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Old 05-04-2014, 04:24 PM   #76
Alt-Josh
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 5

The more I think about this movie, the more I like it. And I think it will hold up very well for me. The Peter Gwen stuff is so compelling to me, and made all the more engaging because we know what's coming at the end, and THAT scene is flawless as far as I'm concerned.

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Old 05-04-2014, 04:37 PM   #77
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 5

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The more I think about this movie, the more I like it. And I think it will hold up very well for me. The Peter Gwen stuff is so compelling to me, and made all the more engaging because we know what's coming at the end, and THAT scene is flawless as far as I'm concerned.
After seeing it a second time I like it every bit as much as the first one (for some similar and some different reasons though). Not a knock on the film because I freaking love the first one.

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Old 05-04-2014, 04:47 PM   #78
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Rhino- If he was like this as a main character and was like how Paul Giamatti acted like during the whole movie, I would have hated it and I would have rolled my eyes, but I was happy how he utilized for the most part just a comedic side villain that Spider-Man takes down, funny but stupid describes him perfectly. It reminded me a lot of animated incarnations of Rhino(And lesser extent Stan Lee's Rhino) only with an overbearing Russian accent(I wish Paul toned it down) used by the bigger bad(first appearance it was the Russian criminals and scientist who wanted a "perfect assassin- brainless--obedient--invincible" to abduct John Jameson's for their own purposes, in Spectacular Spider-Man Norman Osborn and Big Man/Tombstone and later Doc Ock, Spider-Man TAS Kingpin and Webb movies it's Harry and Gustav Fiers/Gentlemen ) as a henchmen to throw at the city and Spider-Man for a bigger purpose(here to representation the escalation in super villains created by Oscorp and a way for Spider-Man to have fun with and rag on, while representing what Gwen and Aunt May said for Spider-Man to carry on despite the loss and try to carry it with him) I would hope they tone Paul Giamatti's Rhino down(personality wise and armor look) the but keep the rest of it (what little of it there were). Ultimately even though I knew that the armor wouldn't be in the movie for long, the Rhino armor shouldn't have been used in the promos in any form instead of trying to hint there was going to be a big fight happening, I would have enjoyed waiting until the actual movie to actually seeing him instead of seeing him before hand in posters, and clips acting like it was a teasing a bigger fight, people had a right to feel ripped off in that account(and I even then I enjoyed some of the concept art and Hot Toys version of the Rhino better than the actual version) I thought the armor was better than making him a as a change of pace and like Donald said they got rid of basically all of the cross species mutations after the Lizard incident(I always thick polymer mat suit similar to a rhinoceros hide thought the was just a simplified armor Aleksei just had bonded to him, Spectacular Spider-Man defined Rhino's bodysuit as "highly durable titanium resin armor" and Ultimate R.H.I.N.O. is a robotic/mechanical armor that he stole and I wouldn't have liked it if Rhino was a cross species and looked like the one in the Amazing Spider-Man movie game or Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and people would have probably complained just as much if not more)

Harry Osborn - I wish we could have saw more of the Peter and Harry relationship, because I did enjoy the little we got (Especially when Peter went on Harry's hair while Harry joked about Peter's "uni-brow") but Dane Dehaan was enjoyable as Harry, although Goblin debut felt kind of rushed it doesn't feel totally out of character but I kind of can see how he pieced together how Peter was Spider-Man. It shows what probably would happen if someone else got affected by the spider venom in my opinion I wish Spidey and Gwen just tried to interact with him more, Ultimately even though I knew what ,Harry as the Green Goblin shouldn't have been used in the promos in any form, I would have enjoyed waiting until the actual movie to a or Norman would revealed to be still alive and using the whole thing as a way to test if Harry was ready or not for the Osborn legacy before he interacts and kills Gwen. I understand why Spider-Man got to keep his blood away from Harry before Harry even ask him and hearing Richard Parker confirm it himself, I would think if Harry give him longer time, Peter would have done more to find a cure for him. This explains Harry's personality in this film perfectly :




Overall - to me I thought it didn't deserve of the flack a lot that it got and it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. It did needed to fix some plot points and have some plot holes but overall it was an enjoyable movie. I hated Khafka and glad he died, he was just annoying and rework some of Electro's lines and pre Max Dillon's character arc. I didn't feel the plots were as tangled as some people made or there was as many maybe rework some of the scenes in order for the movie to feel more cohesive because essentially all the storylines was the same but they didn't feel but I like how they build up on some of the stories and closed the storylines the first movie started, probably if Spidey. I agree that it was really foolish of the bystanders to be standing and watching. I think most people would have or at least should have ran away. I would think only a few people would have stayed to probably record or something. And at the end of the film the boy ran unexpectedly I was surprised no one had the courage to come to get him, but that didn't hurt the character.

I did enjoy the callbacks to the Lizard and the first movie(but I agree I would have seen more connected with the Oscorp experimentation and still feel like a stand alone film) In no way did it feel like Electro was the main villain it was Oscorp, I hated that a lot of good dialogues and scenes from the trailers weren't used in the movie , in some aspects it's a better movie than the first one, in others the first movie did a lot of things better. Ultimately it's holds it's own as a Spider-Man film in my opinion. I feel like you could have switched Alistair Smythe or Felicia's character with any other character with a name from the comics like Liz Allen or Barton Hamilton or something or made them new characters it wouldn't have made much of a difference in what they did,you could have Donald Menken done all the things Alistair would have done in this film and it wouldn't have made a big change in terms of story (I honestly felt the same way about Curt Connors in Spider-Man 2 or some of the mobsters in the Dark Knight movies or some of the agents in AOS).

Here's how I felt about specific scenes and characters and what things I enjoyed but needed improvement. This movie, I supported it for the start and hope instead of dividing audience it would find the right balance that could bring them together and almost everyone can enjoy like the first 2 Raimi, maybe I came off a little harder than I intended but I do not shy away or regret defending or loving these movies. They are pretty faithful to the comics in my opinion, although some felt like an overly campy and could have been handled better the tone was pretty good to me.

Great write up. I completely agreed with the Electro stuff. I think he could have benefited with more scenes depicting his childhood and I would have opted for the no gap and no come over look for him tbh.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:01 PM   #79
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Great write up. I completely agreed with the Electro stuff. I think he could have benefited with more scenes depicting his childhood and I would have opted for the no gap and no come over look for him tbh.
Yeah, the comb-over was actually Jamie's sister idea and the gap in the teeth was Jamie's idea i think. So, it's not exactly the writers's fault that Max's character was goofy. At least to some extent.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:04 PM   #80
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Teekay, what do you have for me from IMDB this time?


Some of that stuff from yesterday was a laugh riot.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:05 PM   #81
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Yeah, the comb-over was actually Jamie's sister idea and the gap in the teeth was Jamie's idea i think. So, it's not exactly the writers's fault that Max's character was goofy. At least to some extent.
Then it's Webb's fault for agreeing with and implementing suggestions that run counter to the whole "invisible" idea.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:07 PM   #82
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Yeah, the comb-over was actually Jamie's sister idea and the gap in the teeth was Jamie's idea i think. So, it's not exactly the writers's fault that Max's character was goofy. At least to some extent.
I think it would have helped. Honestly though I feel like this movie is also an introduction to Electro. It's not the end all be all of his character arc. If he comes back in the Sin Six they could expand his characterization more and really emulate the comics better.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:10 PM   #83
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Then it's Webb's fault for agreeing with and implementing suggestions that run counter to the whole "invisible" idea.
It's a collaboration not a dictatorship. The actors have a say and that's not how directing works. And tbh he wasn't only in the film for a short amount of time and had 4 short scenes.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:14 PM   #84
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It's a collaboration not a dictatorship. The actors have a say and that's not how directing works. And tbh he wasn't only in the film for a short amount of time and had 4 short scenes.
The director should have the good sense to disagree with the actors when it is blatantly obvious that adorning Max up with those elements make him stand out, not invisible. Disagreeing for the good of the movie is not dictatorship.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:15 PM   #85
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Yes, because one guys opinion on a message board is enough to get Sony in a tizzy.

Give me a break.

"HEY GUYS! THIS ONE DUDE ON SOME MESSAGE BOARD SAID OUR MOVIE WAS AGGRESSIVELY STUPID! WE'RE F--KED!!!
One guy on a message board? More like the worst box office results in franchise history, "eh" audience reactions and a rotten on rotten tomatoes. It's not just me that's for damn sure lol and to say that everything has been smooth sailing for this film just because YOU liked it, well, the irony is palpable then isn't it?

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:16 PM   #86
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It's a collaboration not a dictatorship. The actors have a say and that's not how directing works. And tbh he wasn't only in the film for a short amount of time and had 4 short scenes.
I was thinking, being an actor with a caliber like Jamie Foxx's he must have had a say in what it would be done with his character. Maybe, Webb had to agree with him occasionally.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:17 PM   #87
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It's a collaboration not a dictatorship. The actors have a say and that's not how directing works. And tbh he wasn't only in the film for a short amount of time and had 4 short scenes.
Do you even know what a director's purpose is? He oversees everything, everything on screen should be there because he deemed it perfect, or as accurate to his vision as possible. Actors don't have a say, they're under contract. Directors have a say.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:24 PM   #88
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I just came back from the movie and I have to say I really liked the movie! The movie isn't perfect but it still is an fun movie to go and watch the cheesy parts of the movie didn't bother me since it is a comic book movie the rhino parts felt comic booky and it didn't bother me that much. Some of the action scenes were really well shot. All the actors were great and if there is one actor that really stood out to me it would be Dehaan he nailed it the weakest character in the movie was electro I felt if we would have gotten a few more scenes with him he would have made a decent villain. Garfield and stone were amazing. The flow of the movie seemed off at first but I got used to it. The score was nice and heroic it really added value when spidey is swinging around and saving people of new york. Overall I liked the film and I thought it was definitely better than the first and is a great addition to the new spidey saga I give it an 8/10

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:26 PM   #89
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Do you even know what a director's purpose is? He oversees everything, everything on screen should be there because he deemed it perfect, or as accurate to his vision as possible. Actors don't have a say, they're under contract. Directors have a say.
LOL. It's amazing you say that because FYI I am a professional actor. Just because your under contract that means you don't have a say. That's not true. Good directors collaborate.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:27 PM   #90
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I just came back from the movie and I have to say I really liked the movie! The movie isn't perfect but it still is an fun movie to go and watch the cheesy parts of the movie didn't bother me since it is a comic book movie the rhino parts felt comic booky and it didn't bother me that much. Some of the action scenes were really well shot. All the actors were great and if there is one actor that really stood out to me it would be Dehaan he nailed it the weakest character in the movie was electro I felt if we would have gotten a few more scenes with him he would have made a decent villain. Garfield and stone were amazing. The flow of the movie seemed off at first but I got used to it. The score was nice and heroic it really added value when spidey is swinging around and saving people of new york. Overall I liked the film and I thought it was definitely better than the first and is a great addition to the new spidey saga I give it an 8/10

I agree with this. I think Electro did need a bit more scenes but all and all he still was a real threat to Spider-man and the entire city.

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:38 PM   #91
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Saw it yesterday. Heard from friends and reviews so my expectation were pretty low. I get really turned off when studios start showing so much, too much, in the trailers and commercials. I find this marketing behavior to be a bad omen...as if they're trying too hard to sell it.

Anyway. My review:

I really dug Amazing Spider-man 1. It's not a perfect film for me, but I was open to the new attempt to tell the story. I dug Garfield and Stone in their characters and really loved the somewhat grounded take on the effects, most notably the swinging and learning to crawl aspects. The villain and plot were overall the weakest elements for me and I'd have to say...that follows suit with the sequel.

In Amazing Spider-man 2, I loved everything about the portrayal of Peter and Gwen. The have a great onscreen chemistry and even though there's that will-they, won't they back and forth...I found myself enjoying the moments they share together. I loved how Peter is haunted by her father. He's growing up and you hope he learns the right lesson before it's too late. Peter and Gwen, are two characters who know each other very well, and I liked that they genuinely help each other grow. Gwen is just a smart, lovely character. I loved these two so much more than the Peter and Mary Jane, and their drama, of the first set of movies. Aunt May is also really well down and I really felt the moment where she broke down to Peter half way through the movie. And even Harry (Pre-Crazy) is handled well.

I also loved everything about Spidey. While the effects and swinging movements were less grounded and real to me and had changed from the stylization of the first movie, I still liked what was on screen. I liked his humor and personalization too. Garfield is just perfect as Peter and Spidey. This Peter really enjoys being Spiderman and that fun really plays well here.

Unfortunately...in my opinion...everything else really bogs down this movie. I hated the villains. Hated the over the top dialog. Hated the plot, if it could be called that. And the worst sin (because I can live with cheese) is the intent to add in so much to this movie. I'm glad that the Mary Jane stuff was cut, because I can't honestly see how more could have been squeezed into this movie. I could've cared less about Peters parents or secret history/destiny.

As well and good as Peter, Gwen, Spidey, and the other characters are...it's like they decided to handle the villains in the most cartoonish, hammy, cheesy way possible - all on purpose. Every time a character started hamming it up (in whatever fake Russian, or weird accent) I was taken out the movie. Hoping the scene would end and shift back to what I really wanted to see; Spidey. My suspicion is, is that they didn't want kids to be scared by the bad-guys so they purposely made them cartoony. Completely over the top cartoony. It really ruins any tension they had on the movie.

I wish Harry had a longer arc. I liked the Pete and Harry scenes, and I would have loved to see Peter have another friend in his life for more time. It was weird seeing Harry arrive, get sick, get really sick, get crazy all in about 45 minutes.

I really disliked the fight audience scenario that kept showing up. Turning Spider-man's fights into entertainment for New Yorkers just seems wrong. And it kills the tension. I mean, I get it that in a busy city, there are going to be bystanders watching and getting in the way. After a fight, people should cheer him on. While it's fine using average citizens getting caught up in the moment of a the fight, or being used for tension, it's another having the people, stand behind barricades just to watch the fight, as if it's a sports match. Uggg...they did this in SP3 and I really hated it there too.

On a minor note, as this applies to this movie and others, I'm guess I'm just getting sick and worn out on CGI Fight/Stuntmen. There's no weight (physically and dramatically) to the fights. I don't even think Spider-man got any damage to his body. Except when he fell to the ground, and was Garfield again, the fights just felt over the top as well. This style has been happening more and more, but it was this movie, while watching it play out that it really hit me in the theater. SP1 fight with Goblin felt like a real knock out fight. I'm sure there was cg used there too, but Peter walked away with some bruises. His suit ripped to shreds. Despite being Spider-man, the fight took a toll on him.

Overall it's not Batman & Robin bad, or even Spider-man 3 bad. Not even close. It's so unfortunate, because there are some great characters here and some terrific actors doing good work and some great scenes and good effect work by some very talented creatives. And I know that Jaime Fox & Paul Giamatti are great actors too, I love a lot of their work, their talents just seemed so wasted here. (On purpose)

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:44 PM   #92
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I think it would have helped. Honestly though I feel like this movie is also an introduction to Electro. It's not the end all be all of his character arc. If he comes back in the Sin Six they could expand his characterization more and really emulate the comics better.
that is true , if Jamie does reappear as Electro, it would be perfect to develop and flesh out Max's personality more in the next movie.

How Max Dillon is shown pre transformation was a group effort, the blame goes around between Jamie, Mark and his make up artists.

It is a pretty decent set up for Electro's character arc if he does reappears and can be a more serious villain and used as a more clear cut villain but although pre Max Dillon was more simplistic and more cartoony/campy, Electro's character as a whole was pretty faithful to some of the versions of Electro I have read although they should have done more to fleshed out his character. I agree I hated the comb-over but I would have at least kept the gap in. I did enjoy his visual transformation into Electro(I'm watching Electro's debut episode in Spectacular Spider-Man as we speak/post).

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:18 PM   #93
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Maybe I was a little harsh on ASM because the whole concept of redoing the origin naturally drew comparisons to the Raimi films. Perhaps I would have liked it better had there never been prior Spider-Man films. Unfortunately, I'll never have the luxury of knowing.

ASM2 is just a terrible film. It would have sucked even if the Raimi films never existed.
Exactly.

To sum up why this film is terrible all on its own comparing it to nothing... There were NO character motivations that made any sense. Every villain is cheesy and underdeveloped. They rushed to create a Goblin ONLY to deliver what we saw happen to Gwen. Peter comes across as a genuine tool and not a loveable hero. No subplot came even close to making sense. There was no humor that hit the mark (Not even one giggle from the audience I saw it with). The slo-mo effects looked like a video game cut scene. Even that video game action was spaced out to the point where 80% of the film is bad exposition and dialogue. Personally, I also feel that Peter and Gwen had little to no real chemistry.

THAT is why I hate this film.

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:41 PM   #94
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Exactly.

To sum up why this film is terrible all on its own comparing it to nothing... There were NO character motivations that made any sense. Every villain is cheesy and underdeveloped. They rushed to create a Goblin ONLY to deliver what we saw happen to Gwen. Peter comes across as a genuine tool and not a loveable hero. No subplot came even close to making sense. There was no humor that hit the mark (Not even one giggle from the audience I saw it with). The slo-mo effects looked like a video game cut scene. Even that video game action was spaced out to the point where 80% of the film is bad exposition and dialogue. Personally, I also feel that Peter and Gwen had little to no real chemistry.

THAT is why I hate this film.
That's why multiple villains didn't work, because they over stuffed the movie, bogged it down, and made the movie feel like an incoherent mess that had no flow or focus. It was all over the place.

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:49 PM   #95
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Peter/Spider-Man: Perfect, great acting and story again. Loved his real scenes while really liking his Spidey scenes. He pulls of the comedy and action a billion times better than Tobey. Aunt May was awesome, especially that bedroom scene.

Gwen: Beautiful, funny, and stunning. Love how she and Peter benefit each other...

Electro: Looked cool but characterization was atrocious. I didn't really expect more than that, though.

Harry/GG: Harry was awesome, wish we got more of his relationship with Peter (especially the deleted scenes about Oscorp stalking Peter. His GG though was alright, but anything is better than SM3, snowboard thing. Felt rushed and should have been in the third film, let their friendship grow and then fall.

Rhino: Was decent for a mere cameo and action fluff. Little too corny but most Spidey villains just are...

Story/Plot/etc: Felt very reactionary but the relationship stuff was A+. I'd joke, if you got rid of the action in this series, you'd have one of the best romantic comedies ever. It's fun to watch those guys improv-convo off each other.

Bonus: Parker's parents stuff was interesting, as close as the can get to canon without being under the real Marvel Banner...

The action was so wonderful and pretty. Love seeing a Spider-Man that actually is smooth, creative, and interesting while flying and fighting.

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Old 05-04-2014, 07:22 PM   #96
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-My Review

I can't express enough just how outstanding Andrew Garfield is as Spider-Man! He now joins the likes of Christopher Reeve and Robert Downey Jr. for perfectly portraying an iconic super hero. Hearing Garfield playfully quip throughout the runtime as the famed web slinger is a geeks dream come true. What Macguire always lacked in the first trilogy was a distinct difference between Peter Parker and Spider-Man, but Garfield makes sure that Peter wears his heart on his sleeve, and reserves the bravado for the web head.

The love story director Marc Webb introduced last time with the fantastic Emma Stone as brainy and beautiful Gwen Stacy is back, but unlike any relationship displayed in comic book movies thus far this one is meaningful (likely due to the real off-screen chemistry of Garfield and Stone). Some people may go into this movie expecting the villains to be the main attraction, but it's clear that this film is the story of Peter and Gwen set in the chaotic world of Spider-Man.

What about the villains? Well the central antagonist is Max Dillon/Electro, played serviceably by Jamie Foxx. I say "serviceably" because Electro is just like Loki in AVENGERS, simply there to be an entertaining foe for our hero to overcome and clearly not a Ledger like Joker. Electro looks awesome and the encounters between Spidey and "sparkles" are straight from a comic book splash page. Even though there's not much depth given to Electro just like Tom Hiddleston's take on Loki in AVENGERS, I'm able to feel empathy towards Max and I credit the talent of Foxx for that.

The last main character is Harry Osborn, played with excellent charm and intensity by Dane Dehan. Dehan is able to bring his always wonderful talent for villainy seen previously in his breakout role from CHRONICLE. Veteran actor Chris Cooper is introduced as ailing Norman Osborn, and in one scene between Cooper and Dehan the infamous Osborn father/son dynamic is demonstrated terrifically.

Peters quest for answers about his mysterious parents is finally resolved, making the first film stronger when revisited. The overall theme of this film is the concept of time. Peter didn't get more time with his parents, Uncle Ben and now theirs never enough time to be Spider-Man and still find enough time to be Peter Parker.

Now I need to address The Rhino (played briefly by Paul Giamatti) we only actually see him for a few minutes. The man who will become Rhino has a few more moments of screen time but he isn't meant to be another main character, merely a nod to a simple foe appearing in a Spider-Man story. A nice change of pace in the genre because not every "bad guy" requires a backstory in a superheroes world.

This movie isn't THE DARK KNIGHT where the villain outshines the hero, thankfully here the hero outshines the villains because in a superhero movie the "hero" should be the best part. THE DARK KNIGHT is a great dramatic film but terrible Batman film, simply because Batman is not the most interesting person on screen and always should be. In the AVENGERS, Marvel knew to make "earths mightiest heroes" the main focus never making Loki more interesting than the heroes. In this movie we see Spider-Man taking time to save real people. One scene sees Spidey protect a young boy from being attacked by bullies, and that is what being Spider-Man is all about.

Famed composer Hanz Zimmer has brought a very good score offering a distinct new theme for our hero, but if I had one gripe it's that the overall score could connect the scenes much better.

Webb balances the several different tones of this film very carefully, and his direction is perfect in the moments that matter most. The world building for future films may at times make this sequel cramped, but overall it's handled great and will allow the much needed depth required for a fully realized Spider-Man movie universe.

Not everyone will enjoy this film and that's fine because all I care about is seeing Spidey done justice, with this installment the longtime comic book readers finally have what just may be the definitive version of Spider-Man. No matter what happens in Peter's life he must continue to endure and protect the innocent. This movie is a stellar part 2 of a 3 part story about the life of Peter Parker. Funny, daring, emotional and thrilling this is the best Spider-Man movie made so far.

5 out 5 Stars

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Old 05-04-2014, 07:26 PM   #97
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrooksgohan View Post
LOL. It's amazing you say that because FYI I am a professional actor. Just because your under contract that means you don't have a say. That's not true. Good directors collaborate.
Good directors do collaborate, but they don't have to agree. An actor's job is to bring a character to life, the director's tell them how best to do so. The director is the captain of the ship, what he says goes. Webb didn't have to approve Foxx's look just because that's what he wanted. If he believed it interfered with his vision, than his vision takes the priority, not the request. Good directors are perfectionists.


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Old 05-04-2014, 08:14 PM   #98
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 5

Just got back from my second viewiing of the film, second time being in a conventional theater first in an IMAX. I gave it a 7.5/10 a lot of flaws overall still enjoyed it, here is my video review show Epic Film Review of the film.

http://youtu.be/YGWLv31U_6k

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Old 05-04-2014, 08:24 PM   #99
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 5

9 outta 10..this was a great an solid spidey film. my new favorite. Enjoyed everyone and everything in it. i love this series so far! Garfield = Spiderman. electro gwen harry i enjoyed it all.

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Old 05-04-2014, 08:32 PM   #100
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Default Re: The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - User Review Thread! - SPOILERS! - Part 5

[QUOTE=Joe_Kickass;28678817]Good directors do collaborate, but they don't have to agree. An actor's job is to bring a character to life, the director's tell them how best to do so. The director is the captain of the ship, what he says goes. Webb didn't have to approve Foxx's look just because that's what he wanted. If he believed it interfered with his vision, than his vision takes the priority, not the request. Good
directors are perfectionists.[/
QUOTE]

Are you involved in film and entertainment? If not....then its kind of hard for you to say that without real experience. Thats not how it works.....

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