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#76 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,983
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You've all wasted too much time on Lucas's asshat politics.
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#77 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,331
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Great contribution to this thread there. Because really, calling everything "asshat" is so mature and intelligent of you.
This is why Star Wars discussions are so garbage. So many people with strong opinions and a short understanding of the facts. So many arrogant people who are insulting and dismissive of people who want more substantial discussion about these movies. |
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#78 | ||||||||||||
Banned User
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It's pretty evident they want the Death Star for the same reason the Empire did which is to keep their systems in line. Quote:
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[QUOTE]You really think it's better strategy to declare himself God Emperor of everything, after making himself look like a terribly weak and incompetent leader by surrenduring half the Republic (which the Senate can throw him out of office for, see Chancellor Valorum).[QUOTE] It worked pretty well for Caesar, and he didn't die until he was betrayed by his most trusted friend Brutus...hmmm kind of sounds like what Darth Vader ended up doing? Besides the point you have this idea that he looks "weak" by giving up half the Republic. If he makes some sort of deal with Dookuwho is listening to him then he's not looking weak. He just looks like the guy who has an elite organized expendable military, claiming his power of a government that has militias at best. Quote:
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#79 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 362
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#80 | |||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,331
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BTW, I find the idea of dividing people into "Anti" and "Pro" discussion threads to be incredibly lame. Instead of using fandom as something to bring people together with a common interest, no matter what their opinion is, it's using fandom to divide people into separate camps. Also, it's a way for people to escape into echo chambers where everyone agrees with them, right or wrong. What happens if, God forbid, someone in one of these threads says something factually wrong? Going by this "my side only" thinking, people would be discouraged from correcting him. I'm fundamentally opposed to these kinds of threads at all. Quote:
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#81 | |||||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,331
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Seriously. I challenged you in that last post and accused you of looking at things "simplistically"...and you come back and proudly declare that you are simplistic. Quote:
What did the opening of ROTS say again? "There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere." Quote:
Did I say the Trade Federation was nice? No I didn't. I said that there are different villains with different motives. You do NOT get to ignore what the movies clearly and repeatedly state onscreen (that these guys are "Separatists" who want to "secede") and replace it with your own badly thought out fanfic version. Quote:
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I don't think you know how an occupation works. After all, you don't seem to see an advantage between violently conquering people, and having them willingly submit to your rule. |
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#82 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,331
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You know what, BenKenobi, you are right. You are completely right and I am wrong.
When the movies called the Trade Federation "Separatists," and when they repeatedly stated their intention to "secede," the movie didn't really mean it. They forgot to do the find and replace needed to change "secede" to "conquer everything," which is why this same mistake pops up consistently throughout more than one movie. If the movies contradict what you say, the movies are wrong. There literally cannot be any gray area in the movies' conflicts, or any villains with separate opposing agendas, because you say so. The lines in ROTS's opening text, which outright state "There are heroes on both sides" and "evil is everywhere," were mistakes. The editor should've removed those from the film. He should hve listened to you. You are the big bad shark, and I am "threatened" by your superior intelligence. An intelligence which you have demonstrated to be superior, with your inability to grasp any conflicts beyond "good guys" vs. "bad guys." This is a place for substantial Star Wars discussion, where no one is allowed to disagree or point out an error. Someone isn't making a worthy contribution unless they join your comfort zone and agree with you. It is far more important for you to hear that you are 100% completely right, than it is for me to continue this stupid discussion with you. It's New Year's Eve and I have better things to do than continue with you. So congratulations BenKenobi, you are completely right. Hope that makes you feel better. |
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#83 | |||
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 362
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My point is don't complain about people that don't agree with you, when you're on here for that very reason. |
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#84 |
General of the Droid Army
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kalee
Posts: 4,444
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I always thought that if you took away the fact the CIS was being run by the Sith, then they actually were a better side for the Jedi to side with over the Republic. Honestly toward the end of the war the Republic had the Chancelor as the most powerful person in the galaxy. Why were the Jedi cool with that?
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Kentucky Wildcats "Jedi! You are surrounded, your army is decimated. Make peace with the Force now…for this is your final hour. But know that I, General Grievous, am not completely without mercy. I will grant you a warrior's death. Prepare!" - General Grievous |
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#85 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 362
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The Separatists really should have been a group of people that feared Palpatines corruption and wanted to preserve the Republic they loved. This would have mirrored the whole Rebelion against the Empire type thing, only our heroes are on the otherside. Not only that, having our heroes the Jedi divided and attempting to stomp out the Confederacy, only to realize by doing that they allowed the fall of their order and the Republic they were trying to prevent all along works perfectly for the tragedy element the prequels were going for. Being said, if the Seperatists weren't controlled by the Sith they could have better justified Palpatines ability to convince the public (and Anakin) the Jedi are traitors and need to be executed. Not only that this divide could have easily spring-borded the fallout between Anakin and Obi-Wan. On another note, the way Anakin became Darth Vader was handled horribly. Vader spoke to Luke about how "Obi-Wan once felt as he does" and believed there was still good in him. Obi-Wan also told Luke that he is "more machine than man now" when Luke implied that he could reach what was left of his father. Now the first quote implies Obi-Wan and Anakin were somewhat like Xavier and Magneto in the X-Men, two old friends divided on beliefs in a struggle to sway the other over to their own side. That Obi-Wan spent a good deal of time trying to reach out and save Anakin before losing hope. Now the second quote about Vader being a machine, had a duel meaning. Obviously it references his status as a cyborg, although it is more so meant to compare his capacity for empathy and emotion to that of a computer which follows along a set programing. Now when did we see this? The tragedy of Vader really should have mirrored the tragedy of the Republic. The Phantom Menace established Anakin as innocent and pure. As the government corrupts and becomes further and further into the oppressive military dictatorship, Anakin should have began to change and corrupt as well, becoming cold and merciless. The biggest problem with these movies is that Lucas had the sheer arrogance to believe he could write them completely by himself. |
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#86 | ||||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,331
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I don't care if you hate these movies. Their subjective quality to you is not really my concern. I'm talking about the facts clearly establshed by canon, which no one can casually disregard in a discussion with other people on the subject while expecting to be taken seriously. The movies outright say that the Trade Federation are "Separatists," with an objective to "secede." This is not open to debate. Palpatine's ran as the anti-Trade Federation candidate during the election for the new Chancellor in TPM. They hate him and see him as an enemy. Again, this is a fact whether you liked the movie or not. Palpatine only appears to the Separatists as a hologram in a secret identity. The Separatists do not exist to serve Palpatine, who again, they hate. The Separatists want to escape the control of the central galactic government, while the the Empire is the big central government with Palpatine as the undisputed ruler. Therefore, they are not the same thing as you tried to claim. None of this has anything to do with whether you liked the movies personally. Somehow, you mentally framed this all as your self-centered opinion, and refused to discuss these things as separate from your feelings. You go on your gut feelings, right or wrong, and refuse to approach the facts in an objective way. This is why I did not like talking to you, and why it's been a big waste of time. Not everything is about you and your feelings. Think about that. I'm done with you. Last edited by ClarkLuther55; 01-01-2013 at 09:41 PM. |
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#87 | |||
SW Prequels Defender
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 21,479
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Oh, and you throw around the word "critical" a lot, without really knowing what it is. One more way to pass your personal views on this as fact. Quote:
I never had to say "It's my opinion and I like them" before, not until you tried to generalize your opinion and pass it as fact. You'll notice that's when I started to refrain from posting, 'cause I figured what kind of conversation you're going for (and I'm not interested in it). Quote:
Last edited by Gianakin_; 01-02-2013 at 01:26 AM. |
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#88 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,983
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The irony is that while you continue this back and forth about how people like me stifle conversations, you've been skipping over the posts that are actually opening up discussion. Way to lose focus. Last edited by henzINNIT; 01-02-2013 at 03:55 PM. |
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#89 | ||||
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 362
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1. Chancellor Valorum's solution of sending the Jedi to settle the conflict. So he sends the Jedi to the blockade right, then the Federation attempts to murder them, invades the planet, and chases them half way across the galaxy. Then when they finally escape to Courescant, Valorum declares they need a comity to decide the validity of their accusations. If he needs to send a comity to prove the testimony of the two Jedi he just sent there, then why the hell did he even send them in the first place? 2. Palpatine ordering the Trade Federation to "Kill them immediately". So the Jedi get to the ship and the Nemoidians contact Sidious, after hearing the Jedi have arrived Sidious should have told the Trade Federation to inform the Jedi they are preparing to invade the planet. Then the Jedi could go back to the Chancellor (just like they did later), the Trade Federation would declare they're lying (just like they did later), and Palpatine could get a vote of no confidence on the Chancellor. Instead he orders them to kill the Jedi immediately, which is one the thing that could hinder his plans. 3. The fact Palpatine was pushing so hard for that stupid Treaty, that would totally undermine his scheme. So Palpatine orders the Trade Federation to march on the City and get a the Queen to sign a treaty making the invasion legal, even scowling "I want that treaty signed!" before sending Darth Maul out after her. So with no effort the Federation get to the city and captures the Queen. Well what if Palpatine was wrong and THE FOURTEEN YEAR OLD QUEEN gave in and signed the treaty. Well then the invasion would be legal and there goes Palpatines vote of no confidence. 4. The Council and their stance on Darth Maul. After Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon get back they inform the council of their attacker and that they believe he is a Sith Lord. Mace Windu tells him the council will put forth all their efforts in the matter. Then a few scenes later Mace tells Kenobi and Gin they are to return to Naboo to discover the identity of their attacker. Okay number one how do they know he's there, number two why did they suddenly lose intrest in the possible Sith Lord they were going to put "all of their effort in finding", and number three why did they send them alone? Like 9 of them showed up at the end for the celebration, why not send em there with em so maybe they can get Maul alive? 5. Qui-Gons bet and plan to get the shield generator was totally unnecessary. First Qui-Gon tries to mindtrick Watto into taking republic credits that are a good as monopoly money to him, indirectly stealing them. He then uses the force to fix a bet to the out come of his choosing, cheating him once again. So why doesn't he just steal the part? He already is screwing the guy out of his slaves and tried to steal it with the force once. Just sneak in while it's closed and steal the part. Or maybe he could have hired someone to fly him, Kenobi, the Queen and co to Courescant and paid with credits (Like Obi-Wan does several years later). You know maybe a young pilot, who's rumored to be the best space pilot in the galaxy, who amazes Obi-Wan with his strong connection to the force, even hits it off a little with the Queen before deciding to become a Jedi? Would have been a much better way to introduce Anakin Skywalker than to make him a little kid, allowing no development between him and Amadalla as well as requiring an immediate recast. 6. The assignation attempts. First of all why does Jango need to hire another bounty hunter do his dirty work? Second of all why does he give her poison bugs? How about a bomb, Padme spends a whole lot of time next to huge open windows even sleeping besides them. The Jedi allow several droids to approach the windows carelessly several times. The bounty hunter, the bounty hunter Jango hired even uses a droid to successfully get the bugs in THROUGH THE WINDOW. So why not just strap a bomb on the droid and try and blow her up again? She also is able it shoot Obi-Wan down extremely accurately. Why not just get on a vantage point and shoot her while she's asleep. Also given that the assassin tried to kill her from a vantage point the last time, why did Anakin set up the stupidest trap ever? Artoo has all these sensors shooting around the floor, and the only entrance in is the hall where the Jedi are waiting. What are the odds the guy is going to be stupid enough to run in on foot when they weren't the last time? Then after the assassin attacks, Obi-Wan (the older, rational one) jumps out the window to grab the droid and ride it through the sky to god knows where while Anakin (the young, reckless one) goes after him on a speeder. Especially given it has been established Anakin wants to get the attacker to impress Padme this is a huge reversal of roles. Not only that why does Zam decide to try to kill Obi-Wan in the crowded bar, when she could have easily escaped. Even if she did kill him what was her plan from there, Anakin is still in the same room looking for her. She should have just left and tried again! 7.Padme suspects Count Dooku is behind the attempts on her life. Padme's main focus is stopping the military creation act and seeking a peaceful solution to the Separatist Crisis. As far as she knows Count Dooku is a former Jedi, the group of people that guard the galaxy and saved her and her planet 10 years before, and is simply trying to peacefully secede from the Republic. Now the military creation act is a bill to create a military in the event the Separatist Crisis reaches a worst case senario, a bill which she has avidly fought. Now if she is keeping the Republic from being able to obtain a means to defend itself, and she now thinks Dooku means war, then why would he wish to kill her allowing the bill to pass, before he could attack the defenseless Republic and declare the Confederacy a legitimate free state? I could really go on for hours, Sith is a big improvement by minimizing Lucas's stupid elaborate schemes he's been writing in since Luke in Jedi, but there are still quite a few stupid things in there too. Quote:
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#90 |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 362
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Also what stroke of brilliance was it to have Anakin save the day in Phantom Menace by accident? He didn't even mean to fly the ship into battle or do much of anything. THE SHIP WAS ON AUTO PILOT for half the battle. To say that is as powerful as Luke and his buddies being the only fighters left being forced to take action into their own hands and take down the Death Star in Episode IV, is just ludicrous.
In this movie we also learn absolutely nothing about what kind of a person Obi-Wan is, other than maybe strict and robotic. He doesn't express much emotion or even get much screen time really. |
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#91 |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,256
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Always hated the prequels, even when I was a kid. Only thing I liked was that Genndy Tartokovsky cartoon spin off thing.
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#92 |
Lois Lane --> Leia Lane
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States of Obama
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The worst thing about the prequels for me was how Padme died; talk about the worst giveup in history. Pretty hair and costumes couldn't make me forgive that one.
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Lois Lane Jessica Chastain, Natalie Dormer, Scarlett Johansson |
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#93 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
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A. Toy playing age kids, those movies are great for toys I can attest to that. I loved my star wars prequel toys when I was a kid. B. Parents of the kids who love these movies, because most parents tend to some what see the world through their kids eyes. C. Adults who were kids when the prequels came out, that refuse to admit something important to their childhood might suck. Anyone who's seen the Redlettermedia reviews understands that for ever defense and justification anyone has for calling these films masterpieces besides sheer opinion, there are 5 even larger reasons why they failed. |
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#94 |
Believer
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 2300 A.D.
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The short cartoons he did were incredible. Easily one of the best things to come out of the prequels as a whole and better than the films in some ways.
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Are you watching closely?
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#95 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 591
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still prefer the Genndy Tartokovsky's Clone Wars than the new ones (although they're also great, but sometimes very inconsistent) but both of them manage to make Anakin a more likeable, mature and noble character then the whinny kid Lucas wrote in the movies.
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#96 |
Lois Lane --> Leia Lane
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States of Obama
Posts: 4,502
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Ok so this Tartokovsky's guy did the Clone Wars cartoons from years ago, not the awful animation thing that is going on now? The CW cartoons were amazing, they actually made Anakin likable and showed him being a hero. And General Greivous was freakin amazing! That is the only villain from the prequels who was as good as Darth Vader. In Ep III he was gawd awful and pathetic.
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Lois Lane Jessica Chastain, Natalie Dormer, Scarlett Johansson |
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#97 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 362
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#98 |
Banned User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 507
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The Ewok movies are better than the Prequels.
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#99 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 89
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Begs the question, why post on this thread then? (Unbelievable)
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#100 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 89
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IMO there's a whole plethora to dislike about the PT (IF your of sane mind?) apart from the obvious. Script, acting, everything. The fundamentals for a good story were there (even though you knew how it would all turn out) The only 'unknown' aspect of it, was exactly HOW it would pan out? And oh dear...
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