The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > The Avengers > Avengers: Age of Ultron

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2013, 09:20 PM   #426
Scarlet Spider
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,727
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
What does that have to do with anything we were talking about here?

My point there was that it was clear he would not be Eastern European (ie foreign) in the first place because he was American. Completely different from the situation here, where they're having the twins be British.
Elizabeth Olsen (like Evan Peters) is an American. She was born and raised in California. You had major issues with them casting an American to play a European character because they wouldn't be able to pull it off.

Scarlet Spider is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:22 PM   #427
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

EASTERN EUROPEAN. I knew you wouldn't get it.

Read the post before your's.

Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #428
Scarlet Spider
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,727
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Is anyone else following Dent's logic right now?

Scarlet Spider is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:55 PM   #429
ericadawn16
Side-Kick
 
ericadawn16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 590
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

I've been impressed with everything I've seen Olsen in so this choice is acceptable to me. However, it is a rumor so who knows?

ericadawn16 is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:29 PM   #430
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenReilly View Post
Is anyone else following Dent's logic right now?
What is hard to understand about Eastern Europeans being physiologically different from Western European descendants??

Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:32 PM   #431
Wine-N-Cheese
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 202
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenReilly View Post
Is anyone else following Dent's logic right now?
The last page was fully confuzzling. But of what I can make out, he seems to be against Anglo actors playing Eastern Euro characters, but is okay with them playing Wanda and Pietro in Avengers: AoU because he's sure that they'll be whitewashed into British characters. Am I close?

Wine-N-Cheese is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:43 PM   #432
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

BenReilly, your problem is that you brung up something entirely different than the conversation that was being discussed here. On top of that, you have some preconceived notion about what you thought I meant months ago without reading entire conversations and grasping what was being talked about there. To end this for future reference, here is my stance on the twins and the difference between what that conversation was actually about and what you stated about me "not liking them casting Americans for European roles"...which is a bastardization of what I said.

1. Someone said Evans could possibly play him as Eastern European due to how Johansson plays Black Widow, McKellen plays Magneto, Schmidt plays Red Skull, etc. and responded that I didn't like the idea and don't think he could do it because Eastern Europeans are physiologically different from Americans, who are mostly Western European descendants, along with Canadians and Australians. Johansson can play Black Widow because she does have Eastern European in her and it makes sense for Widow to have a full American accent due to being a spy. That was the basis of the conversation you're bringing up, completely different than what we're talking about now with the twins being British. Which leads me to my next point.

2. I have no problem with the twins being British because they are still foreign and European, which is what's most important. Their type of European doesn't matter as much to me, as long as they're orphan and grew up in poverty or a village. As such, I have no problem with them casting an American actor as Scarlet Witch because an American, particularly one like Olsen with blond hair and green eyes, can pull off being British with an accent change and be believable. If Marvel were trying to play the twins as Eastern European and cast American and British actors then I would have a problem.

3. My overall problem with Fox/Bryan's approach is that their throwing out everything about Quicksilver's character other than the fact he is Magneto's son, which isn't at all the most important aspect of the character or even what makes the character who he is. The Fox film has none of the essence that made Quicksilver in the comics Quicksilver.

There.

Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:47 PM   #433
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wine-N-Cheese View Post
The last page was fully confuzzling. But of what I can make out, he seems to be against Anglo actors playing Eastern Euro characters, but is okay with them playing Wanda and Pietro in Avengers: AoU because he's sure that they'll be whitewashed into British characters. Am I close?
Yes.

Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:59 PM   #434
Wine-N-Cheese
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 202
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Okay, but I don't think British-foreign is the a same thing as Eastern European-foreign. There are physiological and cultural differences. Add Romani to that, and the differences get even wider.

Wine-N-Cheese is offline  
Old 08-21-2013, 11:09 PM   #435
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

But that's not the most important part of their characters to the Avengers. They rarely (if ever really) go into the specifics about their race and ethnicity in the comics. Specific details like them coming from a gypsy village isn't as important to me as long as they capture the essence of them being foreigners who come from lesser beginnings and only had each other as real family. Then they will be getting the characters and their role on the Avengers team right.

And I can understand why they didn't go for Eastern Europeans because it's hard to find them in Hollywood, hell it's nearly impossible to find them as young as they wanted. So I see where Marvel is coming from with this.

Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:11 AM   #436
def28
Side-Kick
 
def28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,583
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenReilly View Post
Elizabeth Olsen is a wonderful young actress and any superhero film would be extremely lucky to have her. The role might have been written for Saoirse Ronan (or modeled after her) but Olsen is fantastic, and is just as good (if not better) of a choice.
Agreed

def28 is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:45 AM   #437
Scarlet Spider
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,727
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wine-N-Cheese View Post
The last page was fully confuzzling. But of what I can make out, he seems to be against Anglo actors playing Eastern Euro characters, but is okay with them playing Wanda and Pietro in Avengers: AoU because he's sure that they'll be whitewashed into British characters. Am I close?
It just seems like splitting hairs.

It's okay if an American actor is cast to play a British character, but it's not okay for an American actor to play an Eastern European character, even though technically where talking about the EXACT SAME CHARACTER(S).

Mr. Dent, I understand your POV, I just don't agree with it, and find it flawed.

Scarlet Spider is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:57 AM   #438
Wine-N-Cheese
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 202
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Well, they won't be the exact same character if they're ethnically different, unless you think all Europeans look the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
But that's not the most important part of their characters to the Avengers. They rarely (if ever really) go into the specifics about their race and ethnicity in the comics. Specific details like them coming from a gypsy village isn't as important to me as long as they capture the essence of them being foreigners who come from lesser beginnings and only had each other as real family. Then they will be getting the characters and their role on the Avengers team right.

And I can understand why they didn't go for Eastern Europeans because it's hard to find them in Hollywood, hell it's nearly impossible to find them as young as they wanted. So I see where Marvel is coming from with this.
Let me put this another way: How would being British make the characters think or behave differently than if they were American?

Why do you think it's important that they be non-American anyway?


Last edited by Wine-N-Cheese; 08-22-2013 at 02:21 AM.
Wine-N-Cheese is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 02:30 AM   #439
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenReilly View Post
It just seems like splitting hairs.

It's okay if an American actor is cast to play a British character, but it's not okay for an American actor to play an Eastern European character, even though technically where talking about the EXACT SAME CHARACTER(S).

Mr. Dent, I understand your POV, I just don't agree with it, and find it flawed.
I'll begin with this v
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wine-N-Cheese View Post
Well, they won't be the exact same character if they're ethnically different, unless you think all Europeans look the same.
That aside, I explained the distinct difference. It's bad casting to have an American play an Eastern European when they're physically different, it's not believable. An American like Olsen playing a British character is believable because they're direct western european descendants. There's nothing flawed about that at all.

The only reason you're claiming it's flawed is because we're talking about two interpretations of the same character, and sorry to break this to you, but not all things in life are equal. It's two completely different circumstances. We're talking about one case where the character is British and one would-be-case where the character is Eastern European (and it's would-be because it's not happening anyway). You're misplacing your feelings of unfairness on a fault in my logic that's not there.

You're coming from the completely wrong place on this. It's not about them being the same character, it's what interpretation makes the most sense for the film and situation. There's a reason Marvel is changing them to British while not being lazy like Fox and just making Quicksilver American.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wine-N-Cheese View Post
Let me put this another way: How would being British make the characters think or behave differently than if they were American?

Why do you think it's important that they be non-American anyway?
It's important because they come from a place different than the other Avengers and have different values. Tony Stark is a billionaire American Industrialist. Captain America is an American icon and hero. Banner is an ex-US military scientist. Thor is, you know, an Asgardian. The twins are a couple of foreign orphans who grew up in poverty/a village (however they play it, moral is they have lesser beginnings). It's a complete dichotomy from the other members, and you lose a lot of that by making them American. As foreigners, they're less inclined to be wowed by national icons like Tony Stark and Captain America on name alone and there are basic values and things that can be brought along by making them Western European (being British doesn't mean you grow up in a big UK city) that differ from the way Americans do things. That's beside the point though, what's most important is that they come from a place that's different from where the Avengers are from and don't go along with everything they believe in. It also adds diversity to the team (yes they aren't black, asian, or w/e but they're still foreign) by not having all the normal (i.e. not Thor) team members be American, with the exception of Black Widow who is more or less ethnicity neutral at this point.

On top of that, it keeps better with the comics in general. I'd rather have them be understandably changed from Eastern European to British thus keeping their foreign roots than have them be completely American.


Last edited by Mr. Dent; 08-22-2013 at 02:37 AM.
Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 03:46 AM   #440
Laderlappen
Fat, drunk, and stupid
 
Laderlappen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,137
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Who cares about the nationalities of the actors and characters?! We should just be thankful we are getting a huge talent like Elizabeth Olsen.

Laderlappen is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 04:38 AM   #441
Wine-N-Cheese
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 202
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
It's important because they come from a place different than the other Avengers and have different values. Tony Stark is a billionaire American Industrialist. Captain America is an American icon and hero. Banner is an ex-US military scientist. Thor is, you know, an Asgardian. The twins are a couple of foreign orphans who grew up in poverty/a village (however they play it, moral is they have lesser beginnings). It's a complete dichotomy from the other members, and you lose a lot of that by making them American. As foreigners, they're less inclined to be wowed by national icons like Tony Stark and Captain America on name alone and there are basic values and things that can be brought along by making them Western European (being British doesn't mean you grow up in a big UK city) that differ from the way Americans do things. That's beside the point though, what's most important is that they come from a place that's different from where the Avengers are from and don't go along with everything they believe in. It also adds diversity to the team (yes they aren't black, asian, or w/e but they're still foreign) by not having all the normal (i.e. not Thor) team members be American, with the exception of Black Widow who is more or less ethnicity neutral at this point.

On top of that, it keeps better with the comics in general. I'd rather have them be understandably changed from Eastern European to British thus keeping their foreign roots than have them be completely American.
Well, as someone who is neither British nor American, I don't see that much of a cultural distinction. I mean, there's so much exchange in cultural data between Anglo-Saxon countries, and being American doesn't stop you from being an impoverished orphan with differing opinions to the existing Avengers. Plus, it’s not as if cultural/ethnic backgrounds drive the characters in the comics, anyway. Any differences in behaviour can be attributed to the twins being shut off from society and being former terrorists.

Frankly, I’ll be very disappointed if this British thing turns out to be true. It’ll just be Whedon satisfying his inner-Anglophile, unfortunately, at the expense of ethnic diversity and the careers of two minority actors.

Also, a British kid called "Pietro Maximoff"? I guess that's where the "Euro and edgy" comes in.

Wine-N-Cheese is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 05:37 AM   #442
marcvader
Lurker #1
SHH! Global Moderator
 
marcvader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The MIA
Posts: 12,968
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Well there aren't many gypsies here in the US to speak of if at all while England does have communities of gypsies. We have that.

__________________
AQUAMAN
**December 21, 2018**

Twitter- @mrpink13
marcvader is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 06:58 AM   #443
R_Hythlodeus
Nerd Supreme
 
R_Hythlodeus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: vienna, austria (europe) 6.784 km east of new york
Posts: 8,353
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Human View Post
Not to mention Black Widow who doesnt have that Stalingrad accent; yeah I know a top spy can take any accent, but when she is around Nick or the superfriends, she is herself and should have her natural accent
you realize that this is not how accents work, do you?

__________________
The First Family is home again. I bend the knee to our mouse-eared overlords!
------------------------------


ZWERG/ELF

a fantasy RPG based bilingual webcomic


R_Hythlodeus is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:02 AM   #444
Mr. Dent
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,941
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wine-N-Cheese View Post
Well, as someone who is neither British nor American, I don't see that much of a cultural distinction. I mean, there's so much exchange in cultural data between Anglo-Saxon countries, and being American doesn't stop you from being an impoverished orphan with differing opinions to the existing Avengers. Plus, it’s not as if cultural/ethnic backgrounds drive the characters in the comics, anyway. Any differences in behaviour can be attributed to the twins being shut off from society and being former terrorists.

Frankly, I’ll be very disappointed if this British thing turns out to be true. It’ll just be Whedon satisfying his inner-Anglophile, unfortunately, at the expense of ethnic diversity and the careers of two minority actors.

Also, a British kid called "Pietro Maximoff"? I guess that's where the "Euro and edgy" comes in.
Well you can't expect them to go out and find young Eastern European actors in Hollywood when you can't. :/

This is why I can understand why they're going British, out of necessity, as I stated before. It's better than them just not making him foreign at all.

And there's a ton of difference between being from England and being from America. Like really, you don't understand the difference? Them just being from a different place and country in itself is a big enough difference. I explained why that is important.

Mr. Dent is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #445
smashmode
House Stark
 
smashmode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,917
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

jesus.

smashmode is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #446
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 12,044
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcvader View Post
Well there aren't many gypsies here in the US to speak of if at all while England does have communities of gypsies. We have that.
You don't know as many Gypsies as I do, then.
Strange and wonderful culture.
And to be perfectly honest, if for some reason, they chose to make the Maximoffs American gypsies, there's plenty of historical precedent. There's a lot of Romani communities around the Southeast, especially. Hell, Discovery Channel even has a couple of shows about them.

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #447
Chewy
REDACTED
 
Chewy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 13,000
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Marvel Studios is in talks with Bradley Cooper and Elizabeth Olsen to join the casts of two of its movies, sources confirm to The Hollywood Reporter.

Marvel is in early talks with Cooper for the actor to voice Rocket Raccoon in Guardians of the Galaxy, its sci-fi adventure movie. And the company is in negotiations with Olsen to play the Scarlet Witch in The Avengers: The Age of Ultron, the sequel to the billion-dollar grossing 2012 movie, multiple sources tell Heat Vision.

Sources familiar with the deals say that Olsen’s dealmaking is further along than Cooper’s, which is just beginning. Bleeding Cool first reported Olsen's negotiations. Latino Review first reported Cooper's offer.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...-rocket-612128

Chewy is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #448
xeno000
IRON MAN WAS RIGHT!
 
xeno000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: The Benatar
Posts: 8,237
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
Well, that's more casting news that's going to rile up the geek community.

__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Feige

It’s something that’s easy to take for granted, growing up in the United States as a white male, that my cinematic heroes look like me...It’s something that over the course of these ten years, having a certain amount of power over what type of movies are made and what type of actors we hire, I want everybody to have that feeling. We don’t take it for granted that people want to see themselves reflected in our heroes and our characters.
xeno000 is online now  
Old 08-22-2013, 01:54 PM   #449
747
Fanboy rivalry? Yawn.
 
747's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,181
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

I totally dig both castings.

747 is offline  
Old 08-22-2013, 02:00 PM   #450
JP
Smelly
 
JP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 60,109
Default Re: The Official Scarlet Witch Thread

So is Dent also violently against Olsen?

JP is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of Mandatory Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2018 All Rights Reserved.