The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > TV Series > The Punisher

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2017, 02:03 AM   #1
flickchick85
Loose Seal
SHH! Global Moderator
 
flickchick85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,137
Default Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)



EPISODE 2: "Two Dead Men"


Use spoiler tags when discussing the events of any future episodes.

__________________

"They say: sufferings are misfortunes...Once we're thrown off our habitual paths, we think all is lost; but it's only here that the new and good begins.

As long as there's life, there's happiness. There's much, much still to come."


flickchick85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 03:23 AM   #2
flickchick85
Loose Seal
SHH! Global Moderator
 
flickchick85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,137
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Aw @ Frank/Karen.

__________________

"They say: sufferings are misfortunes...Once we're thrown off our habitual paths, we think all is lost; but it's only here that the new and good begins.

As long as there's life, there's happiness. There's much, much still to come."


flickchick85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 11:56 AM   #3
inomilan
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 126
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Man, gotta stop with this episode for the moment, can't wait to binge watch this whole series tomorrow. Really great start so far!

inomilan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #4
Speed Force
There was an idea...
 
Speed Force's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,020
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Russo is suave, that's for sure.

Liked this episode quite a bit, seems like it's really starting to get going now.

Episode 3 tomorrow morning

Speed Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 03:17 PM   #5
Iceman
Infinity War!
 
Iceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Londinium, North of Gaul, circa XLIII AD
Posts: 116,767
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Great to see Karen. Glad Frank got the better of Lieberman and I wasn't expecting Carson out of the picture quite so soon.

__________________
Xbox GT: BAHAMUT ZERO X 148,332 G
X-MEN - AVENGERS - JUSTICE LEAGUE
Iceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 05:25 PM   #6
psylockolussus
Fierce User
 
psylockolussus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: X-Mansion
Posts: 35,662
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

I liked that Karen appeared and it was interesting to see Micro. But the others have yet to get my interest.

__________________
Phoenix • Psylocke • Rogue • Storm
X - W O M E N
Dazzler • Jubilee • Polaris • Shadowcat • White Queen
psylockolussus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 07:56 PM   #7
Heretic
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Detroit needs heroes
Posts: 11,887
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Yeah...I'm already feeling the Netflix 13 Episode Bloat.

I love this character they have built and Bernthal's performance...I'm just not feeling what seems to be a "government sold me out" story...and the side story/detective thing just feels like time filler to me.

Heretic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 09:09 PM   #8
Mike Murdock
Side-Kick
 
Mike Murdock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: The other Hell's Kitchen
Posts: 9,778
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

The coffee in these drinks have me amped up while the alcohol leaves me confused. I think that's an appropriate combination. These episodes feel a lot like Daredevil Season One in the sense that, by the time I get to the end, I'm surprised the stuff in the beginning is the same episode. By the time I get to the end, I forgot all about the wonderful flashback in the beginning. This episode is tied very strongly to Afghanistan, stating with Frank about to deploy, through a memorial of 911, Frank's troopmate, etc. That guy seems surprisingly on the up and up. He may not be, but he's at least very reverential to the man.

I did a read through of Punisher comic highlights prior to this show. Some of the stories I liked best were ones that tried different genres. Given that, I appreciated how this very much had a spy vibe to it. It started early with some cat and mouse stuff and continued all the way to the meeting of Castle and Micro at the end. I also liked the encounter with the main agent's boss (I should remember names). Have to say, I thought the gun would be empty, though.

I'm excited to see Micro and Frank meet. I'm looking forward to the development of his character. Much like the Punisher, there's much to be unsympathetic towards, but there's a lot that's intriguing. I also never really connected that he's Jewish, oddly enough. But I like the mutual distust, which is appropriate under the circumstances.

Four Stars.

__________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Mike Murdock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 09:44 PM   #9
Speed Force
There was an idea...
 
Speed Force's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 10,020
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

I didn't even know C. Thomas Howell was in this

Speed Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 09:01 AM   #10
chamber-music
Infinity Ammo
 
chamber-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34,249
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Force View Post
I didn't even know C. Thomas Howell was in this
He graduated from The Amazing Spider-Man to The Punisher

__________________
All aboard the Pork Chop Express!
chamber-music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 09:03 AM   #11
flickchick85
Loose Seal
SHH! Global Moderator
 
flickchick85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 31,137
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Force View Post
I didn't even know C. Thomas Howell was in this
He plays fantastic scumbags. He was an excellent one on Southland.

__________________

"They say: sufferings are misfortunes...Once we're thrown off our habitual paths, we think all is lost; but it's only here that the new and good begins.

As long as there's life, there's happiness. There's much, much still to come."


flickchick85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 12:07 PM   #12
Lencho01
Shazoogle! Shazoogle!
 
Lencho01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 25,784
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

I liked this episode more than the first. I thought Carson was gonna last longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
He graduated from The Amazing Spider-Man to The Punisher
Hahaha.

__________________
I was at some diplomatic party once. Got to talking to this princess who told me that when it came to Superman, I was missing the point. She told me, "His real strength lay in his generous spirit and sense of what's fair." - King Faraday

"
He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
Lencho01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 09:49 PM   #13
Scarecrow_King
King of Swinging Moods
 
Scarecrow_King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Point of Diminishing Returns
Posts: 6,140
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Frank is a fan of the whole "only one bullet in the gun" trick.

And I really don't like the government conspiracy to kill Frank's family plot. I think Frank (as with most comic book characters, including Batman and Spider-Man) work best when it's random chance/violence that take their family away. It's what drives them to keep going--that it could happen to anyone.

Frank's family being specifically targeted takes away any real motive for him to continue being The Punisher after he gets his revenge. As seen in the first episode.

__________________
Well, it's been a shattering disillusionment. Goodnight.
Scarecrow_King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 11:22 PM   #14
KRYPTON INC.
Side-Kick
 
KRYPTON INC.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 56,356
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
Frank is a fan of the whole "only one bullet in the gun" trick.

And I really don't like the government conspiracy to kill Frank's family plot. I think Frank (as with most comic book characters, including Batman and Spider-Man) work best when it's random chance/violence that take their family away. It's what drives them to keep going--that it could happen to anyone.

Frank's family being specifically targeted takes away any real motive for him to continue being The Punisher after he gets his revenge. As seen in the first episode.
Characters can have evolving motivation though. I think that Frank's ethos will get him to the place where he's just that freelance agent of old testament justice we all know and love by the end.

__________________
My father. 1946-2014

He truly proved that every person has the potential to be a force for good in this life. So anyone that reads this, do me a favor... Call your parents.

http://www.tobecontinuedafanboypodcast.com/ To Be Continued A Fanboy Podcast: THE INCREDIBLES 2 Spoiler Review Discussion.
KRYPTON INC. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 12:28 AM   #15
Joe Von Zombie
Back in college
 
Joe Von Zombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the middle of nowhere, AL
Posts: 2,847
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
Frank is a fan of the whole "only one bullet in the gun" trick.

And I really don't like the government conspiracy to kill Frank's family plot. I think Frank (as with most comic book characters, including Batman and Spider-Man) work best when it's random chance/violence that take their family away. It's what drives them to keep going--that it could happen to anyone.

Frank's family being specifically targeted takes away any real motive for him to continue being The Punisher after he gets his revenge. As seen in the first episode.
This is going to sound mildly absurd, but I honestly think making this a conspiracy was an attempt to make the material a bit more PC (which ultimately failed anyway due to current events) without having to change Frank's methods. We're never going to get direct adaptations of these stories.The SJW crowd would have a field day if that happened, and Marvel doesn't want the headache.

Joe Von Zombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 05:01 AM   #16
KRYPTON INC.
Side-Kick
 
KRYPTON INC.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 56,356
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Von Zombie View Post
This is going to sound mildly absurd, but I honestly think making this a conspiracy was an attempt to make the material a bit more PC (which ultimately failed anyway due to current events) without having to change Frank's methods. We're never going to get direct adaptations of these stories.The SJW crowd would have a field day if that happened, and Marvel doesn't want the headache.
Do please explain what you mean by all that?

__________________
My father. 1946-2014

He truly proved that every person has the potential to be a force for good in this life. So anyone that reads this, do me a favor... Call your parents.

http://www.tobecontinuedafanboypodcast.com/ To Be Continued A Fanboy Podcast: THE INCREDIBLES 2 Spoiler Review Discussion.
KRYPTON INC. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 07:21 AM   #17
righthooksrus86
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 760
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
Do please explain what you mean by all that?
I think what he's saying is seeing Frank take out a bunch of street thugs or shooting an old, mobster in a wheelchair isn't going to sit well with audiences these days. People are too sensitive and PC for that and the kind of controversy it would bring isn't something Marvel is going to wanna deal with...and that's unfortunate for us fans of the comics who want to see stories like In the Beginning adapted to live action.

righthooksrus86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 10:58 AM   #18
chamber-music
Infinity Ammo
 
chamber-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34,249
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

The Punisher going after people as revenge for his families murder is probably seen as more palatable for audiences.

Villains being tied to the hero (or anti-hero in this case) is good for narrative reasons. Personal vengeance is seen as slightly more morally justified than him just killing random bad guys he has no connection to.

__________________
All aboard the Pork Chop Express!
chamber-music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 11:13 AM   #19
Joe Von Zombie
Back in college
 
Joe Von Zombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the middle of nowhere, AL
Posts: 2,847
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by righthooksrus86 View Post
I think what he's saying is seeing Frank take out a bunch of street thugs or shooting an old, mobster in a wheelchair isn't going to sit well with audiences these days. People are too sensitive and PC for that and the kind of controversy it would bring isn't something Marvel is going to wanna deal with...and that's unfortunate for us fans of the comics who want to see stories like In the Beginning adapted to live action.
Exactly. I'll give credit where credit is due, the creative team behind the show were able make it feel like a natural part of the story hinted at in Daredevil without it feeling like a cop out or a compromise, but I still believe that's why it was done.

Joe Von Zombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 01:02 AM   #20
warhorse78
Side-Kick
 
warhorse78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 3,266
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by righthooksrus86 View Post
I think what he's saying is seeing Frank take out a bunch of street thugs or shooting an old, mobster in a wheelchair isn't going to sit well with audiences these days. People are too sensitive and PC for that and the kind of controversy it would bring isn't something Marvel is going to wanna deal with...and that's unfortunate for us fans of the comics who want to see stories like In the Beginning adapted to live action.
Yeah, I can see that happening. Look how quick they threw Kevin Spacey to the curb!

But seriously, I believe the main viewers aren't going to give a crap about some PC. Look at the two most watched shows in the world. Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead. The most controversial things in those shows would be the incest, rapes and child killings, but yet despite those very sensitive subjects, the audience has still kept on watching.

warhorse78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 01:11 AM   #21
righthooksrus86
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 760
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Yea im still holdin out hope for some of those stories to be adapted into a season.

righthooksrus86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 01:41 AM   #22
KRYPTON INC.
Side-Kick
 
KRYPTON INC.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 56,356
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Frank from the moment he appeared in DD has been killing in gruesome ways many an unlucky thug so I don't get the idea that the show is being "PC" in the least in that respect.

But Internet gonna Internet I suppose.

__________________
My father. 1946-2014

He truly proved that every person has the potential to be a force for good in this life. So anyone that reads this, do me a favor... Call your parents.

http://www.tobecontinuedafanboypodcast.com/ To Be Continued A Fanboy Podcast: THE INCREDIBLES 2 Spoiler Review Discussion.
KRYPTON INC. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 07:25 AM   #23
Joe Von Zombie
Back in college
 
Joe Von Zombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the middle of nowhere, AL
Posts: 2,847
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
Frank from the moment he appeared in DD has been killing in gruesome ways many an unlucky thug so I don't get the idea that the show is being "PC" in the least in that respect.

But Internet gonna Internet I suppose.

We only saw him kill white bikers and the Kitchen Irish directly. We saw the aftermath of what he did to the Mexican cartel. This was done deliberately. Had season 2 of DD debuted after Iron Fist, it would have been handled differently entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
Yeah, I can see that happening. Look how quick they threw Kevin Spacey to the curb!

But seriously, I believe the main viewers aren't going to give a crap about some PC. Look at the two most watched shows in the world. Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead. The most controversial things in those shows would be the incest, rapes and child killings, but yet despite those very sensitive subjects, the audience has still kept on watching.
Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead came under direct fire after the rape of Sansa Stark and the death of Glenn respectively.

Marvel is trying to avoid another Iron Fist because despite that show's numerous amount of valid flaws. A good portion of critical focus was on the fact that Danny Rand was white. If Frank had killed Turk in this season, the backlash would have been catastrophic which is unfortunate because I firmly believe Frank would have in the comics.

Joe Von Zombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 08:48 AM   #24
KRYPTON INC.
Side-Kick
 
KRYPTON INC.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 56,356
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

So... It's the color of Frank's kills that is the issue? Well... Thanks for stopping dancing around what it comes down to.

KRYPTON INC. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 09:15 AM   #25
Joe Von Zombie
Back in college
 
Joe Von Zombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the middle of nowhere, AL
Posts: 2,847
Default Re: Season 1, Episode 2 "Two Dead Men" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

It's not just that, but that is the primary issue. Like righthooksrus86 said, having Frank murder an elderly wheelchair ridden gangster ain't gonna fly either. I do think they made the right decision in the end went even went about it in the best possible way they could.

Joe Von Zombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of Mandatory Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2018 All Rights Reserved.