The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread

[henzINNIT]

You've all wasted too much time on Lucas's asshat politics.

[ClarkLuther55]

Great contribution to this thread there. Because really, calling everything "asshat" is so mature and intelligent of you.

This is why Star Wars discussions are so garbage. So many people with strong opinions and a short understanding of the facts. So many arrogant people who are insulting and dismissive of people who want more substantial discussion about these movies.

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by ClarkLuther55

You are seriously saying that the desire for the biggest gun during a war means matching political philosophy. In total contradiction to everything that was said during the actual movie.

The Empire exists as a military dictatorship at the complete service of the Emperor.

The Separatists want to...separate (self evident by the name) and "secede" (stated onscreen multiple times). They are in the control of a coalition of various greedy business interests, whom Palpatine can only appear to as a hologram.

But oh yeah, wanting a big weapon means they're just the same. You're not even trying to present any logical argument here. As I pointed out before, you're just putting your foot down and repeating yourself, as if insisting harder will convince anyone.

EDIT: BTW, I like how you divide the groups into "good guys" and bad guys. Do you really see things that simplistically? As if there can't be different types of villains with different agendas?

Yes I am because thats what Star Wars is, theres no grey areas with Vader or the Emperor. Lucas's big defense that it's a movie for kids, it's not that deep. And yes, wanting to build something that destorys an entire planet and kills billions is justifiable. The Trade Federation droids mentioned "camp 4" and the Vice Roy orderded Amidala to be "processed" implying they had some time of concentration camps. These aren't people with good intentions.

It's pretty evident they want the Death Star for the same reason the Empire did which is to keep their systems in line.

Do not move the goalposts. You said that kidnapping the leader = "control the galaxy."

Now you backtrack and say that kidnapping the leader is an "attack on the entire nation," which is not the same thing at all. Your words don't match, and they don't support your previous argument that the Separatists wanted to take over everything (which makes their name an oxymoron).

They want to build a Death Star, they have launched an invasion on the Capital, they have taken the sovereign leader hostage. I think that one explains itself.

Because the Jedi are the only thing in Palpatine's way? No wait, you made that up as well.

You just said that the Republic had a lot of power like "the Jedi" and "the ship the Jedi came on". If Palpatine has the army, which was demonstrated to be capable of killing dozens of highly skilled Jedi Masters, then he can take over.

The movies made it quite clear that Chancellor was a weak position when Palpatine took that office, and that the Senate held a lot of power. Palpatine dragged out the war and made himself look like a hero so that the Senators would all love and embrace him, and willingly give him more power. As shown by ANH, Palpatine didn't even take total control and dissolve the Senate until two decades later.

That didn't even make a whole lot of sense either. Do you really think the Senate was like "Okay, let's build a Death Star"?

You can't say that it's "preposterous" that Palpatine needed the support of the people, when the canon movies show exactly that.

Who cares history and common sense show thats not true. Have you ever heard of the Nazi's? Palpatine has a whole sect of people leaving the Republic and threatening it with war, lead by a Jedi. Do what Hitler did and blame the Jedi like the Jews!

[QUOTE]You really think it's better strategy to declare himself God Emperor of everything, after making himself look like a terribly weak and incompetent leader by surrenduring half the Republic (which the Senate can throw him out of office for, see Chancellor Valorum).[QUOTE]

It worked pretty well for Caesar, and he didn't die until he was betrayed by his most trusted friend Brutus...hmmm kind of sounds like what Darth Vader ended up doing? Besides the point you have this idea that he looks "weak" by giving up half the Republic. If he makes some sort of deal with Dookuwho is listening to him then he's not looking weak. He just looks like the guy who has an elite organized expendable military, claiming his power of a government that has militias at best.

You really think that the Clone Army is completely sealed off from all other communications to other Republic leaders (completely contradicted by the movies, which show the Senate and the Jedi commanding various parts of it)

No but they sure didn't have problem killing their Jedi leaders or turning a gun on a member of the Senate.

and that Palpatine can conduct an extended campaign and occupation with them against the Republic, withe EVERYONE against him?

I don't know, did France or Poland really want Hitler to take over? No, but he had an army that made their look like kids with sticks. Fear is huge, of coarse some people will challenge him, but thats made clear with the whole Rebellion thing in the next 3 movies.

EDIT: The Kaminoans clearly indoctrinated the clones to be loyal to the Republic. The Kaminoans ran a legitimate defense business and "had no motive" for evil, as Obi-Wan said himself. The Clone Army was not programmed to destroy and conquer the entire galaxy in defiance of the Republic.

Yeah, thats why they turned on the Jedi in a heart beat and followed all of the now Emperors orders.

This is supposed to be better than most of the Republic loving and willingly submitting themselves to him?

Yeah because it makes a lot more sense and people still challenged him anyway.

And I like how you bring up the Rebellion...who the movies clearly portray as a minority hiding out in a bunch of uninhabited Outer Rim planets.

So? Palpatine has the whole military backing him, and it was made pretty clear the planets were being kept in line by fear. Either way the Rebels would be a minority and hiding in obscure parts of the Galaxy.

Which part said he could approve bills without Senate permission? The Senate gave him permission to create an army.

The part where Jar Jar urged the Senators to give him emergency powers so he could approve the bill instead of waiting for the Senate. The part where the Jedi were worried about if the Chancellor was going to give up his powers after Grievous was dead. Pretty much the whole point of Attack of the Clones.

What is this? "You're refuting everything I say, therefore you know I'm completely right."

That's what you're basically doing. Repeating yourself, going in circles, and dismissing everything that's brought up by others.

Because really, I'm soooo threatened by the guy who thinks "Death Star = matching philosophies on government"

I've already wasted too much time on you.

Do you think the people of the US would be happy if they built a "Death Star?"

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by ClarkLuther55

Great contribution to this thread there. Because really, calling everything "asshat" is so mature and intelligent of you.

This is why Star Wars discussions are so garbage. So many people with strong opinions and a short understanding of the facts. So many arrogant people who are insulting and dismissive of people who want more substantial discussion about these movies.

You don't want a substantial discussion about these movies, you want to go to a thread called "The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread" and complain when someone has a strong negative opinion. Theres an Appreciation thread too, if you want to talk over there about how brilliant you think the prequels are then go ahead, we won't bother you or in anyway impede on your right to express your views. However, to praise these movies and try to defend them here is like jumping in a shark tank gushing blood expecting not to get bit.

[ClarkLuther55]

Originally Posted by BenKenobi

You don't want a substantial discussion about these movies, you want to go to a thread called "The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread" and complain when someone has a strong negative opinion.

So "substantial discussion" about the movies can't mean disagreeing with someone else?

BTW, I find the idea of dividing people into "Anti" and "Pro" discussion threads to be incredibly lame. Instead of using fandom as something to bring people together with a common interest, no matter what their opinion is, it's using fandom to divide people into separate camps. Also, it's a way for people to escape into echo chambers where everyone agrees with them, right or wrong.

What happens if, God forbid, someone in one of these threads says something factually wrong? Going by this "my side only" thinking, people would be discouraged from correcting him.

I'm fundamentally opposed to these kinds of threads at all.

Theres an Appreciation thread too, if you want to talk over there about how brilliant you think the prequels are then go ahead,

Translation: You don't want to hear any opinions that disagree with you. You like your little echo chamber.

However, to praise these movies and try to defend them here is like jumping in a shark tank gushing blood expecting not to get bit.

You're hardly a "shark" to me.

[ClarkLuther55]

Originally Posted by BenKenobi

Yes I am because thats what Star Wars is, theres no grey areas with Vader or the Emperor.

Oh wow. You are literally saying that you refuse to think about this in any way beyond a childish "good guys" and "bad guys." You are literally saying that you can ignore what the movies show themselves.

Seriously. I challenged you in that last post and accused you of looking at things "simplistically"...and you come back and proudly declare that you are simplistic.

Lucas's big defense that it's a movie for kids, it's not that deep.

The movies do have a target audience of young boys. That does not allow you to casually disregard the facts.

What did the opening of ROTS say again? "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere."

And yes, wanting to build something that destorys an entire planet and kills billions is justifiable. The Trade Federation droids mentioned "camp 4" and the Vice Roy orderded Amidala to be "processed" implying they had some time of concentration camps. These aren't people with good intentions.

Are you just carrying on because admitting that you're wrong would be the end of your self-esteem, or are you this incapable of understanding the discussion?

Did I say the Trade Federation was nice? No I didn't.

I said that there are different villains with different motives.

You do NOT get to ignore what the movies clearly and repeatedly state onscreen (that these guys are "Separatists" who want to "secede") and replace it with your own badly thought out fanfic version.

They want to build a Death Star, they have launched an invasion on the Capital, they have taken the sovereign leader hostage. I think that one explains itself.

So you go in circles again. So kidnapping the leader still equals "control the galaxy"?

You just said that the Republic had a lot of power like "the Jedi" and "the ship the Jedi came on". If Palpatine has the army, which was demonstrated to be capable of killing dozens of highly skilled Jedi Masters, then he can take over.

So killing a few dozen Jedi is equal to invading and occupying countless trillions of citizens the galaxy over?

I don't think you know how an occupation works. After all, you don't seem to see an advantage between violently conquering people, and having them willingly submit to your rule.

[ClarkLuther55]

You know what, BenKenobi, you are right. You are completely right and I am wrong.

When the movies called the Trade Federation "Separatists," and when they repeatedly stated their intention to "secede," the movie didn't really mean it. They forgot to do the find and replace needed to change "secede" to "conquer everything," which is why this same mistake pops up consistently throughout more than one movie.

If the movies contradict what you say, the movies are wrong.

There literally cannot be any gray area in the movies' conflicts, or any villains with separate opposing agendas, because you say so.

The lines in ROTS's opening text, which outright state "There are heroes on both sides" and "evil is everywhere," were mistakes. The editor should've removed those from the film. He should hve listened to you.

You are the big bad shark, and I am "threatened" by your superior intelligence. An intelligence which you have demonstrated to be superior, with your inability to grasp any conflicts beyond "good guys" vs. "bad guys."

This is a place for substantial Star Wars discussion, where no one is allowed to disagree or point out an error. Someone isn't making a worthy contribution unless they join your comfort zone and agree with you.

It is far more important for you to hear that you are 100% completely right, than it is for me to continue this stupid discussion with you. It's New Year's Eve and I have better things to do than continue with you. So congratulations BenKenobi, you are completely right. Hope that makes you feel better.

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by ClarkLuther55

So "substantial discussion" about the movies can't mean disagreeing with someone else?

BTW, I find the idea of dividing people into "Anti" and "Pro" discussion threads to be incredibly lame. Instead of using fandom as something to bring people together with a common interest, no matter what their opinion is, it's using fandom to divide people into separate camps. Also, it's a way for people to escape into echo chambers where everyone agrees with them, right or wrong.

What happens if, God forbid, someone in one of these threads says something factually wrong? Going by this "my side only" thinking, people would be discouraged from correcting him.

I'm fundamentally opposed to these kinds of threads at all.

Your complaining about me and how I think I'm right, the point of the thread is for people who don't like the prequels. I agree echo chambers suck, thats why I never post on the RedLetterMedia boards, it's too much of an extreme. Being said, you are in position to criticize my choice to openly express my views somewhere that was created for people like me to do exactly so.

Translation: You don't want to hear any opinions that disagree with you. You like your little echo chamber.

No, translation: There's a good number of people who see these films as jokes compared to the originals and you can't make a big deal out of someone saying something is "asshat" on a thread made for people who don't like these films.

You're hardly a "shark" to me.

Every time someone says something that you don't agree with, rather than attacking their argument you make some snide remark or try to discredit them as a poster, or claim victim to people you strongly believe in their views. You said it yourself you don't like an echo chamber and you came to this thread to have an actual discussion, this implies that you are anticipating highly opinionated people and you expect exactly what you're getting.

My point is don't complain about people that don't agree with you, when you're on here for that very reason.

[Grievous]

I always thought that if you took away the fact the CIS was being run by the Sith, then they actually were a better side for the Jedi to side with over the Republic. Honestly toward the end of the war the Republic had the Chancelor as the most powerful person in the galaxy. Why were the Jedi cool with that?

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Grievous

I always thought that if you took away the fact the CIS was being run by the Sith, then they actually were a better side for the Jedi to side with over the Republic. Honestly toward the end of the war the Republic had the Chancelor as the most powerful person in the galaxy. Why were the Jedi cool with that?

There were so many stupid writing decisions when it came to the Confederacy, I honestly don't even know where to begin, especially with the character of Count Dooku. By all means he should have been a legitimate Jedi and not a Sith.

The Separatists really should have been a group of people that feared Palpatines corruption and wanted to preserve the Republic they loved. This would have mirrored the whole Rebelion against the Empire type thing, only our heroes are on the otherside. Not only that, having our heroes the Jedi divided and attempting to stomp out the Confederacy, only to realize by doing that they allowed the fall of their order and the Republic they were trying to prevent all along works perfectly for the tragedy element the prequels were going for.

Being said, if the Seperatists weren't controlled by the Sith they could have better justified Palpatines ability to convince the public (and Anakin) the Jedi are traitors and need to be executed. Not only that this divide could have easily spring-borded the fallout between Anakin and Obi-Wan.

On another note, the way Anakin became Darth Vader was handled horribly. Vader spoke to Luke about how "Obi-Wan once felt as he does" and believed there was still good in him. Obi-Wan also told Luke that he is "more machine than man now" when Luke implied that he could reach what was left of his father. Now the first quote implies Obi-Wan and Anakin were somewhat like Xavier and Magneto in the X-Men, two old friends divided on beliefs in a struggle to sway the other over to their own side. That Obi-Wan spent a good deal of time trying to reach out and save Anakin before losing hope.

Now the second quote about Vader being a machine, had a duel meaning. Obviously it references his status as a cyborg, although it is more so meant to compare his capacity for empathy and emotion to that of a computer which follows along a set programing. Now when did we see this? The tragedy of Vader really should have mirrored the tragedy of the Republic. The Phantom Menace established Anakin as innocent and pure. As the government corrupts and becomes further and further into the oppressive military dictatorship, Anakin should have began to change and corrupt as well, becoming cold and merciless.

The biggest problem with these movies is that Lucas had the sheer arrogance to believe he could write them completely by himself.

[ClarkLuther55]

Originally Posted by BenKenobi

Your complaining about me and how I think I'm right, the point of the thread is for people who don't like the prequels.

The point of this thread is a lousy one, and these types of threads stifle real discussion in the first place. "Everyone agrees over here. If you disagree, go somewhere else."

I agree echo chambers suck, thats why I never post on the RedLetterMedia boards, it's too much of an extreme.

I can honestly say good for you on that.

Being said, you are in position to criticize my choice to openly express my views somewhere that was created for people like me to do exactly so.

Every time someone says something that you don't agree with, rather than attacking their argument you make some snide remark or try to discredit them as a poster,

You keep thinking that this is about your mere opinion, and acting as if your words are unassailable. You seem incapable of viewing the discussion in any terms beyond yourself.

I don't care if you hate these movies. Their subjective quality to you is not really my concern.

I'm talking about the facts clearly establshed by canon, which no one can casually disregard in a discussion with other people on the subject while expecting to be taken seriously.

The movies outright say that the Trade Federation are "Separatists," with an objective to "secede." This is not open to debate.

Palpatine's ran as the anti-Trade Federation candidate during the election for the new Chancellor in TPM. They hate him and see him as an enemy. Again, this is a fact whether you liked the movie or not.

Palpatine only appears to the Separatists as a hologram in a secret identity. The Separatists do not exist to serve Palpatine, who again, they hate. The Separatists want to escape the control of the central galactic government, while the the Empire is the big central government with Palpatine as the undisputed ruler. Therefore, they are not the same thing as you tried to claim.

None of this has anything to do with whether you liked the movies personally. Somehow, you mentally framed this all as your self-centered opinion, and refused to discuss these things as separate from your feelings. You go on your gut feelings, right or wrong, and refuse to approach the facts in an objective way.

This is why I did not like talking to you, and why it's been a big waste of time. Not everything is about you and your feelings. Think about that.

I'm done with you.

[Gianakin_]

Originally Posted by BenKenobi

You have the right to an opinion, however the majority of critics and the general audience above the age of 14, panned them. From a strictly critical point of view the movies are very lazily made aside for the special effects aspect, and from a strictly critical perspective the story is also subpar.

Even if all of this was fact, I wish I gave a flying f**k about what other people think. But it's not, and I don't, so...

Oh, and you throw around the word "critical" a lot, without really knowing what it is. One more way to pass your personal views on this as fact.

No if you are really going to point to your right to opinion to like the prequels in a threat called "The Anti-Prequel Discussion Thread", then why are you even posting in it?

I never ever argue opinions. I have never called anyone out when they've stated they hate the acting or the CGI or subjective stuff like that. But when someone says how the movies are illogical, I do post and argue them, always being (or trying my hardest to be) respectful. 'Cause this is an argument in which evidence and facts can be provided by the movies themselves.

I never had to say "It's my opinion and I like them" before, not until you tried to generalize your opinion and pass it as fact. You'll notice that's when I started to refrain from posting, 'cause I figured what kind of conversation you're going for (and I'm not interested in it).

You may disagree with the popular consensus but obviously we do not, so theres no point in posting to say you still have the right to like something we don't, rather than discussing it.

I did discuss it and have been doing so before you joined the conversation. It's when you started posting opinions as facts that I stopped. But I'm done with this, if you're done with me.

[henzINNIT]

Originally Posted by ClarkLuther55

Great contribution to this thread there. Because really, calling everything "asshat" is so mature and intelligent of you.

This is why Star Wars discussions are so garbage. So many people with strong opinions and a short understanding of the facts. So many arrogant people who are insulting and dismissive of people who want more substantial discussion about these movies.

I am confident of my intelligence and maturity, and I fear you may have confused my derogatory statement for ignorance of the matter. Don't see the point of dwelling on space-politics because the films indicate Lucas sure as hell didn't.

The irony is that while you continue this back and forth about how people like me stifle conversations, you've been skipping over the posts that are actually opening up discussion. Way to lose focus.

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

Even if all of this was fact, I wish I gave a flying f**k about what other people think. But it's not, and I don't, so...

Oh, and you throw around the word "critical" a lot, without really knowing what it is. One more way to pass your personal views on this as fact.

Fair enough, but like you said you wish you gave a flying f**k what other people think. I'm not trying to offend you, but this is honestly how I feel.

I never ever argue opinions. I have never called anyone out when they've stated they hate the acting or the CGI or subjective stuff like that. But when someone says how the movies are illogical, I do post and argue them, always being (or trying my hardest to be) respectful. 'Cause this is an argument in which evidence and facts can be provided by the movies themselves.

There are tons of things that are totally illogical in the Prequels especially in Episode I:

1. Chancellor Valorum's solution of sending the Jedi to settle the conflict. So he sends the Jedi to the blockade right, then the Federation attempts to murder them, invades the planet, and chases them half way across the galaxy. Then when they finally escape to Courescant, Valorum declares they need a comity to decide the validity of their accusations. If he needs to send a comity to prove the testimony of the two Jedi he just sent there, then why the hell did he even send them in the first place?

2. Palpatine ordering the Trade Federation to "Kill them immediately".
So the Jedi get to the ship and the Nemoidians contact Sidious, after hearing the Jedi have arrived Sidious should have told the Trade Federation to inform the Jedi they are preparing to invade the planet. Then the Jedi could go back to the Chancellor (just like they did later), the Trade Federation would declare they're lying (just like they did later), and Palpatine could get a vote of no confidence on the Chancellor. Instead he orders them to kill the Jedi immediately, which is one the thing that could hinder his plans.

3. The fact Palpatine was pushing so hard for that stupid Treaty, that would totally undermine his scheme. So Palpatine orders the Trade Federation to march on the City and get a the Queen to sign a treaty making the invasion legal, even scowling "I want that treaty signed!" before sending Darth Maul out after her. So with no effort the Federation get to the city and captures the Queen. Well what if Palpatine was wrong and THE FOURTEEN YEAR OLD QUEEN gave in and signed the treaty. Well then the invasion would be legal and there goes Palpatines vote of no confidence.

4. The Council and their stance on Darth Maul. After Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon get back they inform the council of their attacker and that they believe he is a Sith Lord. Mace Windu tells him the council will put forth all their efforts in the matter. Then a few scenes later Mace tells Kenobi and Gin they are to return to Naboo to discover the identity of their attacker. Okay number one how do they know he's there, number two why did they suddenly lose intrest in the possible Sith Lord they were going to put "all of their effort in finding", and number three why did they send them alone? Like 9 of them showed up at the end for the celebration, why not send em there with em so maybe they can get Maul alive?

5. Qui-Gons bet and plan to get the shield generator was totally unnecessary. First Qui-Gon tries to mindtrick Watto into taking republic credits that are a good as monopoly money to him, indirectly stealing them. He then uses the force to fix a bet to the out come of his choosing, cheating him once again. So why doesn't he just steal the part? He already is screwing the guy out of his slaves and tried to steal it with the force once. Just sneak in while it's closed and steal the part.

Or maybe he could have hired someone to fly him, Kenobi, the Queen and co to Courescant and paid with credits (Like Obi-Wan does several years later). You know maybe a young pilot, who's rumored to be the best space pilot in the galaxy, who amazes Obi-Wan with his strong connection to the force, even hits it off a little with the Queen before deciding to become a Jedi? Would have been a much better way to introduce Anakin Skywalker than to make him a little kid, allowing no development between him and Amadalla as well as requiring an immediate recast.

6. The assignation attempts. First of all why does Jango need to hire another bounty hunter do his dirty work? Second of all why does he give her poison bugs? How about a bomb, Padme spends a whole lot of time next to huge open windows even sleeping besides them. The Jedi allow several droids to approach the windows carelessly several times. The bounty hunter, the bounty hunter Jango hired even uses a droid to successfully get the bugs in THROUGH THE WINDOW. So why not just strap a bomb on the droid and try and blow her up again? She also is able it shoot Obi-Wan down extremely accurately. Why not just get on a vantage point and shoot her while she's asleep.

Also given that the assassin tried to kill her from a vantage point the last time, why did Anakin set up the stupidest trap ever? Artoo has all these sensors shooting around the floor, and the only entrance in is the hall where the Jedi are waiting. What are the odds the guy is going to be stupid enough to run in on foot when they weren't the last time? Then after the assassin attacks, Obi-Wan (the older, rational one) jumps out the window to grab the droid and ride it through the sky to god knows where while Anakin (the young, reckless one) goes after him on a speeder. Especially given it has been established Anakin wants to get the attacker to impress Padme this is a huge reversal of roles.

Not only that why does Zam decide to try to kill Obi-Wan in the crowded bar, when she could have easily escaped. Even if she did kill him what was her plan from there, Anakin is still in the same room looking for her. She should have just left and tried again!

7.Padme suspects Count Dooku is behind the attempts on her life. Padme's main focus is stopping the military creation act and seeking a peaceful solution to the Separatist Crisis. As far as she knows Count Dooku is a former Jedi, the group of people that guard the galaxy and saved her and her planet 10 years before, and is simply trying to peacefully secede from the Republic. Now the military creation act is a bill to create a military in the event the Separatist Crisis reaches a worst case senario, a bill which she has avidly fought. Now if she is keeping the Republic from being able to obtain a means to defend itself, and she now thinks Dooku means war, then why would he wish to kill her allowing the bill to pass, before he could attack the defenseless Republic and declare the Confederacy a legitimate free state?

I could really go on for hours, Sith is a big improvement by minimizing Lucas's stupid elaborate schemes he's been writing in since Luke in Jedi, but there are still quite a few stupid things in there too.

I never had to say "It's my opinion and I like them" before, not until you tried to generalize your opinion and pass it as fact. You'll notice that's when I started to refrain from posting, 'cause I figured what kind of conversation you're going for (and I'm not interested in it).

I never said you couldn't have your opinion, but I can have mine too. Given everything I have said above, the horrible acting, the unrealistic cluttered CGI environments, Jar Jar, surplus of underdeveloped characters, and the overall mixed reviews from critics, I'd say I am more than entitled to keep my opinion as well. Plus too when was the last time you saw a reference to the prequels in popular media besides Jar Jar who has become the poster child for annoying supporting characters?

I did discuss it and have been doing so before you joined the conversation. It's when you started posting opinions as facts that I stopped. But I'm done with this, if you're done with me.

I am speaking to you the way you are speaking to me. I'm being insulting or trying to make you out to be inferior in anyway. If you don't wish to continue thats fine, but don't go around twisting my words.

[BenKenobi]

Also what stroke of brilliance was it to have Anakin save the day in Phantom Menace by accident? He didn't even mean to fly the ship into battle or do much of anything. THE SHIP WAS ON AUTO PILOT for half the battle. To say that is as powerful as Luke and his buddies being the only fighters left being forced to take action into their own hands and take down the Death Star in Episode IV, is just ludicrous.

In this movie we also learn absolutely nothing about what kind of a person Obi-Wan is, other than maybe strict and robotic. He doesn't express much emotion or even get much screen time really.

[Mulholland-Jr]

Always hated the prequels, even when I was a kid. Only thing I liked was that Genndy Tartokovsky cartoon spin off thing.

[MydnightPhoenix]

The worst thing about the prequels for me was how Padme died; talk about the worst giveup in history. Pretty hair and costumes couldn't make me forgive that one.

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

Always hated the prequels, even when I was a kid. Only thing I liked was that Genndy Tartokovsky cartoon spin off thing.

That was actually really good, I bet George regretted having them introduce General Grievous because they actually did him well (can't have that in one of these movies). Really the only people who like the prequels I've come to find are either;

A. Toy playing age kids, those movies are great for toys I can attest to that. I loved my star wars prequel toys when I was a kid.

B. Parents of the kids who love these movies, because most parents tend to some what see the world through their kids eyes.

C. Adults who were kids when the prequels came out, that refuse to admit something important to their childhood might suck.

Anyone who's seen the Redlettermedia reviews understands that for ever defense and justification anyone has for calling these films masterpieces besides sheer opinion, there are 5 even larger reasons why they failed.

[Brother Jack]

Originally Posted by Mulholland '49

Always hated the prequels, even when I was a kid. Only thing I liked was that Genndy Tartokovsky cartoon spin off thing.

The short cartoons he did were incredible. Easily one of the best things to come out of the prequels as a whole and better than the films in some ways.

[vinsanity]

still prefer the Genndy Tartokovsky's Clone Wars than the new ones (although they're also great, but sometimes very inconsistent) but both of them manage to make Anakin a more likeable, mature and noble character then the whinny kid Lucas wrote in the movies.

[MydnightPhoenix]

Ok so this Tartokovsky's guy did the Clone Wars cartoons from years ago, not the awful animation thing that is going on now? The CW cartoons were amazing, they actually made Anakin likable and showed him being a hero. And General Greivous was freakin amazing! That is the only villain from the prequels who was as good as Darth Vader. In Ep III he was gawd awful and pathetic.

[BenKenobi]

Originally Posted by Szetsilya

Ok so this Tartokovsky's guy did the Clone Wars cartoons from years ago, not the awful animation thing that is going on now? The CW cartoons were amazing, they actually made Anakin likable and showed him being a hero. And General Greivous was freakin amazing! That is the only villain from the prequels who was as good as Darth Vader. In Ep III he was gawd awful and pathetic.

He was so cool because we spent two films seeing how pathetic and worthless the battle droids were and he is introduced having overpowered an entire star destroyer and several Jedi with them. He seemed intelligent and a real threat capable of beating the heroes. In the film he was crap. The biggest flaw of the prequels was the villains, I bet George hated how this show did him well. I love how at the end of the series they show Windu crushing his chest, as if to warn us that he's gonna suck in the film.

[OutRiddled]

The Ewok movies are better than the Prequels.

[Solouk]

Originally Posted by Gianakin_

I love them. No review or analysis will change my mind.

Begs the question, why post on this thread then? (Unbelievable)

[Solouk]

IMO there's a whole plethora to dislike about the PT (IF your of sane mind?) apart from the obvious. Script, acting, everything. The fundamentals for a good story were there (even though you knew how it would all turn out) The only 'unknown' aspect of it, was exactly HOW it would pan out? And oh dear...