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Old 06-19-2013, 08:37 PM   #226
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

I'll preface this by saying that yes, a few scenes of Superman saving people in the city would have been nice. But the lack of that does not equal him not caring. I don't see how people can bridge the gap like that. It's not like he looked at the devastation, shrugged and flew off.

If Superman didn't go across the globe to stop the other World Engine, who would have? Would he just wait for the proper military force to show up? How long would that take? How long would it take for their weapons to affect it? Superman was the one who had to go. He could get there faster and stop it faster.
So I guess him sticking around and trying to stop the World Engine in Met would have been better. Because Zod and Co wouldn't try and stop him. They wouldn't cause even MORE damage fighting while that thing was going off. If the reverse happened, people would be *****ing Supes should have went to the other one and caused more damage.

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Old 06-19-2013, 08:46 PM   #227
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Never thought I'd see the day when people whined about there being too much damage and deconstruction in a superhero movie.
Big surprise, there is a limit for some people! Shocking!

I mean yeah, like totally .... I should like watching two guys endlessly smashing each other thru buildings and walls over and over again, not only in one city, but two! .... That kind of stuff should be served with a side of boogers for the viewer to eat.

I'd love nothing else but to see a super-powered fight. However, the creativity went out of the freaking window during the fights. Wait, I forgot ..... Superman isn't experienced enough yet, he'll learn other ways to fight in the sequel.

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #228
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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I'll preface this by saying that yes, a few scenes of Superman saving people in the city would have been nice. But the lack of that does not equal him not caring. I don't see how people can bridge the gap like that. It's not like he looked at the devastation, shrugged and flew off.

If Superman didn't go across the globe to stop the other World Engine, who would have? Would he just wait for the proper military force to show up? How long would that take? How long would it take for their weapons to affect it? Superman was the one who had to go. He could get there faster and stop it faster.
So I guess him sticking around and trying to stop the World Engine in Met would have been better. Because Zod and Co wouldn't try and stop him. They wouldn't cause even MORE damage fighting while that thing was going off. If the reverse happened, people would be *****ing Supes should have went to the other one and caused more damage.
Indeed. Again as i say before they r so double standard. They r so willing to let go n forgive the flaws in donners but so damn critical on MOS

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:51 PM   #229
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Guys its very simple. The ONLY reason people are complaining about the collateral damage in this film is because we never really saw Superman saving people. That's the difference between the destruction in this film versus the destruction in The Avengers or the old Superman movies.

If we just saw Superman rescuing a few people during the end battle it would be OK. But it seemed like Superman didn't know or care that there were people in the city.

When I watched the film again I think they were trying to show that Superman and Zod were fighting in empty ruins but that may not be 100% clear to everyone.

And then there's the fact that while Metropolis is being destroyed Superman goes to the other side of the world instead of helping people in the city. Yes I know he was going to destroy the machine that would save the city but it still makes him seem disconnected from the people who are suffering. We expect cheesy scenes of superheroes rescuing a schoolbus full of children but we didn't get that in this movie.
We have a winner here folks!

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:54 PM   #230
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Indeed. Again as i say before they r so double standard. They r so willing to let go n forgive the flaws in donners but so damn critical on MOS
There's no double standard. If people prefer one over the other, how is that a double standard.

I prefer the way Donner showed Superman, even though the film is dated, and yes campy at times, I thought he captured the essence of who Superman was.

This film captures glimpses of a fully realized modern day Superman, but it's clouded with bad direction and horrible dialogue.

Sorry but David Goyer isn't in the same universe as Mario Puzo. If you don't believe me, just ask the academy of motion pictures, and go watch the Godfather and get back to me.

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Old 06-19-2013, 09:54 PM   #231
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Old 06-19-2013, 10:03 PM   #232
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Sorry but David Goyer isn't in the same universe as Mario Puzo. If you don't believe me, just ask the academy of motion pictures, and go watch the Godfather and get back to me.
How does batman begins compare to STM.

Puzo didn't bring his A game to STM. That time spin at the end isn't just stupid, and a plot hole, but a straight up deus ex...

Goyer's dialogue is fine for the material imo, then again he's doesn't have characters shooting off the thought provoking nonsense quips of Marvel Studio's last two hits(which would be a far more fair comparison than the freaking god father), but he get's the job done.

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Old 06-19-2013, 10:06 PM   #233
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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How does batman begins compare to STM.

Puzo didn't bring his A game to Godfather. That time spin at the end isn't just stupid, and a plot hole, but a straight up deus ex...

Goyer's dialogue is fine for the material imo, then again he's doesn't have characters shooting off the thought provoking nonsense quips of Marvel Studio's last two hits(which would be a far more fair comparison than the freaking god father), but he get's the job done.
LOL @ the idea Goyer dialogue was fine for the material .... and especially at you calling the quips nonsense.

Man, do you have a serious hard-on for Marvel movies or what? You keep invoking them in your arguments even when the person you're responding to hasn't said a word about them.

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Old 06-19-2013, 10:54 PM   #234
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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LOL @ the idea Goyer dialogue was fine for the material .... and especially at you calling the quips nonsense.
Care to explain how goyers dialogue wasn't fine for the material? It's easy to just repeat something.
Fair warning, I might end up referencing tons of dialogue from the source material in DC comics to prove this point, but again, go head if you must.

As for the non sense quips, I'm sorry everything ironman says for comedic effect when talking to himself is actually substantive exposition The films are filled with quips and they are mostly non contributive to plot or character, nor do they have to be, it's a good time. Care to dispute, go ahead.

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Man, do you have a serious hard-on for Marvel movies or what? You keep invoking them in your arguments even when the person you're responding to hasn't said a word about them.
The people I respond to often have actually and if not, when comparing the hypocrisy in the reception of various cbms, plz tell me why I wouldn't evoke other cbms in my arguments?

If you have been reading my retort as I know you have seeing as many of them are for you, you might have noticed how many times I bring up the TDK trilogy, especially in light of the killing rule.

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Old 06-19-2013, 11:13 PM   #235
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Guys its very simple. The ONLY reason people are complaining about the collateral damage in this film is because we never really saw Superman saving people. That's the difference between the destruction in this film versus the destruction in The Avengers or the old Superman movies.
If that's the only reason then I think people need to reassess how they criticize film.

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If we just saw Superman rescuing a few people during the end battle it would be OK. But it seemed like Superman didn't know or care that there were people in the city.
He rescued the planet, why does there have to be individuals as well?
Because it happened in a previous film?

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When I watched the film again I think they were trying to show that Superman and Zod were fighting in empty ruins but that may not be 100% clear to everyone.
If superman was flying through people to land punches they would have a point. But as has been shown several several times in this very thread, not all superman fights go the way of the donner verse. Zod isn't always going to be an idiot and a time waster and a lap dog.

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And then there's the fact that while Metropolis is being destroyed Superman goes to the other side of the world instead of helping people in the city. Yes I know he was going to destroy the machine that would save the city but it still makes him seem disconnected from the people who are suffering. We expect cheesy scenes of superheroes rescuing a schoolbus full of children but we didn't get that in this movie.
I know you are trying to rationalize the thought process here and I commend you. But that's a joke if it's true. My opinion.
Sad thing is, it might just be. If superman had a big corny welcoming smile while saving a bus, some of these people would stop what their doing and actually argue that this was an objectively better film.

At the end though? While he's fighting. Not at the beginning when he's just focused on saving people. At the end when he's fighting, because that's how superman fights. Donner made it so.
Well then here you go

He did it(and that's not the only time), still don't think they are happy though. Maybe a few more times, like in the previous movies that were dedicated to that stuff and only that stuff..


lame

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:03 AM   #236
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

He didn't need to kill anyone.
Superman should of just stopped Zod with his cellophane S.

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Old 06-20-2013, 12:58 AM   #237
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

This is another interesting point i found.

Only 1 building collapsed during Superman and Zod's fight

by r-panico





I counted, and it was because of Zod's heat vision. They caused a lot of damage to the city but it's not nearly as bad as some people are upset about. The vast majority of it was caused by Zod. Also the fight scene from the moment they clash is 6 minutes long, not 20 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever the people complaining about are saying.

Just an FYI the next time you see someone exaggerate the hell outta this fight scene like we've been seeing in all the complaints.




by Astrotom3000-1




They caused a lot of damage to the city but it's not nearly as bad as some people are upset about.
There is plenty of city left even after all the destruction, as evidenced by the one shot of Superman flying around looking for Zod (where the city still has traffic and no signs of disturbance).

Add to the fact that, after Krypton's destruction and the action that preceded it, there are really no major action/fight scenes until the ~80-85 minute mark. To those exaggerating about the film being "all action". And no, just because a scene has special effects does not make it an "action" scene.

My Recent watches
Man of Steel - 9/10
After Earth - 4/10


by igasu




I counted 3 last time I went.

1st Zod's heat vision: I think the building was empty as it was too close to the blast zone, people would have evacuated.

2nd I think was that oil tanker explosion, it was a parking garage, so not a total building collapse. But still.

3rd was when Zod tossed Kal-El into the edge of a building Superman II style. You can see it topple over(Probable should not have though) I think that building was empty too. It was getting dark and those offices would be empty.






To read more.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/.../216094081?p=1

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Old 06-20-2013, 01:20 AM   #238
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Old 06-20-2013, 01:45 AM   #239
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Because that's what superheroes do.

Lets take what happened in this movie to the extreme. Imagine there was a threat on the other side of the galaxy that will destroy the earth 1000 years from now. Superman goes and stops it all by himself. He comes back and lets everyone know "hey guys I saved your planet from this thing that you didn't even know about and that won't even affect you or your great grandchildren." Who the F would even care? That doesn't make for great drama.
I don't think that example even begins to relate to what happened though, perhaps a better one?
Is the goal drama(cause I've got a great ending in mind lol) or is it super heroics?

Or maybe if I rephrase. Take superman too, have the zod city fight the exact same way, but take out the portion where zod and his crew start attacking people. You are then left with something horrible? No I think it's just a matter of wanting to see this from superman himself.
Otherwise we'd demand it from every batman fight, every spiderman fight...etc.

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Old 06-20-2013, 04:12 AM   #240
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

All these arguments are funny to me...

The people argueing that Superman didn't do enough to stop Zod from killing so many people are also the same people who argued Superman should never kill... don't you guys see the illogic there?

Now, if only Superman had snapped Zod's neck at the very beginning, maybe we didn't have to deal with city-wide destruction???

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Old 06-20-2013, 04:33 AM   #241
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

Then we all can go home 1 hour earlier. Lol

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:32 AM   #242
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:57 AM   #243
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Both. They go hand in hand.

Saving the world is always heroic but it is not in and of itself always dramatic. It depends on how its portrayed.

I mean the whole reason you set a climactic final battle in a city is to add drama and tension with all the people in danger. But if the city is a ghost town then there is no point.
Totally disagree people or not the very look of a major city battle among crumbling sky-scrappers is always impressive.

The Neo-Agent smith city battle which was very lauded in its time took place in an empty city.

What looks more impressive being thrown through 100 story sky-scrapers or a random barn?

I think if they had made it explicit that the city was abandoned that would have not taken away any of the epicness to the superman-zod fight.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:26 AM   #244
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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The Neo-Agent smith city battle which was very lauded in its time took place in an empty city.
Isn't that one of the issues about a lot of the tropes present in this film? That's it been done before?

It is to me at least. The rest of what's being discussed is bordering on nauseating because it's the same thing over and over. Nothing new.

Poster 1 : Lol, those noobs are whining about MOS' destruction, check out this sarcastic post that exaggerates the point they're making.

Poster 2: This!1!1! OMG MOS BEST FILM EVAS!

Poster 3: I think things could've been done better. Like so.

Poster 4: OMG YOU MARVEL NOOB! AVENGERS SUXTED!

Poster 5: I complete disagree with Poster 3 for these specific and reasonably well put opinions but once things start looking not so good for me I'm going to become an eloquent version of Posters 1,2 and 4.

Poster 6: Whilst I accept your opinions, Poster 5, I think things could've been done better. Like so.

Poster 7: Realism.

Poster 8: Tots. So coolzors to see Superman kill!

Rinse and repeat. Please keep in mind, there's opinions critiquing the films I disagree with too, but it's just a pity that the vocal defenders of the film tend to descend into hyperbolic sarcasm or start ranting about realism or just keep recycling the same reasons again and again.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:33 AM   #245
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Well think about it??? In the battle scene..half the city is Pulverized by Superman and Zod so how many 1000's maybe of people dead? Now in real life would you want a alien to come to your city no matter what intention he had and do that. Noooo..I say go find another planet to fight your battles if you dont care about the destruction and fatalities. Yes Supeman if real or not cannot be a million places at one time..people will die..but I'm thinking Superman maybe just be bringing greater problems to planet earth if he keeps this up?? Like geez he saved a bully.a couple of kids, strangers on a oil rig but he let his father die to save a dog? I think your cover is already blown..would it hurt to save your dad?? MOS was good..but i thought there was to much over the top destruction in the sacrifice for better character development, he needs more charm,grace and a better reason for us humans to root and cheer for him..in the movie..bang bang another building goes down..superman thinks it's just fireworks.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:35 AM   #246
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

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Isn't that one of the issues about a lot of the tropes present in this film? That's it been done before?

It is to me at least. The rest of what's being discussed is bordering on nauseating because it's the same thing over and over. Nothing new.
I haven't heard that brought up as an issue in fact i love that we got to see it.

When that scene first appeared in the matrix sequel 10 years ago, pretty much comic fans everywhere said finally we can now do a superman film justice! this is how superman and an enemy would do battle. I was sure as hell excited especially since there were already talks about a new superman film coming not long after.

Well it took 10 years waiting and we finally got to see that. On a personal level i was quite content.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:40 AM   #247
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I haven't heard that brought up as an issue in fact i love that we got to see it.

When that scene first appeared in the matrix sequel 10 years ago, pretty much comic fans everywhere said finally we can now do a superman film justice! this is how superman and an enemy would do battle. I was sure as hell excited especially since there were already talks about a new superman film coming.

Well it took 10 years waiting and we finally got to see that. On a personal level i was quite content.
Yeah I'm one of the guys who refuses to acknowledge the existence of any Matrix sequels since they were just CGI fests and hokum philosophy.

I don't know, sure the fight is cool but apart from the visual nature of the action, conceptually it's all been done before.

I adored the visuals of the Clark vs Zod fight. Or I did to begin with. But as it went on I felt like it's been done before with Faora but just in a different city. The variation wasn't great in terms of the film as a whole.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:44 AM   #248
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Well think about it??? In the battle scene..half the city is Pulverized by Superman and Zod so how many 1000's maybe of people dead? Now in real life would you want a alien to come to your city no matter what intention he had and do that. Noooo..I say go find another planet to fight your battles if you dont care about the destruction and fatalities. Yes Supeman if real or not cannot be a million places at one time..people will die..but I'm thinking Superman maybe just be bringing greater problems to planet earth if he keeps this up?? Like geez he saved a bully.a couple of kids, strangers on a oil rig but he let his father die to save a dog? I think your cover is already blown..would it hurt to save your dad?? MOS was good..but i thought there was to much over the top destruction in the sacrifice for better character development, he needs more charm,grace and a better reason for us humans to root and cheer for him..in the movie..bang bang another building goes down..superman thinks it's just fireworks.
I don't remember see scenes showing the public showing their gratitude to the alien (so called superman by the army). Maybe u r right, the public wanna get rid of the alien?

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:47 AM   #249
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

The fight with zod was different on a number of levels. For one Faora vs Supes was very much a ground fight with her actually getting the upper-hand for most of it.

I enjoyed that due to the fact it shows how her being a warrior by birth it made sense for her to get the best of him at first. Also the fight was much more limited in scope, part of it was on a road the other confined to a restaurant.

Zod vs Supes was just balls to the walls, aerial, much more destruction flying throught skyscrapers, them being relatively equal to superman getting the best of zod at points etc.

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Old 06-20-2013, 06:51 AM   #250
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Default Re: Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

Eh, it might be due to the shaky cam/color palette/visual effects but whilst I get what you're saying, it all began to feel like mush by the end of it.

Though I'll admit, apart from the conclusion of the fight, Zod vs Clark felt far less contrived in its purest sense. In the Faora fight, everything felt rehearsed.

Like he was going to be thrown here to facilitate this scene and then save a trooper to allow this punch. It wasn't thrilling and just seemed extremely by the numbers.

How the filmmakers justified a genetically engineered warrior being defeated by both father and son in differing yet unbelievable circumstances is another question. But the responses typically center around realism and some contrived mumbo jumbo.

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