker right, which is the more important part.

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The way SONY dominated Marc Webb was way more hardcore than anything in 50 Shades anyways.
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Old 04-23-2014, 06:23 PM   #318
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Not only is Maguire's Peter Parker too morose and devoid of personality, but Doctor Octopus, also, bears little resemblance to the comics character, personality-wise. I understand giving him more fleshed-out motivations (Rosie was a good idea) but making him unknowingly evil and a victim of something else just undercuts Ock for me. One of the best things about him in the books is how unabashedly evil he is. They took him in this movie and made him into Curt Connors, in reality.

The one scene that especially irks me is when Peter allows a kid to keep being jumped without doing a damn thing. That ain't Peter Parker. When the same incident happened in ASM #50 (an attempted homage), Peter helped, just without turning into Spidey. I know it was supposed to be played for drama, but still, not only is he a glum goober, but he's also too selfish.

Still though, the train fight is one of the best comic book movie fights, and actually might be the first exceptional one. It's not a horrible movie.... but it's certainly overrated.

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Old 04-23-2014, 06:35 PM   #319
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One of the best things about him in the books is how unabashedly evil he is. They took him in this movie and made him into Curt Connors, in reality.
He smirked when dropping May off a building, and later caused a train to go off a cliff. Seems pretty evil to me.

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Old 04-23-2014, 06:59 PM   #320
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There's not much more in Webb's. Also, there's a fair amount in SM1/SM2/SM3. Too much and it gets distracting.



Then again, Peter Parker is the everyman, so.



Spidey doesn't need villains to carry him, but he does need to have his villains be...cool. Webb didn't get Spider-Man right. Having him crack more jokes isn't "getting Spider-Man right". Hell, he couldn't even get Peter Parker right, which is the more important part.

I haven't seen ASM2 yet, but Spider Man, the character, had way more personality and "swagger" to him that lacked with Tobey's, especially SM2 Spider Man. It isn't just the quips, but the overall confidence that Spider Man carries in a fight.

Peter Parker is the everyday man. Spider Man isn't. When Peter puts on the mask he is his own character. He is confident, talks trash and throws a quip out every now and then.

Peter Parker was meant to be the everyday teenager that wasn't popular, but liked. Webb's Peter wasn't perfect, but it's better than the all time crying Tobey. Webb's Peter actually wants to be Spider Man, not just give up the second things go bad. Again, I haven't seen ASM2, but I heard Peter is written much better here, so we'll have to wait and see.

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Old 04-23-2014, 07:33 PM   #321
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I would have liked some more Spidey jokes, but the lack of them doesn't make me think any less of Maguire as Spider-Man.

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Old 04-23-2014, 07:34 PM   #322
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Ehhh no he didn't. Name the issues where he did that for no good reason. Only time he yelled at MJ for no good reason was after Gwen was killed and he was all upset and grieving. ASM #122.
Ehh, yes he did. I'm not gonna sit here and flip through a ton a comics just to prove my point. It's there, and you know it. Peter was prone to snapping at people when he was in a bad way.
There's one issue where MJ witnesses a murder by the Vulture and doesn't want to confess because she fears for her life and Peter reams her out like nobodies business. During the original clone saga, he also threatens to hit the duplicate Gwen. Those are two recent examples I've read recently.

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Old 04-23-2014, 08:26 PM   #323
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

The only good parts are Aunt May and Harry Osborn. I could take or leave the rest of it. Perhaps I simply came too late to Peter Parker to enjoy Toby's performance. I found TASM Peter to be a bit more relatable. I haven't seen TASM2, so I can't compare our two Harrys, and Rosemary, as of TASM, was still a better Aunt May.

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Old 04-23-2014, 09:14 PM   #324
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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I haven't seen ASM2 yet, but Spider Man, the character, had way more personality and "swagger" to him that lacked with Tobey's, especially SM2 Spider Man. It isn't just the quips, but the overall confidence that Spider Man carries in a fight.
Minus the constant smart mouth, Maguire's Spidey was totally confident in the fight scenes. 100%.

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Peter Parker is the everyday man. Spider Man isn't. When Peter puts on the mask he is his own character. He is confident, talks trash and throws a quip out every now and then.
Again minus the constant quipping, that was Maguire's Spidey. He was confident, heroic, everything Spidey should be.

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Peter Parker was meant to be the everyday teenager that wasn't popular, but liked. Webb's Peter wasn't perfect, but it's better than the all time crying Tobey.
I'm sorry but this is such hyperbole. I can count on one hand in each movie the number of times Peter cried in Raimi's trilogy. Explain in great detail how that constitutes him crying all the time.

FYI Garfield's Peter has cried in both of his movies, too. He's even Steven with Garfield on that score so far. Not to mention Garfield's done the whole moody brooding brooder act like sitting in class with his hood up.

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Webb's Peter actually wants to be Spider Man, not just give up the second things go bad.
Apart from Spider-Man 2, which is lifted straight from the comics with the Spider-Man no more story, list all the times in Spider-Man 1 and 3 where Peter wanted to quit.

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Ehh, yes he did. I'm not gonna sit here and flip through a ton a comics just to prove my point. It's there, and you know it. Peter was prone to snapping at people when he was in a bad way.
No, he definitely was not. We're not talking about Peter snapping at people. We're talking about general bad/rude behavior, like the aforementioned scene where he goes to dinner at the Stacy's home.

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There's one issue where MJ witnesses a murder by the Vulture and doesn't want to confess because she fears for her life and Peter reams her out like nobodies business. During the original clone saga, he also threatens to hit the duplicate Gwen. Those are two recent examples I've read recently.
Using the Clone Saga, one of the worst stories in Spider-Man history, is not a good way to back up your point.

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Not only is Maguire's Peter Parker too morose and devoid of personality, but Doctor Octopus, also, bears little resemblance to the comics character, personality-wise. I understand giving him more fleshed-out motivations (Rosie was a good idea) but making him unknowingly evil and a victim of something else just undercuts Ock for me. One of the best things about him in the books is how unabashedly evil he is. They took him in this movie and made him into Curt Connors, in reality
http://molinaock.blogspot.ie/

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Old 04-23-2014, 09:17 PM   #325
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I still lol at all the complaints about Peter crying in Raimi's films

Cause when I'm responsible for the death of a father figure, or the love of my life breaks up with me, or my best friend dies, instead of showing emotion, imma be all like

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