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Old 01-04-2018, 01:18 PM   #301
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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They went back to the well with the second act team conflict (over an Infinity Stone no less), leading to the third act Avengers battling an army to save a city again. Ultron like Loki is reduced to comic relief more then threat. Even trashed by Hulk.

I do find it interesting that they went with the "team tearing apart" bit, when they are never really an established team, outside of the first 20 mins or so of AoU. And thus the tension comes across like it did in the first movie. Between people who don't know or get each other.
Tearing the team apart is ALWAYS going to be a crucial role in these films.

I do agree with the Ultron/Loki comment though. Joss went back to the well on that one and it's what makes the 3rd act ineffective.

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Old 01-14-2018, 07:16 PM   #302
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

Overrated comic book movies. I'd say "Deadpool".

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Old 01-15-2018, 10:58 PM   #303
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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Sad to say I still think of The Dark Knight as the most overrated comic book film. I really wanted to like it, but I think a part of it really drags and I think it did have a bit of the 'too much villains' problem.
More like too much Alfred and Gordon... and WAY too much Lucius Fox.

The only ones having any fun in those movies WERE the villains, which is why they stole the show.

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Old 01-17-2018, 07:25 PM   #304
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

I think the first Captain America movie is overrated. Of course Chris Evans was great as Cap, as he's been in later offerings in the MCU.

But as much as the origin story was everything I wanted in the first part of this flick, the whole action stuff with Red Skull and all later on just didn't go well with me.

Hearing Hugo Weaving casted as Red Skull made me hyped (as a fan of him way before stuff like The Matrix). But for me he somehow didn't feel as a great villian as Red Skull could be, which was a disappointment.

I just feel after the great origin story part, it just felt meh overall to me (and I've rewatched it to be sure). Those later action parts just didn't do anything to me.

Still feel I might need to watch it trice, at least for the origin story (and Hayley Atwell.. ).

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Old 01-17-2018, 07:32 PM   #305
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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I think the first Captain America movie is overrated. Of course Chris Evans was great as Cap, as he's been in later offerings in the MCU.

But as much as the origin story was everything I wanted in the first part of this flick, the whole action stuff with Red Skull and all later on just didn't go well with me.

Hearing Hugo Weaving casted as Red Skull made me hyped (as a fan of him way before stuff like The Matrix). But for me he somehow didn't feel as a great villian as Red Skull could be, which was a disappointment.

I just feel after the great origin story part, it just felt meh overall to me (and I've rewatched it to be sure). Those later action parts just didn't do anything to me.

Still feel I might need to watch it trice, at least for the origin story (and Hayley Atwell.. ).
my thoughts precisely. First half is underrated. Second half is overrated...so it's rated just fine

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Old 01-17-2018, 07:33 PM   #306
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

It's a perfect 5/7 movie.

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Old 01-17-2018, 08:00 PM   #307
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

Yeah, the gentlemen above said it pretty well. That's what it deserves. But IMHO still a bit overrated.

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Old 01-17-2018, 08:15 PM   #308
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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I think the first Captain America movie is overrated. Of course Chris Evans was great as Cap, as he's been in later offerings in the MCU.

But as much as the origin story was everything I wanted in the first part of this flick, the whole action stuff with Red Skull and all later on just didn't go well with me.

Hearing Hugo Weaving casted as Red Skull made me hyped (as a fan of him way before stuff like The Matrix). But for me he somehow didn't feel as a great villian as Red Skull could be, which was a disappointment.

I just feel after the great origin story part, it just felt meh overall to me (and I've rewatched it to be sure). Those later action parts just didn't do anything to me.

Still feel I might need to watch it trice, at least for the origin story (and Hayley Atwell.. ).
Honestly, I wasn't overly crazy about the first Captain America when I saw it the first time (probably because I went to the midnight premiere and I was tired), but I appreciated it a lot more the second time and now I'd even rank it among the better MCU origin stories, even superhero origin stories in general.

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Old 01-17-2018, 08:36 PM   #309
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

Someone said that TDKR rides the coattails of TDK. I feel that The First Avenger rides the coattails of Winter Soldier and Civil War. It often feels like some people retroactively find TFA great because of what came after it.

There's definitely a reason why MCU Cap dosen't really take off until Winter Soldier, unlike Iron Man who shot up to A-List status after one film.

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Old 01-18-2018, 07:45 AM   #310
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

I said that TDKR rides the coattails of TDK.

Biggest reason is some people put TDKR as almost the same level as TDK or just a small step down from it despite TDK being on a different level.

And a strong argument can be made that Nolan's Batman didn't really take off until TDK.

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Old 01-18-2018, 08:51 AM   #311
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

I like Chris Evans and in fact the whole damn cast of The First Avengers. Wonderful music too. In fact, I'll even say the first hour, while very straightforward and conventional, is a great way to introduce Steve Rogers and does a wonderful job setting his world and story up all the way through when he is performing for the USO near the frontlines of Europe.

It is just after he goes on his first mission, the movie goes off the rails for me. It just loses all narrative momentum and, as many people have said, becomes basically a glorified montage and clip show. Bucky's death is therefore meaningless to me, because I never invested in the character, and Cap's fight against the Red Skull is also equally disappointing because the film works so hard to underplay the WWII aesthetic. Not only do we not really see him fight Nazis, but the faceless Stormtrooper-esque (Star Wars, not WWI, heh) HYDRA guys use laser weapons also like Star Wars.

So yeah, I think fans do overrate that movie. While it has its flaws, Wonder Woman showed last year how to do a period piece wartime superhero movie much better as a whole, even if it stumbles some in the third act.

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Old 01-18-2018, 09:29 AM   #312
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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Someone said that TDKR rides the coattails of TDK. I feel that The First Avenger rides the coattails of Winter Soldier and Civil War. It often feels like some people retroactively find TFA great because of what came after it.

There's definitely a reason why MCU Cap dosen't really take off until Winter Soldier, unlike Iron Man who shot up to A-List status after one film.
Definitely. I liked TFA when I first saw it (definitely more than I thought I would), and thought it was a decent introduction to a character I had no interest in, but I think it’s an overall forgettable movie. WS is what made Steve my favorite Avenger.

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Old 01-18-2018, 09:40 AM   #313
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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I said that TDKR rides the coattails of TDK.

Biggest reason is some people put TDKR as almost the same level as TDK or just a small step down from it despite TDK being on a different level.

And a strong argument can be made that Nolan's Batman didn't really take off until TDK.
You're right, it didn't, BB was a sleeper hit. Though you could definitely attribute a portion of that to the fact people were still wary of Batman after B&R. And either due to the advertising, or the fact that reboots weren't as prevelant in 05, people kept saying it was a prequel to 89. I remember people posting compliations of news outlets reporting it as a prequel on the BB boards back in the day.

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Old 01-18-2018, 09:49 AM   #314
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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I like Chris Evans and in fact the whole damn cast of The First Avengers. Wonderful music too. In fact, I'll even say the first hour, while very straightforward and conventional, is a great way to introduce Steve Rogers and does a wonderful job setting his world and story up all the way through when he is performing for the USO near the frontlines of Europe.

It is just after he goes on his first mission, the movie goes off the rails for me. It just loses all narrative momentum and, as many people have said, becomes basically a glorified montage and clip show. Bucky's death is therefore meaningless to me, because I never invested in the character, and Cap's fight against the Red Skull is also equally disappointing because the film works so hard to underplay the WWII aesthetic. Not only do we not really see him fight Nazis, but the faceless Stormtrooper-esque (Star Wars, not WWI, heh) HYDRA guys use laser weapons also like Star Wars.

So yeah, I think fans do overrate that movie. While it has its flaws, Wonder Woman showed last year how to do a period piece wartime superhero movie much better as a whole, even if it stumbles some in the third act.
I would agree. I like the film, but the second half definitely dips into formulaic territory.

I'm not sure I would call it overrated though, if only because I've never seen the general public hold it up as great. When it came out it got about the reaction I think it deserved. It's at 80% on RT from critics, which may be a tad high...but not too much, and 74% from audiences, which I think is fair.

I don't even see many fans holding it up as great. On here when we were debating the best superhero trilogy, (it was mostly between Cap and TDKT) even the people supporting Cap were saying "well, TFA is clearly not as good as BB was" and things of that nature.

Most people refer to it as simply a good film. And that's what it is. It's solid. It had moments of greatness, but it's not great overall, it's just a solid fairly by the numbers origin story. It played it as safe as you could when you're dealing with a character who could easily have veered into extreme corn territory.

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Old 01-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #315
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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my thoughts precisely. First half is underrated. Second half is overrated...so it's rated just fine
Perfectly put.

I also want to point out one scene in particular that is underrated. "The star-spangled man with a plan". Is that not one of MCU's most brilliant moments? Awesome song, perfect way to tell Steve's story at that point and something really unique in superhero movies.

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Old 01-18-2018, 11:15 AM   #316
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And a strong argument can be made that Nolan's Batman didn't really take off until TDK.
Batman Begins had to follow Batman & Robin and reestablish goodwill for the franchise. Even with that disadvantage, it became a sleeper hit and popularized the modern reboot trend, meaning its influence stretches beyond the CBM genre. Even without being the megahit that TDK was, it still did more for Batman than what TFA did for Cap.

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Old 01-18-2018, 11:27 AM   #317
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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Batman Begins had to follow Batman & Robin and reestablish goodwill for the franchise. Even with that disadvantage, it became a sleeper hit and popularized the modern reboot trend, meaning its influence stretches beyond the CBM genre. Even without being the megahit that TDK was, it still did more for Batman than what TFA did for Cap.
Circumstances regardless, it's still the same. I think Batman Begins is a solid movie and even help turn around the character after B&R, but you can't argue that Nolan's Batman didn't hit the stratosphere in popularity until TDK.

Note: Realizing that Batman in itself isn't already popular because he's Batman.

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Old 01-18-2018, 11:43 AM   #318
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

It's not really the same. It took two films for Nolan's Batman to take off. Evans' Cap didn't really take off until WS, which means even his appearance in the Avengers didn't do much for him.

Hell, if we're really being honest, Evans' Cap never really hit the stratosphere. It says something when the only time a solo film of his made TDK-level money is when Iron Man, The Avengers and Spider-Man show up.

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Old 01-18-2018, 11:49 AM   #319
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

Iron Man 3.....

But if you're saying it took 2 films for Nolan's Batman to hit, what does that say about Iron Man that you said it took one movie? Unless we excuse that by saying, it had to work against Schumacher's Batman.

And if we are using excuses, Avengers wasn't a Captain America movie and not a direct sequel.

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Old 01-18-2018, 11:59 AM   #320
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

Avengers not being a Cap movie is irrelevant. He was a major leading character in it. Civil War is a Cap movie technically, but who in their right mind is going to try and argue Tony and other chracters didn't shine in it just because its a Cap movie.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:04 PM   #321
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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Circumstances regardless, it's still the same. I think Batman Begins is a solid movie and even help turn around the character after B&R, but you can't argue that Nolan's Batman didn't hit the stratosphere in popularity until TDK.

Note: Realizing that Batman in itself isn't already popular because he's Batman.
You realize that's like looking at two people doing a 100 yard dash, but one starting forty yards ahead of the other, and when the guy in the back speaks up you saying "circumstances aside, you're both running the same race."

You can't put aside circumstances. To do so is to ignore reality. The two films had completely different situations, and you have to take that into account.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:29 PM   #322
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But if you're saying it took 2 films for Nolan's Batman to hit, what does that say about Iron Man that you said it took one movie? Unless we excuse that by saying, it had to work against Schumacher's Batman.
It says that being the first ever Iron Man film and being a really good movie is a better position than being the fifth Batman film that had to follow a bad fourth Batman film, while being one of the first major films to establish the modern idea of remaking a franchise, while trying to save the damaged rep of said film franchise.

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And if we are using excuses, Avengers wasn't a Captain America movie and not a direct sequel.
Which is not a good excuse. You mentioned Iron Man 3. After being in the Avengers, Iron Man 3 ended up grossing 590 million more dollars than Iron Man 2, raking in 1.2 billion dollars. The Winter Soldier made $364 million more than First Avenger, but only made $714 Million overall. Even Guardians of the Galaxy outgrossed it.

In other words, The Avengers gave these guys a boost, but one guy, who was already successful, made TDK level money due to the boost, while another guy, despite being in the Avengers, still had a sequel that was outgrossed by the likes of a talking tree and a R rated character like Deadpool, characters who didn't have the benefit of showing up in one of the biggest, paradigm shifting movies of all time.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #323
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

Well who's on the 40 yards ahead? Evans/Cap for portraying a character with very limited previous incarnations and therefore no expectations? Or Bale/Bats for portraying a Top 2 popular character and having the built in excitement already there despite the previous 2 iterations?

I don't want to get away from my point which if the knock against Cap not coming into his own until TWS, and if you want don't want to include Avengers it took 2/3 movies. My point was that it took Nolan's Batman 2 movies.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:43 PM   #324
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I just think the only people who actually love Captain America as a character are Americans.
They're the majority anyway. People outside of America simply don't think highly of him and rightfully so.

I mean you have a white dude rocking the Puerto Rican flag as a costume. He's just difficult to be taken seriously.

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Old 01-18-2018, 12:51 PM   #325
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Default Re: Overrated Comic Book Films - Part 1

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Well who's on the 40 yards ahead? Evans/Cap for portraying a character with very limited previous incarnations and therefore no expectations? Or Bale/Bats for portraying a Top 2 popular character and having the built in excitement already there?

I don't want to get away from my point which if the knock against Cap not coming into his own until TWS, and if you want don't want to include Avengers it took 2/3 movies. My point was that it took Nolan's Batman 2 movies.
I honestly don't think either were really ahead of one another, I think they were two films with radically different circumstances. So it's not a perfect metaphor in that since. My main point above is that you can't discount the circumstances each film was in.

They both had unique challenges. Batman was by far a better known character, but one coming off a poorly received film and no live action interpretation for 8 years. Cap was coming on to new ground, but was a character that the general audience wad largely unaware of, and if they were aware of him, mostly they knew him as the dude in the goofy flag suit.

Both films had hurdles to overcome, and did so. And I don't think either are overrated.

And Laughter Lives...there is absolutely no evidence to support your point about other countries. Each Cap film has done solid numbers oversees. Nothing insane, but also nothing poor.

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